This^^, alcohol is much worse in my opinion, and its legal. It was once illegal however


"It's organic, don't panic" hahahaha

This is a classic case of "debates don't ever change a person's viewpoint, they only entrench people further in them".

The reasons behind the outcome of any political process or seldom simple or easily summarized, especially decades after the event when the more readily available histories have all been revised and doctored to influence contemporary decision making. I haven't looked hard enough into documentation closer to the original event to sort out likely contributing factors and their magnitude from the later revisions more motivated by desire for change.

Does whether or not gun control had racist origins impact the wisdom or rightness of current gun control efforts? The case for RKBA can be made from the 2nd amendment, from fundamental considerations of how liberty and political power should work in a Constitutional Republic, from the Bible, and from consideration of man's natural right to self-defense from tyrants and criminals.

Likewise, regardless of whether or not drug laws put in place many decades ago were influenced by ulterior motives and corporate money, the wisdom and rightness of each current drug law can be assessed and considered without depending on decades old history which may not be accurate. I've already stated my support for repealing most Federal drug laws, because (not involving interstate commerce), regulation via Federal legislation is an overreach of Federal power. Laws regulating possession, use, and intrastate transfers of drugs should be a state level issue, driven by the needs, values, and interests of each individual state. If the passing of the overreaching Federal laws was unduly influenced by competing fiber industries, then this is even more evidence that the matter should have been handled at the state level.

The case for the degree of regulation of any specific drug should be informed by all the available scientific evidence, by the expected impact and effects of the proposed regulation (or de-regulation) on the people of Louisiana, and by the values and moral compass of the people of Louisiana.

I am a proud graduate of Jefferson Parish public schools, and in my life attended pubic schools in Caddo, Plaquemines, Calcasieu, and East Baton Rouge Parishes.

I've also seen inside of schools in a number of other states as a parent and/or a teacher. Louisiana has some problems, to be sure. But one thing I consistently like about Louisiana schools is their tendency to honor parental wishes.

My experience is that if a Louisiana parent has a problem with a curricular issue like sex ed or evolution or whatever, the child will be excused. Likewise if a parent wants to keep a child out of an extracurricular activity due to an issue of conscience or as a behavioral consequence, Louisiana schools do not present a problem. Additionally, I could not imagine a Louisiana school giving a parent grief if they kept their child home for a few days having identified some safety threat at the school (bullying, harassment, drugs, etc.) Finally, Louisiana is very friendly to home schooling.

In contrast, my experience with schools in other states is that they want to be the arbiters of what is best for each child. If the school has decided on a sex ed or evolution curriculum, then the parent becomes the enemy for asking that their child be excused. If extra curriculars have a minimum academic requirement for participation, then a parent is somehow harming her child or the team by parental enforcement of higher academic requirements for participation. If a school decides their classrooms, locker rooms, and hallways are sufficiently safe from bullying, harassment, and drugs, then the parent becomes their enemy by suggesting otherwise. And other states are much more likely to view home schooling as a threat, either to their funding, their pride, or to their access to brainwashing children in liberal ideals.

The most egregious example was several years ago when a principal intended to fire me (a math teacher in the high school) for reporting to parents that their teenagers were discussing weekend drug use in my classroom and suggesting that the parents might drug test their children using widely available at home drug tests. (OK, she was also mad that I bought a bunch of drug test kits and offered to give them to parents.) What is the problem in a free society with a math teacher better empowering parents to maintain reasonable boundaries regarding drug use of their minor children? The principal thought that the training of school children regarding drug use was the sole province of the government and wanted to restrict rather than empower the role of parents. She was scared that a teenager might be spanked as a result of a positive drug test. Wow!

False dichotomy.

Mathgeek have you ever smoked weed?

No, unless you count second hand smoke at Mardi Gras. I inhaled. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

If you say so buddy....oh well I'm going fishing,peace out!

We hear a lot from those advocating the legalization of recreational and performance enhancing drugs that alcohol is legal and that marijuana is much more dangerous. Furthermore, we hear that prohibition (rather than the drugs themselves) is the cause of crime associated with illegal drugs.

There are several fallacies here that need exposing. First of all, the idea that even if alcohol were "more dangerous" that marijuana would then be "safe." First of all, there is not a one dimensional safety scale. A 0.1% blood alcohol level may impair motor control and driving more than a barely measurable THC content, but the technical challenges of determining and regulating what levels of THC content may impair driving is a bigger technical challenge. Colorado has legalized marijuana, but has not passed any limit on blood THC content with respect to driving. Somehow, I doubt allowing people in Colorado to drive with no limit to the amount of THC in their blood is going to make Colorado roads safer. Their 0.08 blood alcohol limit is strictly enforced.

Secondly, even while cannabis may not present the same long term health risks as alcohol, it presents even greater risks for dangerous sexual behavior (especially among teenagers) when compared with control groups who do not use cannabis. And we're not talking about just "fooling around" that is present in the lives of most teenagers. These studies document cannabis leading to much higher occurance of the riskiest behaviors (from a public health viewpoint): multiple partners, sex without condoms, anal sex, production of pornography (including minors), and predatory sexual behaviors, (sex without consent, greater age and experience differences between partners). Sure, alcohol abuse also has potential for risky sexual behaviors, but should this mean we legalize weed or that we better inform our teenagers and better enforce existing laws regarding access to both?

We've got plenty of dry counties and dry parishes in the south, and I don't see the prohibition of alcohol causing a lot of crime in those areas. Drugs (all types) have the potential to motivate both access crimes and consequence crimes. Marijuana and alcohol are both relatively inexpensive and easy to get for an adult with the right connections and a car. Most local crime and destructive behavior related to cannabis and booze are consequence issues: driving under the influence, risky sexual behavior (or no consent), domestic violence, firearms possession under the influence, and all the other stupd stuff men tend to do when drunk, high, or stoned.

One other big factor in my dislike for cannabis is the scientific fact that THC never leaves the brain. Unlike alcohol, which is metabolized from the body in a matter of hours, THC from every joint ever smoked will remain in the fat between your brain cells until you die. Brain function and cognitive abilities (IQ) have been shown to be imparied long after cannabis use has stopped, and these effects are even more pronounced for users under the age of 21, whose brains are still developping. Sure, there are occasionally great scientists who have been users (though there is no support for the assertion that Einstein was an opium abuser), but most students find the math and science of a normal college preparatory curriculum hard enough without the added impariment of cannabis.

It is also revealing what we don't hear from legalization advocates:

We do not hear that providing drugs to minors should remain a felony, as it is today. They make no effort to deny our reasonable inference that access to drugs by minors may become as easy and unrestricted as access to cigarettes and pornography are today.

We don't hear that insurers and employers should be at liberty to implement whetever level of drug testing they deem necessary to limit their risk.

We don't hear that (just like alcohol) blood THC limits can be established and strictly enforced to reduce the incidence and risks of people driving under the influence.

We don't hear that folks burdening the healthcare and welfare systems due to drug use and/or subsequent risky sexual behaviors should be denied care because they assumed the risks.

We don't hear that folks who lose their jobs due to drug abuse will be denied unemployment and welfare benefits.

We don't hear that mechanisms should be in place to ensure people do not use food stamps, medicare, or other government benefits to acquire drugs.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh.... where to start...

What will be affected by the legalization of weed. Well for one thing i know that your sense of paranoia is not going to affected by legalization, you already have that covered. As a matter of fact one of the purported side effects of OVERINDULGENCE in weed is a heightened level of paranoia.... Maybe your right MG... we really do need to keep you away from that stuff.

Because you... becoming any more paranoid, and conjecturing any more "chicken little sky is falling" fallacies.... man, now that's a scary thought!

I suppose your a hardcore dope fiend now. tell the truth MG... for 10 years after this accidental ingestation of the "devils" breath.. you went on a spree of stealing purses from little old lady's, it caused you to flunk out of and fail college, and you became a habitual child pornography connoisseur.

Yeah.. that sounds just about as likely as do all the world is going to end scenario's that you have laid out.

GREAT********>> however last time i checked your personal experiences do not trump scientific study.

Very true, and i can honestly assure you at about 1 page into this I realized there was no changing MG's mind.

However people reading through this who are either undecided, or uninformed, can reference the different statements and supporting evidence given throughout and thereby form their own opinion.

That's the hidden gem making every debate worthwhile.

When i was a scout leader ,we had a drug counselor volunteer to come in and talk to our cub scouts about the dangers of drugs. Once he started talking i realised that he was just quoting facts and figures that came from books.
The boys looked like they were bored out of their minds, so interrupted him and asked him, What real life experiences can you tell these boys
about the dangers of using drugs? he stated that he had never taken a drink or used any drugs in his life. I told him thank you and that he was no longer needed to speak at this time.
he lost it. Tried to explain that he knew all about how drugs worked and what they could do by studying books.
He left and 3 weeks later we had an addict who had lost his family and done prison time because of cocain come speak to the boys. He made his points and did it w/ purpose. The boys paid attention when he spoke and it seemed to me were absorbed in it.

Well Mathgeek you seem to have abandoned science, and instead are drawing solely on statement likes "in my experience" "i have seen" etc.

Certainly with the occasional link to a study by some deeply polarized group.

Since this is the path that you have chosen, I am going to take a little minute here to tell you about my experience. Let me give you my version of your "I have seen"

As i posted previously on this Forum, I recently had to put my mother in the hospital for an extended period. Happily she is home again now.

She suffer's from Alzheimer's disease. If your like i was 5 years ago you probably think of that in terms of "oh that's where you forget who people are and if they are related to you"

That's not an untrue statement. What a lot of people don't know, is that it get's much, much worse. You forget the meaning of signals that your body sends to your mind, signals like being hungry, need to use the restroom, what food should feel like as you swallow it, what drink should feel like.

From discussions with her doctor my "rough" understanding is that because all these things are "forgotten" they feel very odd each time the person does them, and as a result many patients choose not to do them.

That's why my mother was in the hospital, She stopped eating & drinking "everyone just assumed she was snacking when we were not looking) When we realized there was a major problem after about 2 weeks and took her to the hospital she was basically on deaths door. Dehydrated, lost almost 30lbs... etc.

We have known about her alzheimers for some time now, and she has been taking both namenda & aricept to "combat" the disease. Frankly they have done less than nothing. After many discussions with her doctor, and research on these two drugs the basic conclusion that you can come up with is that the medical community believes that both of these drugs do offer some benefit... but that they have been completely unable to measure that benefit at all. Bad news is that they do have some side effects as well.........

So just in the last two days (since mom's been home from hospital) (and since we have started this nice little community discussion) I have been doing a heck of a lot of internet searches on both alzheimer's and cannabis research.

Guess what the ONLY drugs worldwide are that have been SHOWN (MEDICALLY STUDIED) to not only combat further degeneration of the brain in alzheimers patients, but to actually reverse some of the brain degeneration in alzheimers patients. Yup they are Cannabinoids, which are the portions of the cannabis plant that are not THC... you know the other stuff that doesn't get you high.

From what i am seeing there has been extensive research done by the British http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190031/

And Israel http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...4#.Ug-0apLVWOs

Even gupta's recent documentary on weed discusses some of the above.
I provided a short link on each location to give you a short overview on what they are working on.

I called her doctor and inquired with him on this yesterday afternoon. I wanted to find out whether he knew of these studies and to get his opinion on them, and if it was a positive one would we be able to find a way to participate in them. I also asked him about a study on something called Sativex, which is a drug that another member here told me about being in trials in the US. He advised me that he was aware of the all the studies, and that Sativex was showing great promise for Alzheimer's, and other diseases of the brain. Sadly he informed me that there was no chance for my mother to be included in these studies as the State considers it a felony to make use of any portion of the cannabis plant. Whether the portions used are the pshyco-reactive ones or not. Whether its used for medical purposes or not. No use is allowed and punishments exceed what violent person on person crime receives.

So i'm curious, Is this medicine which is completely totally and utterly not psycho-reactive. Which can potentially give my mom a chance to meet and actually remember her grandchildren, as well as have some possible better level quality of life than she does currently. Is it possible that anyone could want........no even demand... that my mother should have no chance to benefit from this?

A drug which if it works as stated by scientific study, could keep my mother from an unknowing self inflicted death by starvation. I guess the alternative to that is we just stick a feeding tube in her and let her veg out on some opiates which are perfectly legal?

Would anyone here actually think .... That's a good way to handle it.

I'm done with this discussion, MG although none of the facts presented in it may have changed your mind one bit, I have never the less still enjoyed the discussion.

I kindly ask that you not offer a rebuttal to what i have written above. If you believe that all forms of Cannabis should remain completely illegal, Then i ask that you hold on to that belief and not respond to me about the above with something along the lines of "sorry to hear.....but...."

If you wish to continue this discussion with others then by all means... (I just asking that you not reference my situation, please)

I hope that people who read through this, make solid decisions based on everything discussed.

I also share in the hope that Louisiana voters are smart, and pray that they are also compassionate.

x2 :rotfl:

I would bet that most of those schools you went to have changed and not for the better since you went there;)

There are just some things that can't be taught, but 'the world will teach you what your mama can't'

What are neutral observers to make of a debate when one side resorts to personal attacks?

When I am asking for reasoned evidence and folks to back up their claims, and instead I receive insults, I tend to start thinking that the cupboard might be bare.

Attachment 54639

Please just let this dude talk to himself. No one cares. Any person with common sense and google can see that he is wrong.

Free the weed and raise the limit on flounder and I will vote yes!!!

10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish

"Despite general misconceptions that cannabis is unique from other drugs of abuse, cannabis exerts identical effects on the mesolimbic dopamine system." -A Brain on Cannabinoids: The Role of Dopamine Release in Reward Seeking

The mesolimbic dopamine system is a pathway in the brain in which dopamine is carried from one area of the brain to another.

If I loved my mother (and I do), and after reviewing her health status and the best available science, I was really convinced her only option for effective treatment, I would move her to a state or country where she could receive that treatment.

This debate isn't really about medical use of cannabis. That is a different rabbit trail, with many subtleties related to everything from the wisdom of self-medicating with addictive substances and how careful government entities should be when approving medical uses of drugs.

One great benefit of Federalism is that state laws are not all the same, and you should be aware that medical applications of cannabis are common and legal in many states.

I am no fan of the FDA's slow approval process or (in many cases) the Federal overreach into matters that are not necessarily interstate commerce. However, the current regime seems to be giving some states room on medical uses of cannabis.

"As joints smoked per week increased, performance decreased on tests measuring memory, executive functioning, psychomotor speed, and manual dexterity."- Dose-related neurocognitive effects of marijuana use :spineyes:

When my mom was dying from cancer i met w/ her oncologist. I asked him point blank, Would cannabis help w/ the effects of the Chemo and help w/ her appetite?
His reply was ,speaking as a medical professional, i don't know. Speaking as a friend, by all means.
At that time she was on a morphine patch , Demerol and anti anxiety meds.
When i sat down to discuss the use of THC w/ her . The first words out of her mouth were. I DO NOT WANT TO BECOME A DRUG ADDICT!
Another victim of the" Reefer Madness" generation.
RIP Mom.

Where's you Come from? Welcome to SC, glad to see you've never smoked pot before and believe it is evil too.

Attachment 54641

"Very heavy use of marijuana is associated with persistent decrements in neurocognitive performance even after 28 days of abstinence." -Dose-related neurocognitive effects of marijuana use

Math geek recruit. He needed some back up.

Definitely didn't mean any of that to come off as a personal attack and if you perceived it that way I apologize. It was more of an observation of paranoia about a few issues:)

Very heavy use of marijuana is assoctiated with huge increase in Doritos sales:rotfl:

What is 'heavy use'? and welcome aboard:)

"Researchers have found that long-term consumption of low dose caffeine slowed hippocampus-dependent learning and impaired long-term memory in mice. Caffeine consumption for 4 weeks also significantly reduced hippocampal neurogenesis compared to controls during the experiment. The conclusion was that long-term consumption of caffeine could inhibit hippocampus-dependent learning and memory partially through inhibition of hippocampal neurogenesis."

Google.com

We can go back and forth all day by picking the most extreme circumstances and posting then as though they are the rule for every person that touches the substances.

Your points do nothing to quantify your argument.

My father in law just got back from a cross country motorcycle trip where he went to Colorado and Washington and assured me the sky had not fallen.

"The authors studied the effects of marijuana intoxication on the ability of 10 certified airplane pilots to operate a flight simulator. They used a randomized double-blind crossover design to compare the effect of active versus placebo marijuana. They found that all 10 pilots showed a significant decrease in measurements of flying performance 30 minutes after smoking active marijuana. For a group of 6 pilots tested sequentially for 6 hours, a nonsignificant decrease in flying performance continued for 2 hours after smoking the active drug." - Marijuana effects on simulated flying ability

Wow. Really. Hey guys. This just in if you get intoxicated it makes it harder to fly a plane. Really. Come on with this trash.

"Decision-making deficits are a robust cognitive correlate of substance abuse, but few studies have addressed the long-term differential associations of cocaine use and marijuana (MJ) use on decision-making. This study utilized the Iowa Gambling Task (IGT), a widely used measure of decision-making, to investigate the relationship between cocaine and MJ use and IGT learning. We analyzed between and within group differences across two consecutive testing sessions in abstinent users of either MJ or cocaine. We assessed long-term correlates of the use of these drugs by evaluating users after 25 days of enforced abstinence. Results showed that both cocaine users and MJ users performed worse than controls on the total IGT net score. All groups showed learning between Session 1 and Session 2, but the cocaine users showed the smallest increase in performance. The pattern of learning from the beginning to the end (block × block) of the IGT (Session 2) was different for the drug groups, with the cocaine group showing more learning than the MJ group. Dose-related measures of cocaine use (grams/week) and MJ use (joints/week) predicted IGT performance (the heavier the drug use the lower the performance). Differential correlates of cocaine use and MJ use on decision-making learning may have important implications for the development of novel treatment interventions."- THE DIFFERENTIAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN COCAINE USE AND MARIJUANA USE ON DECISION-MAKING PERFORMANCE OVER REPEAT TESTING WITH THE IOWA GAMBLING TASK

Step one. Google Pot is bad mmmmkay

Step 2. Copy

Step 3. Paste.

I like your style, Miss Small. Welcome to the party. Having been criticized for too little science, I think I'll post some too.

The available studies using brain imaging techniques and neuropsychological tests show that acutely, all drugs create a disharmony in the neuropsychological network, causing a decrease of activity in areas responsible for short-term memory and attention, with the possible exception of heroin. Cannabis induces loss of internal control and cognitive impairment, especially of attention and memory, for the duration of intoxication.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15925403

"...To examine whether the association between early cannabis use and subsequent progression to use of other drugs and drug abuse/dependence persists after controlling for genetic and shared environmental influences.

Self-reported subsequent nonmedical use of prescription sedatives, hallucinogens, cocaine/other stimulants, and opioids; abuse or dependence on these drugs (including cannabis abuse/dependence); and alcohol dependence.

Individuals who used cannabis by age 17 years had odds of other drug use, alcohol dependence, and drug abuse/dependence that were 2.1 to 5.2 times higher than those of their co-twin, who did not use cannabis before age 17 years. Controlling for known risk factors (early-onset alcohol or tobacco use, parental conflict/separation, childhood sexual abuse, conduct disorder, major depression, and social anxiety) had only negligible effects on these results. These associations did not differ significantly between monozygotic and dizygotic twins."- Escalation of Drug Use in Early-Onset Cannabis Users vs Co-twin Controls

BACKGROUND:
Cognitive deficits that persist up to a month have been detected among adult marijuana users, but decrements and their pattern of recovery are less known in adolescent users. Previously, we reported cognitive deficits among adolescent marijuana users after one month of abstinence (Medina, Hanson, Schweinsburg, Cohen-Zion, Nagel, & Tapert, 2007). In this longitudinal study, we characterized neurocognitive changes among marijuana-using adolescents across the first three weeks of abstinence.
METHOD:
Participants were adolescent marijuana users with limited alcohol and other drug use (n=19) and demographically similar non-using controls (n=21) ages 15-19. Participants completed a brief neuropsychological battery on three occasions, after 3days, 2weeks, and 3weeks of stopping substance use. Abstinence was ascertained by decreasing tetrahydrocannabinol metabolite values on serial urine drug screens. Verbal learning, verbal working memory, attention and vigilance, and time estimation were evaluated.
RESULTS:
Marijuana users demonstrated poorer verbal learning (p<.01), verbal working memory (p<.05), and attention accuracy (p<.01) compared to controls. Improvements in users were seen on word list learning after 2weeks of abstinence and on verbal working memory after 3weeks. While attention processing speed was similar between groups, attention accuracy remained deficient in users throughout the 3-week abstinence period.
CONCLUSIONS:
This preliminary study detected poorer verbal learning and verbal working memory among adolescent marijuana users that improved during three weeks of abstinence, while attention deficits persisted. These results implicate possible hippocampal, subcortical, and prefrontal cortex abnormalities.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20621421

100% of beer drinkers tried milk first.

Doesn't cause lung cancer http://www.thoracic....ung-cancer.html
Doesn't cause lung cancer http://www.sciam.com...55F83414B7F0000
Doesn't cause brain damage http://www.webmd.com...nt-damage-brain
Negligible risk http://norml.org/ind...m?Group_ID=4305
Minimal Effect on Central Nervous System http://www.scienceda...30630112652.htm
Doesn't cause oral cancer http://www.news.uiuc...oralcancer.html
Doesn't cause cancer http://www.umich.edu...t16_06/01.shtml
Pot shrinks tumors http://www.alternet.org/story/9257/
Government perspective http://www.nida.nih..../marijuana.html
Negligible consequences of using marijuana when pregnant http://www.mothering...uana-side4.html
Doesn't cause cancer Doesn’t cause cancer even though contains more carcinogens http://health.dailyn...iew/0002267/61/

Proverbs 25:28
Like a city whose walls are broken through is a person who lacks self-control.

Acts 24:25
As Paul talked about righteousness, self-control and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and said, “That’s enough for now! You may leave."

Most all from legitimate sources. Unlike yours. Even NIDA.

I'm not and never have been a pot user. So I think ill just sit back have a cold one and watch as this train wreck unfolds.

You don't have to be.
Just ask yourself this question.

" do you support putting adults in a cage for use of a substance safer than alcohol ?"

I'm done. I will let math geek post a couple of pages of trash before I get back in it.

"We conclude that the use of marijuana or cocaine during pregnancy is associated with impaired fetal growth and that measuring a biologic marker of such use is important to demonstrate the association"-Effects of Maternal Marijuana and Cocaine Use on Fetal Growth

Ya don't say?! No one here suggested using any type of anything while pregnant.

What started out as an interesting debate has turned into a copy and paste fest that is so mind-numbingly boring that I feel like I smoked a quarter and sat down to read Google from front to back!

I guess I'll go get a beer, get pregnant and, hop in a 747 and, fly away.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and just assume that "Miss" is actually MG's wife that signed up today to join in converting us all to the moral high ground.

I know i shouldn't assume, but it seems really coincidental that someone be lurking on an outdoor site with an agenda to start posting so called scientific data in an attempt to shoot down everyone else's opinion on pot.... And the Handle (Miss) is a play on words from a post MG had.

I'm out, this thread is high.

I hear you man I live and work in Humboldt County, the weed capital of the world. I personally do not think the suff is any worse than any other addictive poison, but I cannot get over the attitudes of the gowers. It is a for profit scheme and they will do anythng to make a buck. They do not pay taxes, and every time I see a guy come in with five hunderd pounds of weed and a food stamp card and state funded medical card it disgusts me. The worst thing that ever could happen to these guys is if weed was legalized and Pfizer and Pepsico took over the market. They also don't care whose water they poison or how much wildlife they kill, as long as they are able to make that all powerful buck. Scum of the Earth in my very educated opinion.

I appreciate your opinion MathGeek and I understand your motivation. I just absolutely will not tolerate a government that is strong enough to enforce a moral or theological system. I think that by raising our kids to be smart and make righteous decisions, we are winning the war far more than by making laws that cannot be enforced without draconian measures.

As far as the weed worshipers are concerned:

It aint medicine.
It don't cure cancer.
Smoking anything is unhealthy.
It doesn't help autistic children, any more than any sedative. Parents who give thier kids weed in any form for any reason are abusive.
It is availiable via prescription as Marinol to help chemo patients.
It is addictive.
Weed smells bad and when you don't notice it anymore that is how we know you are an addict.
Porn, booze, pizza, candybars, and fishing are addictive too. I don't want to outlaw any of those things either, whether I agree with them on a moral basis or not.

I love battles of wit.... Especially when I am better armed than my opponents.

If smoking is unhealthy, edibles. Smells bad?? You've never smoked good weed. And addictive? Lmao x 100000