I agree that every little puddle may be leased up... But that sure doesn't mean it gets hunted..
Also not picking on you or anything , just happens you say stuff I like to quote and give my opinion on lol


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Not taking any offense to it what so ever. I think one thing we can all agree on is we would like to try a different configuration for duck season.


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You obviously don't have much experience hunting rice fields if you think that "bullseye" means anything to a duck.


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You can wiggle the dates and zones around all you want. If you don't get the big freeze north of LA the ducks just don't come down like they would if it did. Plenty of food and moving water. Why would they leave that?

EDIT: I'm not saying the dates and zones don't need to be changed. I'm just not blaming that on my below average season.

Zones vs splits
 

In a state with very different large-scale habitat types, like NE vs SW Louisiana, zones are always a better choice than splits. There is no need for hunters in NE LA to have early hunting days to satisfy the guys in SW LA, AND there is no need for SW LA to have later days, when they have such good success earlier in the season, to satisfy the hunters in NE LA.

On a small scale, splits may seem better, and with 60-day seasons it doesn't make a lot of difference. But zones are a better choice, especially when season length is reduced, as Tucan pointed out.

Lastly, frameworks are not likely to be set later anytime soon. The wintering grounds serve a need for the migratory waterfowl resource beyond providing opportunity to shoot them. The shooting has to stop sometime so birds can survive, regain body weight, start pre-basic molt, and prepare for the migration north. Paired birds do that more effectively, and there is a cost of losing a mate late in winter. We also know from radio-telemetry studies that after mid-January, nothing kills a duck except hunters. Not predators, not starvation, not collisions with wires like earlier in the season. So hunting mortality after mid-January is shooting into the breeding stock; it is not compensatory mortality.

Southern hunters have been complaining that the season closes too early for decades, maybe longer. My first exposure was in the classic 1964 book, "Waterfowl Tomorrow" where starting on page 683 "A Letter to a Hunter" details the regular complaint. And in those days, the season closed closer to the first Sunday in January rather than the last.

Know that the proposed season dates for 2016-17 were presented at the January Commission meeting (I saw someone posted a link), and you have the opportunity to comment until the April Commission meeting when they will be finalized. Changes can be made at the February and March meetings before the final approval in April.

Excellent point, and the foundation of my support for traditional dates in the Coastal Zone. In 2014, we set the seasons a week later, and we got a very early freeze pushing the birds into the state such that our November survey was the highest since 1995. In 2015, we set the season a week earlier, and the warm weather and excessive flooding up and down the flyway reduced our number of birds.

Leave the dates alone and just deal with the annual variation in weather and habitat conditions. The harvest data clearly show that on average, we kill lots of ducks in the Coastal Zone in November, and noticeably fewer by late-January (both total and birds/hunter). There is no magic formula to maximize kill every year, and no way to satisfy everyone every year.

Hell, our hunter-opinion surveys show those hunters who have hunted the longest, hunt the most, and kill the most ducks are the LEAST satisfied. But they won't quit.

Tough crowd .........

To answer the focal question of this thread:

I hunt the Coastal Zone and prefer:
Open the second Saturday in November and run for 3 weeks.
12-day split.
Re-open and run until 1 week before the end of the framework.

HA.. if you only had a clue.


you have no argument here.. good day sir

Explain


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so in other words... the same way it has been since waaaaaaaaaay before we ever thought about a coastal zone....

how do you need an explanation for this?


do you honestly think a blind in a field that looks like a bullseye is better than a field that is totally opened up?

No. Maybe I misunderstood what the first guy was trying to say. It happens.

What I understood was that he was saying that that hole in the stubble constituted the only duck "habitat" in that field.


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Mr. Reynolds thank you very much for thoughts and feedback, you have always been transparent and honest.

I understand the reasoning behind ending the season by mid-January, thank your for explaining.

The reason I was proposing one zone was to have 3 splits and the ability to hunt until the end on January. I believe hunters as a whole would benefit from a early November to the end of January season, but as you explained the late January dates would be detrimental to our breeding stock.

If we can't hunt past mid January then I'm not sure about a 3 split season, with a 60 day season. Maybe we can all pledge to only shoot the Caitlyn Jenners or (non-breeders) for the last two weeks of January.

What's your thoughts on allowing Speck hunting during the split?

I think hunter numbers have something to do with our bird numbers also. The southwest part of the state is so crowded with hunters I think a lot of birds don't come anymore. And the ones that do either find refuge real quick or leave soon after arrival. With years like this when we have a mild winter the few birds here it takes a weather change to move them off their refuge sit to your blind. I'm not sure many people realize the vast acreage of ag land and food source not a very far drive north of here, with a lot less pressure, that even a cold winter won't effect. I just hope it isn't a trend.

Personally I would prefer to have no zones but that's not going to happen. Other than that I would like more days in the first split rather than the second split. On our lease (we have hunted the same area over 20 yrs) our hunting really falls off the latter part of January.

After opening weekend, the see geese the bulls eye and start rising as soon as they get in the cut. That is a absolute certainty C-Goods!!! By the 3rd week of season the ducks will do the same.

I cant complain about this year hunting, it was one of the best years I have had in while

Those were the dates for the old West Zone since the onset of 60-day seasons (19 years), so they don't go that far back. But the second Saturday in November opening date has been the most common opening date since 1930 with the first Saturday a close second. We've generally only opened later when the season dates were 45 days or less. Until 2002, we never went later than Jan. 20.

When we split the old West Zone into a Coastal Zone and a West Zone it was the WEST ZONE that saw some changes, NOT the Coastal Zone. NOTHING changed for hunters in the Coastal Zone except the name of their zone. So the Coastal Zone ain't nothing new regulations-wise.

Agreed. Crawfish ponds are not favorable duck or goose habitat. I have seen ducks and geese use crawfish ponds, but not often. I had a camp by a crawfish pond last year, and the geese would come in a big wave usually mid day. If you hunted it you had 1 shot and that was it. As far as the bullseye thing, that is absolutely the truth. Birds avoid that like the plague. More hunters is NOT a good thing for hunting. Regardless of how much habitat you have, if they are consistently pressured (which they are) they WILL leave and find somewhere else to be. Wouldnt anyone? Also, i think the blind per acre ratio has sky rocketed over the past 10 years. Not a good thing at all

We did that in 2014 when the Commission set the Coastal Zone season dates a week later than we recommended. So instead of allowing the goose season to open with the youth hunt, we put 7 days of goose hunting in the 12-day split. I got a LOT of complaints from both goose hunters that wanted to hunt the Conservation Order during the split, and duck hunters that didn't like the goose hunters disturbing the ducks during the split. That's my only experience with it.

I've heard that the Commission, or at least a Commissioner, is going to propose adding 7 days to the goose season proposal to allow 88 days (the maximum offered by the USFWS) instead of 81. Because the season already runs to the end of the framework, those extra 7 days will have to be either in the split or in the front, so the goose season will open with the youth hunt. That has been the situation in the East Zone for many years, so I think I'd rather do that than put the days in the split.

How did that work out this year, when we had 4 weeks in the first split instead of 3?

I never get to hunt the first week in December because I represent the MS Flyway at the Harvest Management Working Group meeting. So, I don't have a good feel for it, and of course, it's only 1 year anyway.

Larry, I know about the 3 zones proposed for next year and the changes. Will the goose limits and dates be statewide again?

Because of the longer season (81 instead of 74 days), and the apparent desire of the Commission to synchronize the split as they did this past year, we have proposed for a very similar statewide season for 2016-17. We created goose zones in case we have to drop back to 74 days because of population decline or the Commission decides to go with 74/3 instead of 81/2 or 88/2. In those cases we would probably open the North Zone earlier and the South Zone later. But for now, it's statewide.

We took a little heat from Todd Masson at NOLA.com for not sticking to our 74-day/3-bird recommendation that we made in August in his article at: http://www.nola.com/outdoors/index.s...ly_propos.html

That was my call based on 1) the discussion/outcome at last August's meeting gave little indication that 74/3 would pass this year, and 2) the only new information since that August meeting was the fall staging survey in SK, which showed a 4% decline in WFG populations.

The first 2 weeks of the season were our best hunting. The entire first split was better than the second split. Also, I wasn't suggesting opening earlier than the second Saturday, just have more days in the first split.

Why does the E Side hunt until January 31st when the LDWF knows hunting into late January hurts the breeding stock?

This was pretty much how our season went. I was pretty skeptical about opening as early as it did, but it worked for outer lease. Second split was pretty much a crap shoot. Some days the birds were thick, other days we were watching coot and blackbirds. I think the warm weather and high water played a major part. I would definitely like to see a longer 1st split.

Thanks for the info!

I understand. I struggled with that in making the 2016-17 proposals. In August, the Commission moved the opener to the first Saturday in November AND put 4 weeks in the first split. Since nothing has changed since August with regard to duck regulations, I considered proposing the same structure but with a second Saturday opener. However, with a 12-day split, that would put us opening the second season on Christmas Eve and having the season closed when all the kids get out of school for Christmas break. That left me the choice of accepting that or using a 3-week first season, or a 5-day split and closing the second season on January 15 instead of the 22nd. So we decided to go with the traditional 3-week first season, a 12-day split, and running to Jan. 22.

How about north south zone like 190 to split the zones. Open south zone 2nd weekend or 3rd weekend of November and run a straight 60 days?

Because the USFWS allows it, the duck population is at high levels, hunters want it, and the East Zone has traditionally closed on the last day of the framework. As you have seen from the harvest data, a fairly small % of our season kill comes from the last 2 weeks in January (about 15%), so the risk to the population is small. When the population declines to the point that we have to restrict hunting regulations, the closing framework date also goes back to the Sunday closest to Jan. 20 instead of the current last Sunday in January.

Also remember that the last time the framework was extended to allow earlier hunting in the northern states and later in the southern states, it was done via legislative action (an add-on to an appropriations bill) not through the cooperative flyway-based regulatory process.

Our state does not have major habitat divisions north and south; our major habitat division are east and west. NW LA is very different from NE LA. That is why we have had West and East Zones since the very first day that states were allowed to use zones (1975). Our configuration is not new, unjustified, or made up on a whim; it is long established based on major habitat differences that tend to influence chronology of duck use.

North-south zones puts the Piney Woods and reservoirs in the same zone as the Mississippi Alluvial Valley, and recall the harvest data that shows NW LA has an earlier harvest signature than even the coastal marshes. That is why the 3rd zone was put in NW LA. In case you don't remember, here is the harvest chronology breakdown from a 10-year period when the old West Zone had consistent season dates:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...harvest202.jpg

What if we'd go back to east and west zones and keep the sixty day season starting on the second weekend in November.


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That's what we had from 1975 to 2012, which include the "good ole days" for most here. So why did we change in 2012?

1) Because hunters in NW LA wanted to set seasons separate from those along the coast, 2) it would allow more flexibility in targeting hunting regulations to particular habitat types, and 3) it would provide additional hunting opportunity, especially if the season length was reduced.

Unfortunately, we found out that although hunters in NW LA did indeed want DIFFERENT season dates from coastal hunters, some of them wanted LATER dates and some of them wanted EARLIER dates. The devil is always in the details, and maybe we should just go back to the pre-2012 structure.

So why are we changing again in 2016?

Because the rice industry wants additional time to get their second-crop out and the fields prepared for hunting before the season opens; and many rice-field hunters want later seasons. So we moved the zone boundaries so that much of the rice-growing portions of Jefferson Davis, Acadia, Evangeline, and Vermilion Parishes are now in the East Zone. I'm not convinced this was a good move. That rice acreage is clearly of coastal origin, it is part of the Coastal Prairies and Marshes ecotype, and the birds of SW LA use both marsh and rice-fields as components of the same wetland complex. Yes, the further north you go, the less that interaction with the marsh occurs, but those rice fields are definitely more closely tied to coastal habitat than the Mississippi Alluvial Valley.

But we will see .........

For what it's worth, if I can't have 3 splits then I want exactly what your proposing. Honestly, part of the reason I want 3 splits is to catch up on honey do's and family time.

Open second weekend of Nov, 12 day split then longer second split.

I know the birds get spooky late second split but it's become another variable or challenge of duck hunting I have come to enjoy.

Thanks again for all your feedback.

there is no sense in trying to hunt all throughout February, I under stand that there is a lot of ducks after the season but people don't realize that a lot of those birds are just ones coming out of the refuges, open second weekend of November and close last of January, plain in simple, the ducks were here last year and they will be here next, this year was just a bad year due to having a lot of water and no weather

Well said


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I don't recall anyone within this thread asking to hunt thru February???

See post #14-25-39

The first week of our season was awesome this year, but after that the duck numbers declined big time. Until, about 3 weeks ago they showed back up, and today while goose hunting I seen the most ducks I seen all year. The longer the season can last the better I think. This is similar every year in rice fields south welsh, the end of season duck hunting gets better

You are correct, I must have missed the fine print.