The guides. They don't have to work as long for a limit.

Nothing will be done about big lakes oysters. All on committee members are processors and oyster farmers from the east side of the state. Looks like they want to eventually have a monopoly.
Oyster Advisory Committee Members

Garret Graves
Chair

Al Sunseri
Oyster Processor

Peter Vujnovich
Oyster Farmer in Jefferson and Lafourche Parish

Shane Bagala
Oyster Farmer in Terrebonne, St. Mary and Vermilion Parishes

Brad Robins
Oyster Farmer in Plaquemines and St. Bernard Parishes

Byron Encalade
Oyster Farmer in Plaquemines

Kenny Fox
Oyster Farmer in Plaquemines and St. Bernard Parishes

Lauren Estopinal
Oil and Gas Association

Channing Hayden
Port of Lake Charles (Representing Maritime and Navigation)

Jerome Zeringue
Executive Director, Coastal Protection and Restoration Authority

King Milling
Chair, Governor’s Advisory Commission on Coastal Protection, Restoration and Conservation

Norby Chabert
Louisiana State Senator – District 20

Ray Garofalo
Louisiana State Representative – District 103

Lenar Whitney
Louisiana State Representative – District 53

Robert Barham
Secretary, Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries
Randy Pausina, Designe

One other thing, they are looking at diverting some of the ICW into the marsh.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Overall MG, the points you made in your original post went largely unanswered. I will say I did not stick around for the oyster discussion (I had pretty much had enough and had a 2.5 hr drive back home to deal with), but the rest of it was about what I expected. From my point of view, the weirs appear to be operating as they were intended for the most part. I think the fact that some of the weirs may not appear open when they actually are complicates things. I was unaware that some of the structures could be opened below the surface.

Other than that, and who actually sits on the Cameron-Creole Advisory Committee, I learned very little from the discussion of the weirs. They said nothing that I didn't already know.

In my opinion, the management plan is in no way "outdated". With the exception of the marsh, not much has changed that can be controlled. The potential is on the table for some freshwater introduction in the future, but for now, the management plan seems to he effective enough to curtail any additional loss of land. If not for Rita and Ike, things may be progressing very well. The evidence was there in the data that the Cameron-Creole was freshening, and that is in line with other research I've seen. Rita and the subsequent years of misoperation by the USFWS set back a lot of progress.

The dredging discussion was almost pointless, except to reveal that the Corps is essentially wasting dredge material by depositing it outside the jetties in the gulf.

That would be great if they could work out the technical challenges to ensure one way flow so that salt does not get into the ICW. It might be expensive.

Would probably involve a similar design as the flap gates at Grand Bayou. Allows for one way water flow.

Wish you woulda been there for this. We needed someone more educated on this issue. They didn't like hearing what Nickt87 had to say. He admitted the limit change in 05 was a social issue. The last guy to talk, i don't remember his name, but i didn't like him.

Thanks for the feedback, greatly appreciated. On the one hand, it is too bad that the dredge material can't be used to rebuild eroded land. On the other hand, putting it in the Gulf make it unlikely it will end up back in the channel and need to be dredged again. Rocking the length of the ship channel is a very expensive proposition.

I knew that the weirs had gates below the waterline both from personal observation as well as some of the reading materials. It would be nice if they could communicate to anglers when these were open, both for PR purposes and because fish are going to congregate in front of the weirs when the tide is flowing out if they are open.

I agree with you that I don't see where a management plan is outdated. If the science and data that went into the plan were good, the plan should still be good. "Outdated" is a cheap shot unless one can articulate precisely what scientific principles are better understood now than when the original plan was written.

Just read all these post.

MG..... the question was asked and we were told that some or all of the power point presentation will be posted on the CPRA [Coastal Protection and Restoration Authority] web site. www.coastal.la.gov I talked with Chuck Perrodin after the meeting and he said it might take a couple of days before he can it it posted. He said to find the information: start by clicking on "calendar". Chuck's phone # is 225 342-7615 or 225 768-8882 cell.

There was a post earlier today about the meeting room was going to be "packed"......and it was. There were quite a few people standing in the back and just a couple of empty seats. I made a ruff estimate that there could have been 250 people there.

In the last few minutes of the meeting [with 30-40 people still there] the subject of using data to decide if limits need to be changed was discussed. I tried to get the speaker to say that the LDWF biologist 10 years ago, when the Big Lake limit was lowered, said that a change is not needed. He said that this was not said by the LDWF.

FYI.... Texas is now consider lowering the Trout limit [on the lower half ?] of their coast. Get this........ because there is major land loss and they think they should lower the limit now. Does that sound like the same "bull" we were told 10 years out about Big Lake.

There have been many project over the years where the dredge material has been used to restore the marshes. Some on refuge land and some on privet land.

When dredging out in the gulf, the water/sludge mixture is pumped into a barge. Only a small % is heavy solids that settles out into the barge. The light "silt" like stuff flow out with the water and the Westward Gulf current carries it away from the channel that is being dredged.

I don't remember if she said what was done with the material in the barge. She did say that they get about 3 barge loads a day.

A representative from David Vittor's office was there to see what was going on at the meeting.

Gerald, thanks for the added information. I'm at work and was not able to attend tonight.

Thanks to everyone that relayed information to us people that were not able to make the meeting

Key words I got from meeting

Weirs-committee
Dredge- fluffy
Oysters -red tape power

i just dont understand how it possible for them to do all of this... i honestly dont know where to start. its just all b s and looks like nothing is gonna change.

Thanks for the report. CCA has also been pushing for additional limit reductions in TX and FL. FL releases enough of their data to see that additional restrictions were unnecessary, and they even recently raised their limit on slot reds slightly, as indicated by the data. TX has been moving consistently toward lower limits. I have not seen the TX data justifying this, but frankly I have not looked as hard, as I have much less interest in Texas regulations compared with Louisiana.

Since there were probably not any Texas government officials at the meeting last night, I would not be overly confident that you received accurate information regarding why lowering the limit is being considered. In the best case, you may have received accurate information regarding why CCA thinks the Texas speck limit needs to be lowered. Since the CCA-TX people also have tremendous influence over CCA-LA, pressing CCA for the data regarding their position on TX and FL changes should be useful in helping discern their true motives moving forward if they try and represent their position to be changed in Louisiana. The TX move lowering the limit on bull reds to one per year is not justified in the data.

In other news

Did anyone see the grow ups playing Dungons and dragons real life in the park?

It was like on the movie "Role Models"
Lmao

Did not know people were that low in life

The oyster guy was informative, the problem is it takes legislature to change this. its been talked about on here before, the rep from jennnings tried to change this. He was met by heavy oposition (oyster fisherman) no one was there to support him on the changes and he changed the bill. For any change to occur it seems like it would take a lot of noise from people like the people that were there last night. I asked him for the people in the room that want change on the oyster harvest regs, who should we contact. He said our legislator is the one to contact.

weirs topic was very informative, and they will work for what they are intended. To save the marsh behind the levee. The best idea I heard about access was the guy that asked about rollers or some form of access while the gate is closed. Cameron parish would have to pay for that, i think. There was a long member list of people that make the decision on opening and closing the weirs weekly or even daily. Kinda blows the whole duck hunter running the marsh complaint that gets discussed here a lot.

I think we need to mull this over for another day or two, while considering whether and how to call for an ongoing and more effective Boycott of the S.T.A.R. Tournament now that CCA has had ample opportunity to address angler concerns.

Certainly, we need to reach out to a broader base of anglers to expand the boycott next year. But we might also consider how we might effectively reach out to CCA sponsors and participating businesses (sign-up locations and weigh stations). Since it may well cost participating businesses some business to join the boycott, effective outreach here will require tact and care and likely an ongoing effort to make them well informed regarding the justifications for the boycott and what we hope to accomplish by it. We may also need to try and effectively steer boycott participants to local businesses that are willing to join the boycott efforts.

Please give some consideration to how the boycott might be effectively expanded next year. The key to making these efforts effective in the long term is reducing CCA's influence with LDWF and LWC. The license fee increase hasn't passed yet, even though CCA supported it. I also think CCA's credibility has taken a hit with local anglers, with LWC, and with LDWF.

I would be much more discouraged if CCA had gained 100 new members last night.

10!!!

I agree this is what I heard. She said the material is to light to use, and it makes sense because of the westward currents. She said the 3 loads of heavier material they dump west of the channel in the gulf, I would assume what doen't settle out is taken away by the same westward currents.

Legislative pressure is a great idea, but I expect it to take a while to work.

I've begun to think outside the box a bit. Do you know that there are a host of new regulations that the oyster harvesters need to comply with and also that DHH has the authority to close oystering grounds for health reasons? One idea that has potential is to begin photographing and documenting the oystering activities, both to improve our documentation of the ecological damage done by the dredging and also to gather information and make reports regarding non-compliance with the regulations. If state officials give oyster harvesters a pass on non-compliance, I don't think it would be too hard to get the FDA involved to shut down non-compliant operators, and some other states are very eager to cite health concerns as reasons to stop buying Louisiana Oysters. There is real potential to give the local oyster industry a black eye on failure to comply with new health regulations. Give some of the new regs a careful read, and I bet some action items come to mind:

http://new.dhh.louisiana.gov/index.cfm/page/629/n/210

http://new.dhh.louisiana.gov/assets/...n_05102014.pdf

http://new.dhh.louisiana.gov/assets/...hure_14x17.pdf

http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/news/37809

http://oysterlease.wlf.la.gov/oyster...tification.pdf

Quackkkkkkkk



Choot em Waltrip

I'm not trying to be negative about your post, but that meeting last night was organized by the cca. Not because of a boycott or lost funds due to it, but because people took the time to voice their concerns about the issues to the CCA. We have the CCA's attention, why not take advatage of it and keep pushing the concerns. That may be more productive than working hard to boycott them.

I have to believe that all the negative talk about the CCA caused them to have the meeting. I may be wrong but I`m sure it had some influence on the decision for a meeting.

How many signatures on a petition to stop the dredging do you think it would take to get some attention? Along with the graph that we saw last night.... that clearly shows a decline.

Why not do both?

I've never opposed an open dialog with CCA as long as they are willing to maintain a conversation that includes anglers who are not giving them our money.

But given CCA's track record over the past 15 years, I think expansion of boycott efforts is likely necessary to effectively alter past behaviors. Do you really think their emphasis over the past 15 years is likely to change if revenues remain high? I think that a 10-20% reduction in their Louisiana revenues will maintain their attention better than continued growth.

Don't see that ever happening. Too much money and liability involved. The guy next to me was laughing about that. Said there are too many people that can't even launch a boat, let alone lift it over the levee.

When I get a chance, I'm going to call Chuck. I've remembered a few questions I wanted to ask him about the management plan that didn't come to me last night. Something about those marsh figures and them moving to Phase 2 of the MP didn't add up to me.

I wish I could say. There are some aspects of the Louisiana policy making process that are a mystery to me. Another SC member posted the list of committee members along with the view that the normal political pressures are unlikely to change anything. I noticed that Randy Pausina is on that committee and he has made an impression on me as a man who is concerned with sound science and science based policy.

It might take some time to get change, but ongoing pressure and dialog are a good thing toward that end. Dredging on the E side has been closed for a few years now, it is West Cove that has been getting raped, and I am optimistic that the E side may be coming back. My hope is to get the policy changed before the E side is re-opened. In addition to the committee and the legislature having the authority to close the E side, DHH and the LDWF Secretary also have the authority.

I agree,

Oyster fisherman must have the most money in the commercial industry !! It was clear cut last night that dredging has taken a major toll on the lake , but yet they don't want to say it's all dredging !!!

They even blamed it on snails

Does oysters bring in the most income for our state of commercial fishing ?

How can the WLF be so blind and dumbfounded to that graph last night ?

That was me, and that was my nicest way of telling that goon that I don't give 2 turds what the hell Texas does with their fishery, especially after you just stated that their creel limit decision wasn't based primarily on scientific data but partially on social premise.

Other than that statement I tried to keep most of my comments black and white and to the point for the presenters to understand and answer as well as the audience to follow. I frown upon anyone that does nothing but rant on the internet and then sit back and watch when they get in front of people that they supposedly want to hang. I understand some feel like it falls on deaf ears but if you're going to take the time to drive over and attend then go ahead and take the opportunity to put them on the hot seat. Interrogation and quarreling can be done in an educated and fair manner and still have a monumental impact.

As for the content provided I feel some of it was eye opening and some of it was redundant and part of the horse and pony show.

My biggest concern leaving the meeting was that they have black and white data and charts explaining that oyster habitat and population is rapidly decreasing and they have done slim to none to protect, conserve, and restore it. Later in the night I voiced that people are in panic because we are hearing of trout limit cuts and we are afraid it is for all the wrong reasons. What makes us think that you have the estuaries best interest in mind? You have already proven that you can't manage and maintain a species that you have concrete data on. How are we supposed to trust and support your decision on trout limits when you say that you haven't collected data on speckled trout since 2010? And that data isn't even region specific!


Overall, I did apprecitate CCA for taking the time to show and put on the meeting. Possibly, if they would have recieved questions and comments from the most concerned the meeting could have been even more informative. You never know what one question or comment can lead to.

It's the restaurant lobby that is so strong.

I asked about the Speckled Trout Stock Assessments data. The last guy (I think his name was Harry Blanchette?) said that they continually collect data and that they have the data but that it is only posted every 3-5 years.

I asked that question specifically because of all the talk on SC. I couldn't remember what the historical postings of this data was during the meeting so I asked if it was historically posted annually and he said no.

After the meeting I was pondering that response and it hit me that maybe it was historically posted every 3 years in the past? 2004 - 2007 - 2010... Either way if they are saying 3-5 years it should be published soon.

W I think the biologist that was there talking about oysters had some pretty good scientific data based on field work. They are taking monthly and sometimes bi-monthly samples from these reefs. If he tells me that there are other factors like Oyster Predation, I am inclined to believe him.

He didn't say how much of the impact was due to dredging and how much due to other factors, but I think it is naïve to think that dredging was the ONLY concern when these guys are out there constantly sampling these reefs.

Agreed. My second concern is the area in which the data is gathered. They are taking generally aquired data and applying it to centralized zones. I fish from the The Biloxi Marsh down to Venice and over to Big Lake every year and they are all totally different ecosystems. It is erroneous to think that wide range data is accurate for centralized zones.

I was thinking quite a bit about this last night too.

LDWF obviously understands that different ecosystems should impact the management of those systems because they do this for Whitetail deer. The ecosystem on the west side of the state is totally different from the area along the Mississippi River and it is managed differently.

I think they need to explore different management regulations for the different estuaries based on the science and data from each area.

I've heard on here a number of times people comparing Sabine to Calcasieu... These are close together but they are also very different systems and probably should be managed differently.

Let me ask you something

You saw that chart last night right?

Ok if you put your life savings in the market in one stock and it looked like that ENRON chart last night ! How much longer do you keep your money in that stock and let it fall?

Since dredging it has plummeted downward and guess what ? We are still allowing dredging with out any solution and you trust the Goverment ?

CMON

Did you notice there were at least 50 guides who showed up and more than half left after the weir discussion because it's the same old ****

We can't answer nothing or we are not the ones to talk to blah blah blah

Yeah but like stated last night the east side of the state is all leased. Oyster fishermen there want to keep thier investment a good one so they work to rebuild their reefs. On big lake they suck em up and do nothing to help reseed I think that's where the deal problem is. Something needs to be done along the lines of making them put shells back or help with reef restoration projects if you oyster fish, but I image that's like pulling alligator teeth with those guys. I would be scared to death if all I knew how to do is catch oysters and I saw those graphs of the lake. It scares me just being a recreational fisherman.

If I had to put my money on it based on the chart and the data given.... I would just say the decline is probably 75% dredging and 25% other factors. But that is just a gut feeling.

As far as "Trusting the Government"... that's a little out there. I'm saying that I believe that the Oyster Biologist that was in attendance last night was credible and is doing his best to help the Oyster fishery in our estuary with data and practices that he feels is the best available.

Maybe what we learned from this meeting is that we need a more diverse audience to voice our concerns. If CCA can organize this meeting, why can't they organize another one with decision makers. Make these guys answer the tough questions. Voice your concerns to the people making the decisions!

The problem is even if you get the decision makers in the room, no decisions will be made right on the spot. These things take time and usually require a panel of people voting on the issues. While this may not give the 50 guides the immediate satisfaction they are looking for, it's the system we have in place. We just need to work it properly.

Another thing since when is the Corp not responsible for rocking the channel or that's what I got from the lady last night. They can only rock the federal channel and nothing else is what it sounded like and there are no plans to do anything about erosion except dredge the channel ever couple yrs that makes no sense to me.

Black drum dominate the oyster predation. Word among the commercial fishers is that there are a lot more black drum in Sabine than in Calcasieu, and several commercial guys whose home base is in Hackberry are regularly fishing Sabine now because there are more black drum over there. The predation and parasite pressure on oysters are comparable between Sabine and Calcasieu, so what's causing the biggest difference in the oyster stock assessments? Dredging is the obvious dominant factor, so don't let them blind you with reports of confounding factors.

But the Oyster Predation issue may open the door toward a useful policy change that both the oyster lobby and the sport anglers can agree on: Commercial and recreational limits on black drum should be completely eliminated state wide.

There is very little risk of extirpating the species state wide, and other than human activities, heavy predation of black drum on oysters is likely the most significant contributor to declining oyster reefs and challenges in oyster reef restoration. Now, I personally like black drum and enjoy catching them, but the scientific fact is that black drum are a nuisance species destroying far more value in oyster reef habitat than their value in the commercial and recreational fisheries.

There is a small commercial black drum fishery in the state, but they may not even object to removing limits, because the commercial fishery may even be sustainable without limits, and these guys also earn money in the oyster fishery, which is much more lucrative. In addition to protecting the oyster reefs, removing limits on black drum would also have the effect of reducing competition among juveniles for forage resources shared with other species. There are certain subcultures (mostly ethnic shore anglers) who would also appreciate removal of restrictions on black drum harvest. Like many fishery regulations, there were never any stock assessments showing the regulations were needed, someone simply decided that the life history of black drum was close enough to redfish to manage them with the same recreational regulations.

What she stated was that USACE "PRIMARY" role is to keep the Ship Channel dredged and that their budget doesn't allow for much outside of that. The rocking of the channel along the spoil banks was to keep the earthen dikes from eroding away and releasing the spoils. That was the justification for funding of those projects.

What we need is justification for the other projects mentioned. Rocking the channel at the South end of the lake and another area along the Channel is Moss Lake. Whoever this justification is presented to holds the purse strings. If they get the funding and funnel it through the port the USACE is more than capable of accomplishing the work.

It boils down to this

You have to get the committee or Senator to make something happen


We all kind of knew what kind of night it was going to be when the Jeff Poe asked a very educated question and he got "well the Management plan"

Jeff is by far the most knowledgable guide and person on big lake ! I would take anything he says over anyone of those quacks last night !

The dredge lady should of stayed home because she waisted time and could not answer nothing !

Speaking of oysters, why doesn't LDWF seed north of the harvest line and use the north halve of the lake as a refuge to naturally seed the rest of the lake. LDWF is completely propping up the oyster industry on the lake. At least the private leases insure their livelihood by dumping rock after harvest.

grew up with jeff and his son. great man and i agree with what you said.

what question do you have now about the weirs, after what was said last night?

The biologist just stated that there "other factors" like predation. He specifically mentioned whatever the "snail" predator was. He didn't say that was the only predator. I don't know jack about Oyster Predators other than what I read and someone credible tells me. If you say that Black Drum are the dominant predator to oysters, I will take it to the bank because I consider you very credible.

I agree that dredging is the dominant factor, my stance is that it is not the ONLY factor to be considered.

Is oyster dredging allowed in Sabine?

what was jeff poe's queston? I don't remember....

The dredge lady was the most valuable person there! Obviously you could tell by how she said "I do this, I do that, I have this much money."

When the lake salinity drops in the northern part like by Conni , let's open that weir and let the low salinity water flow into the marsh that way your keep your marsh lower and allowing flow

guy said Manangement Plan don't allow that



That Managanent plan is out data and I'm sure it could use an overhaul with new solutions

It's what 39years old? That's before I was born and lots of things have changed and it needs to be updated and evaluated better

Weirs should never be closed longer than a 2 weeks

Every Full Moon and New Moon they should be open for 72 hrs

Zero oystering in Sabine