Ummm, alright I said I was going to ignore y'all and I will after I ask this one little question. So for the ATF or whoever to roll up at your house to take your weapons I am pretty sure there would have to be a new amendment to the constitution repealing the second amendment. I know being proud libertarians you guys must know what it takes to pass an amendment to the constitution. So this country who has beenn 50/50 Dem/Rep or Con/Lib for pretty much its entire existence all of a sudden becomes 75/25 and starts ratifying the constitution? For what? I think 60 senators have favorable ratings with the NRA. Its just not gonna happen. You guys need to find a new boogie man. Alright, I out.

I buy all my guns off the street in the hood so the govt doesn't know I have any.

I get mine at gun shows. No background check. I got too many parking tickets to get one at shooters.

I was told by a salesman at Lafayette Shooters that after your background check clears the paperwork is destroyed. Was that bs?

Maybe shooters destroys your paper work but the FBI don't.

permanent ban
 

The NICS is required by federal law to destroy the background check request within 24hrs, the dealer has to keep the record for 20 years unless he goes out of business, if they do then they have to send all the records to the ATF.

Form 4473 is what contains the serial number and detailed firearm information, but isn't what is supplied to the NICS. The NICS gets your personal information via phone call normally and simply runs a check then comes back and says yes, no or maybe; the conversation if whether you bought or not isn't had, the FFL logs the outcome on his form 4473 which is kept in house as mentioned above. All the NCIS gets is what type of gun you are trying to buy (I.e. Rifle, handgun, etc...).

Now, if your gun turns up in a bust or a crime scene it is absolute possible to track it down, but it doesn't happen by a LEO just sending the serial number to someone and them running it and you're name turning up... Manufacturers are required to keep a record of which guns were sold to which FFL's, the LEO then gets that information from the manufacturer and gets in touch with the FFL that took possession. The FFL, being that he has the 20 year record, is required to turn over his log on that weapon. If someone tried to buy it and got denied, then the FFL will have that 4473 associated with the weapon along wth your record and anyone else that tried to buy it and got denied or backed out. Now the LEO conducting the investigation has your information, and keeps running the lead as far as the paper trail allows - THIS is why you should get a bill of sale signed when selling your gun to someone privately if a.) you bought it from an FFL, or b.) you were subjected to a bill of sale when buying from a guy in the hood.

Gun shops would have to turn over the millions and millions of paper copy 4473's for the fed to have a database pointing to folks that bought. Further, this portion of the law would have to be amended in order to allow the records to be searched by name.

Gun store clerks rarely go far when they call in, feel free to listen and question, I have and never once heard them give a serial number, make or model, and they've never sent the 4473.

You are correct that the information is supposed to be destroyed and not kept, cataloged and maintained. The government has proven so trustworthy in the past so there's nothing to worry about right? Your information is correct I'm just asking what basis do we have to trust them? Any of them.

permanent ban
 

What information are you scared of? The bit that I mentioned about the NICS not knowing what gun you are inquiring about? Or the bit about the FFL never notifying anyone of what gun you inquired about? Or the bit about the manufacturer not even knowing what gun you inquired about? Or did the FFL clerk text the ATF my serial number when I left?

The NICS does not even know if you bought the gun, did you overlook that part of the post? You can run a ackground check and change your mind and walk out, NICS doesn't care.

You think all these small town FFLs would be violating the Brady bill by sending your purchase information to the NICS and/or ATF behind your back? How about the NRA? You think the NRA wouldn't have said something if serial numbers were linked to your information during background checks, then potentially stored?

Jesus Christ

Ruby Ridge, Waco Texas and then that guy from the group of cattle owners that got gunned down. Was that Oregon? I'm not quit sure. I have no reason to trust the government. That guys name is eluding me right now. If you watch the drone footage enough it's pretty clear he wasn't going for a gun. He grabbed his side because he took a bullet while posing no threat. Someone got trigger happy. If your weapon in on your side you don't draw it with both hands. You draw it with your carry side hand and transition to a two hand grip while bringing your sights to the target. He went from hands up to grabbing his right side with both hands then was shot down. He wasn't drawing a gun. He got hit by a hollowpoint.

Calm down. I know I got tracked down some 13 years after I bought a gun. Just saying when was the last time you had a reason to trust the government? Wasn't trying to start anything. Just food for thought.

Kent State. The government really helped there.

Cliven Bundy


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I don't need food for thought, I'm privy to the conspiracy theories and instead of just going with them I do research and understand the basis of them. Then, like in this case, actually go out and talk to the guys and test the process.

Go buy a gun, talk to your local FFL and tel me how they magically got your gun information.

Thanks.

when the congress , the president , local government or your next door neighbor does something wrong and it goes into litigation .Who has the final say in the matter? The U.S. Supreme Court.
Right now we are one justice short and there are 3 more that are soon to go. So the next president will be appointing 3 or 4 justices. If hillary gets elected then that will swing the court to an ultra liberal majority. So when she mandates gun control the end result is that the supreme court will uphold her mandate.
Just like the president ,the supreme court has forgotten that their job is to interpret laws not to write them.

Well I am pretty sure Trump isn't going to beat her so looks like the parties over. I am not thrilled about the prospect of either being in office. Its like what brand of $hit smells better, dog or cat? Even if she does win and appoints 3 liberal justices what are they gonna do? Ban high capacity assault weapons more than likely. I just don't see them being able to do much else.

Im making a killing on my tin foil investments. Keep up the good work.

If the president by decree decides to ban all civilians from owning fire arms and a liberal supreme court up holds the presidential decree. See Australia .
Then the only way the American public will keep any weapons is by force. the same force the government will use to take them.

Lol. I must be living in a total state of naivety.

Yep. I don't understand why some people have such a hard time understanding that. Once they gain control they will do as they wish.

Because we don't live in Cuba or Venezuela. You guys seriously need to lay off the Fox News and maybe take a civics class.

This might be the worst thread in SC history.

really? maybe you were living under a rock the last 8 years but Obama has gone and done things that are clearly and to the letter "unconstitutional" and things he has no authority or power to do yet they were done just the same because "they wanted to do it" so since when has violating the constitution stopped them yet? "congress wont act so I will" remember this new "law"

Name some of these things that wet unconstitutional

"I don't have insurance and they can force me to get it when I'm dead and gone!", never protests or does anything to impact the outcome, then gets insurance the next year.

How is that?? People debateing facts that will not only effect you and me but probably our grandkids too!! It's happened in la. Not to long ago, why would you think it could not happen again??

The far right conspiracy theorists are the exact same as the far left liberals but they can't see it.

I couldn't hardly find a 22 or 223 Buckley for over a year:work:

" and all those executive orders"!!!!!:rotfl:

This is true, but the far left is in all the schools brain washing kids and young adults. On a mass scale.
just read mg. Post he's an older man that almost fell into there trap..
you put a frog in boiling water what happens it jumps out, same frog in cold water and heat it to a boil you get a dead frog. It real people just look at what we did as kids on our own, that you would go to jail for if you let your kid do it now days.

"You are out of you element Donnie"

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...bb8c2814b4.jpg

It's been proven time and time again throughout history. If you want to rule with an iron fist one of the first steps is disarming the populace. I would wager that every country it ever happened in the people said"that won't happen here."

You don't think the far right folks are indoctrinating their kids and others as well?:rotfl:

It is the exact same thing. You just can't see the forest for the trees

Not to sharp shoot you again but Presidents in the US issue Executive Orders. Historically Kings, Popes, Emperors they issues the decrees. Executive orders are orders given by the president to enforce the laws passed by congress. Therefore, congress has the right to veto an executive order. If read one of my early post I said that even some Democrats have favorable ratings from the NRA.

So say she is elected, she just can't invent a law, thats not how our government works. Obama did not just say you are now on Obamacare Abra ca Dabra. Charles Rangle, sponsored the Affordable Care Act and brought it to the floor of the house. Both the house and senate approved it and he signed it into law. Someone challenged a provision of it in federal court and the Supreme Court upheld it as Constitutional. Hillary cannot just abolish the second amendment by snapping her fingers. Are you guys really thinking this is a possibility? That is mind-blowing.

I am a gun owner, in now way would I want to lose that right but nothing any politician Democrat or Republican has ever said would lead me to think there was some master plan to repeal the second amendment. Do you know what it takes to repeal an amendment? It will never happen, ever ever ever.

Seriously man you seem halfway educated. Do you honestly believe the absolute $hit you spew. Your mouth has a case of the kinda of diarrhea you get in India. If the government wanted to rule with an iron fist you and every other Gaston flag waving nut job could have the entire Soviet arsenal at your disposal and it would do you about as much good as a bowl of noodles. You would all be dead within a matter of seconds depending on where you were in Jim Bobs backyard bunker. Do you think civilians could mount a defense against a federal trained and funded force. Have you ever seen the FBI HRT? Those guys go through Marine Corps Sniper School and make Force Recon and Scout Snipers look like girl scouts. Get real.

Exactly. An executive order is nothing new. It's too enforce laws that are already in place. The potus can not just come up with some new law with an executive order. I have found that the people that are the loudest in calling others uninformed are usually very uninformed as well. They would fail civics

"Donny was a good bowler, and a good man. He was one of us. He was a man who loved the outdoors... and bowling, and as a surfer he explored the beaches of Southern California, from La Jolla to Leo Carrillo and... up to... Pismo. He died, like so many young men of his generation, he died before his time. In your wisdom, Lord, you took him, as you took so many bright flowering young men at Khe Sanh, at Langdok, at Hill 364. These young men gave their lives. And so would Donny. Donny, who loved bowling. And so, Theodore Donald Karabotsos, in accordance with what we think your dying wishes might well have been, we commit your final mortal remains to the bosom of the Pacific Ocean, which you loved so well.
Good night, sweet prince."

duckman is pretty much just like Walter, "Everything is a travesty"

I feel bad for people who don't go and get their own information, and just sit and take what's given to them.

It's funny that the far left is absolutely appalled at the way gun background checks are run and the fact that here is no searchable database, yet the far right is u der tin foil hats because they swear the far left is keeping a gun registry.

Whats funny to me is that most liberals are relatively meek and typically aren't really assertive (men the men are at least) yet nothing strikes fear into the hear of red blooded American men on the right like the sound of a vegetarians voice. I think its because talk radio has such a devoted following that when Limbaugh and Hannity start on their talking points by the drive home most of them are in a frenzy. If you listen to any one on right wing radio they don't even pretend to be the least bit objective but they don't need to be they are preaching to a very big and devoted choir. Really how much does a football coach have to say to whip the troops into a frenzy. All this BS is rooted in an agenda that benefits a very specific group of people. On both the left and the right there are some high level puppet masters who stoke the fire and reap the benefits. The average Ditto Head can't see that, neither can a Bernie Voter. I think most of this country is in the middle about most things. I wish we had a political process that represented the middle and didn['t have a set agenda. You can believe in gun control and be against abortion. Its ludicrous.

Again true but it's just in there kids, not 100000's of kids that are so far in debt before they finish school that they have no other then to vote for government help!!

Do your kids carry a shotgun to school with them in there car/truck?? Cause I know we did!! and we had fights in the parking lot but no one ever Tryed pulling a gun. Cause we all had them. Now jump 30 years, your kids and you would be in jail!! So how's it not just the water heating up so you don't see what's coming?? Not saying it's all just this election or him or her getting elected. It's what's eating this country IMO.

[QUOTE=Marque;806145]Seriously man you seem halfway educated. Do you honestly believe the absolute $hit you spew. Your mouth has a case of the kinda of diarrhea you get in India. If the government wanted to rule with an iron fist you and every other Gaston flag waving nut job could have the entire Soviet arsenal at your disposal and it would do you about as much good as a bowl of noodles. You would all be dead within a matter of seconds depending on where you were in Jim Bobs backyard bunker. Do you think civilians could mount a defense against a federal trained and funded force. Have you ever seen the FBI HRT? Those guys go through Marine Corps Sniper School and make Force Recon and Scout Snipers look like girl scouts. Get real.[/QUOT
It's funny to me. They other day you said I was so entrenched in my mindset that there was no room for compromise. Three posts later you say nothing will change your mind on this subject. Well it seems you're in your own trench.

really? what was that thing about Obama ignoring the constitution and separation of powers by going around congress and "by executive order" make all illegals in this country citizens because so where was this existing law that Obama was enforcing? there was none, he was writing his own new laws to do as he wished, just as dictators do when no one can oppose them because those who would object and want to follow the law have no power to restrain him

I pray for people like you that one day, they might become enlightened and will wake up and see how clueless and willfully blind they are

I heard Obama is gonna ban drinking water ,saw it on Facebook

Some people feel better believing it's all rainbows, butterflies and bunnies. If their head is in the sand they feel safe. You can't fight that man. We'd still be bowing to the crown if they had their way.

Not the drinking water from Chicago. It has special stuff in it.lol

Thanks for that tip pox. I just bought 20,000 shares of smart water! No more oilfield for me!

So all illegals are now citizens? :rotfl:

There is this thing called checks and balances. And if you haven't noticed, republicans control both the house and senate

Do you remember a few years ago when the republicans cleaned house during the elections? Their stance was that they wee going to repeal Obamacare and all this other great stuff? How's that working out again?

That's not working at all. The reblican party is a failure but it's less of a failure than the democrat party. It sucks but it's how it is. Unfortunatly this is truelly a lesser of two evils election.

They are exactly the same