This is some info on a fresh water introduction project.

http://lacoast.gov/reports/gpfs/CS-49.pdf

Good point, I was thinking of oyster drills (the snail) as a parasite rather than a predator because they are smaller than oysters, but many biologists consider them a predator because they destroy oysters.

I don't think anyone really knows whether oyster drills or black drum represents the bigger challenge in restoring and maintaining healthy oyster reefs. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyster_drill

Oystering is not allowed in Sabine. Sabine has the best oyster reefs in Louisiana.

I remeber that, not trying to be rebute what you are saying, but they stated before that question was asked the the weirs are opened according to the salinities and different weirs are open at different times. Just as he was talking about, I wondered why he asked that question.
They also said that unless there are adverse conditions in the lake the weirs will be opend as you state above, which seems unerstandable.
not trying to argue with you but i thought i heard the answers to those questions...

it doesn't matter how light, fluffy, dense or heavy the material is, it is usable. It was once solid on the bottom and will be solid once again where ever they choose to dump it. The heavy stuff that you can actually move with a shovel is not the only viable substance that comes from this. If it stayed light and fluffy the need for that dredge to run 24/7 would not be needed because prop wash and turbulent waters that these large ships produce would keep it stirred up and these "strong western currents" that were brought up would just wash it all away. These materials being dumped right next to the channel being dredged is no the best use of this material, it is a waste. This is the point I tried to make last night but was just hit with the fluffy and cost too much reply. So which scenario costs more? Dredging and dumping next to your channel which requires equipment to never stop and no other benefit is gained other than a safe passage way for ship travel or getting the resource away from where you dig eliminating the chance of it going right back where it came from and rebuilding lost coast line with a side possibility of that channel not needing the dredge as often???

I thought she said to get that much material to the beach would be over 30 million? "HER" budget is 11-14 million.... they dont have the money even if it was good material. She basiclly said they beg for people to help find and fund useful ways to use the material and have used it on projects in the past...

i talked with one of the engineers that was doing the dredging. he said that we're too cheap to pay for it to be done properly and all they do is basically agitate the silt and let it cruise on down the channel in the water. he said places like florida and south texas actually use the material and build levees and land. it was just not in our area budget to pay for it to be done properly.... instead we put millions into building a little loop thatll direct traffic to a new casino and be more of a headache for all of us.

We have a so called dying Marsh ( only in east side ) and we have a dredge pumping out material 24/7 365

But it makes to much sense to put 2 and 2 together and make it useful

Nope just dump the "fluff" back half mile from where you pulled it " She said it goes towards Texas anyway "

as for the weirs...Yes they have their very old plan in place that was working before our area was changed by forces of nature beyond anyones control. To think that conditions will return to what they were 10-15 years ago is like thinking you're going to win the powerball every week. They know the conditions and they know what is needed to improve, FRESH water. Yet they seem very content to sit there and collect a check holding the bandage on the wound and complaining about how much blood is being lost. If our state and local agencies and 32 subcommittees are so worried about Cameron parish turning into the next Lake Pontchartrain then why is their only only plan to wait for rain. They are worried about the need for water being so great that it will drop the ICW to a level that will impede navigation but are satisfied with just waiting for rain.

to get money you have to push for money. Im not talking about building a 12 million dollar pipeline to build up a spot in Joe Blows privately owned marsh. Im talking about taking it the beaches and rebuilding lost coastline. Yes this takes money from our gooberment but if it is taken to them in a viable manor stating what good could be done for our coastline rather some private entity it may not fall on deaf ears. How many campaigns and groups are out there pushing to restore coastline??? If these government officials preach it but dont feel the need to act upon it when it is put in front of them then we have found a root part of the problem and it will be up to us, "the people", to help solve the problem.

BOOM

the problem: theyre politicians and they lie to get where they want and lie about what theyre doing. we live in the second most corrupt state in the nation, preceded only by mississippi. how do you get money if they (such as our governor) uses money thats been set aside for these projects for his own political beliefs!?

the "power" is not in our hands. its in the hands of the CCA and similar organizations. they are supposed to be our voice. they speak for our conservation efforts. but they dont. its all about getting rich and lying about it. just a matter of how long you can do it before people catch on and if you get caught

correct,

It's Blanchet... Ive had a few discussions with him about fisheries data in the last few months and he told me they are working on getting the best data possible and hope to release it soon

I don't recall him saying the management plan doesn't allow it. I recall them continually referencing that it isn't just about salinity. There are multiple factors that determine the opening of the weirs. He also said there is a delayed reaction between the northern portion of the lake and the southern portion by the weirs. Just because the salinity is low up north doesn't make it low down south. I believe MG has said that many times on here.

And again, the management plan was created in 1987. That's 27 years old. And there is nothing now about the science behind marsh management and salinities that contradicts what was known in 1987. The only difference now is there were a couple of one time events (hurricanes) that set back the progress the weirs were making.

Blanchet is a quality fellow, first rate biologist. I'm not sure he would fall on his sword in the face of LDWF stupidity, but he has a solid track record of good science on spotted seatrout.

The are 2 ways to change the oyster harvest in Big Lake:
1. Get the legislature to change the law
2. Get the Commission to lower the sack limit more than it is at now.

Ideally it would be the legislature. Problem will be that we need to get statewide support for this or it ain't going to fly. The oyster fishermen are organized and will oppose any change. I believe I can get the bill introduced, but need support first.

CCA Executive Director David Cresson said he had not heard of the rocking of the Washout area until last night and he was going to bring it to some Governor's committee.

As much as it has been talked about here, you would think that he would of heard of it from some of the LC Board members before last night.

I hate I missed this meeting. The group should not rest on the issues of the lake. I hope that a better management of the oystering of our lake is developed and implemented.

I recently visited Charleston, SC. They seem to have a wonderful oyster management system there. I assume CCA is in this area. Seems that some type of knowledge share and didn't ideas should be available.

Article about the meeting

http://www.louisianasportsman.com/details.php?id=6849

All he can do is present the data, after that it is up to the commission to make the decisions. I have every confidence he will help compile and present to best, most accurate data possible.

you just bragging cause he is your uncle.

Hush..

:rotfl: :grinpimp:

Oh, we counted chairs last night. They had about 150 chairs out, so I would guess there was 170 ish people last night.

And 60 people viewing this thread

:funny:

:thefinger:

What scientific data are you basing that on? Or do you only call for strict adherence to scientific data when you think it supports what's convenient for you in the short term?

There is no question that salt intrusion kills marsh and causes subsidence, if you think having the weirs closed impacts your fishing negatively now, wait until that marsh is gone.

What about when the salinity behind the weir is higher than In the lake and they won't open them because it hasn't rained?

This is a very well written, informative article. Thanks for the link.

Recommended reading folks!

Is this the only law on oysters on Calcasieu?

RS 56:435.1.1


§435.1.1. Oyster harvest in Calcasieu Lake

A.(1) Oyster harvesting in Calcasieu Lake shall be prohibited except by special permit issued annually by the Department of Wildlife and Fisheries or as authorized by Paragraph (D)(2) of this Section. The commission shall promulgate rules and regulations to delineate the procedures by which the permits shall be issued.

(2) Such permit shall be in addition to all other licenses and permits required for harvesting of oysters. At all times, such oyster harvesting shall be limited to using tongs, a hand dredge, a single dredge with mechanical assist that has a tooth bar no more than thirty-six inches long; or use of a single scraper with mechanical assist and a flat bar length of no more than thirty-six inches is allowed.

B. All vessels used for the commercial harvest of oysters on Calcasieu Lake must be self-propelled. "Self-propelled" means, when used in this Section, that the vessel shall travel under its own power to its harvest area and when loaded with oysters, shall travel under its own power to the place where the oysters are unloaded.

C. The commission shall fix the open season for oyster harvest in Calcasieu Lake, which shall begin on any date between October fifteenth and November first and shall end on April thirtieth. However, in consultation with the Calcasieu Oyster Task Force, the commission may open or close the season as biological data indicate a need and may manage East Cove and West Cove separately.

D.(1) After considering the recommendations by the Calcasieu Oyster Task Force, the commission shall set the harvest limit so that each permittee may harvest an amount not to exceed twenty-five sacks of oysters per day from one, and only one, licensed vessel. In addition, one and only one permittee may harvest from each licensed vessel per day and no vessel shall be used for more than one trip per day.

(2) In addition, recreational fishermen may harvest oysters as provided in R.S. 56:424(C). Harvest limits for recreational fishermen shall be one sack per person per day.

E.(1) Violation of any provision of this Section or of any Wildlife and Fisheries Commission regulation pertaining to taking, possessing, recording or reporting of landings or selling oysters from Calcasieu Lake shall constitute a Class 4 violation. The offender shall also be penalized as follows:

(a) For a first offense, the offender shall forfeit any permit to harvest oysters on Calcasieu Lake and shall be barred from obtaining such permit for the remainder of the period for which it was issued plus one year, during which time the offender shall be barred from participating in any oyster harvesting activity on Calcasieu Lake.

(b) For a second offense, the offender shall forfeit any permit to harvest oysters on Calcasieu Lake and shall be barred from obtaining a permit to harvest oysters on Calcasieu Lake for the remainder of the period for which it was issued plus two years, during which time the offender shall be barred from participating in any oyster harvesting activity on Calcasieu Lake.

(c) For a third offense, the offender shall forfeit any permit to harvest oysters on Calcasieu Lake and shall be permanently barred from obtaining a permit to harvest oysters on Calcasieu Lake and from participating in any oyster harvesting activity on Calcasieu Lake.

(2) Any person who participates in oyster harvesting on Calcasieu Lake while barred shall be penalized under the provisions of a Class 7-B violation.

If you have 30 ppt in the marsh, and 15 in the lake, how much good is it really going to do to open the weirs?

Not much. An intermediate or brackish marsh can't take much over 10 ppt, so its irrelevant if you let 15 ppt in to an area that is 20+.

Thanks Jude,

Glad you're back to fishing and stuff, last time we talked you were busted to pieces with the neck and such.

Was wondering if that was you. Gave up fly fishing but back to regular fishing some.

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This must have been the guy sitting in front of me... He had a voice recorder and taped the whole meeting. He also took a lot of notes.

I watch the guage data that is available pretty faithfully because I really like fishing the marsh behind the weirs, and have to say it's been very rare that I've seen the circumstance you describe. Not to say it never happens but it's not a very regular occurance. There are however other factors than just salinity that go into the decisions on operation of the weirs. Do I think the weirs are operated "prefectly"? No, but I think a good faith effort is made to follow the management plan.

His comment kind of faded out at the end but what he actually said was that he had not heard of rocking the washout area until the meeting was organized in the last few weeks.

The "organized in the last few weeks" comment was muffled when he spoke it.

This is an interesting thing though. Maybe the best thing that will come out of this meeting will be some type of action from CCA on this matter.
I am certainly going to do my best to start attending their meetings (even if I have to join) to start bringing some of these issues in front of them on a regular basis.

To be perfectly honest, I probably fish less than 10 times per year but I am concerned about the future of all of our natural resources. I want my kids and grandkids to remember why this place is called Sportsman's Paradise. I'd hate to stand idly by and watch these resources deteriorate when I could have done something about it. I don't know if my voice will be heard but at least I'm trying to take a stand on it.

No, these are some special rules out in place in 2010 or 2011. All the other LDWF and DHH rules apply also.

That is what I meant. Didn't phrase properly

Also, if you have a FB account, see about joining the LC CCA chapter. I just posted asking them to post meeting dates, times and locations.

Gotta get involved to try and make some changes.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1112.../?notif_t=like

Look at the Atchafalaya Delta area. All of the islands there where created from dredge spoil. What is the problem with doing the same thing over there?

Action Items for Improving the Future of the Calcasieu Fishery
 

It's time to discuss some potential action items and ask for people to step up as volunteers to support what could be a successful grassroots effort toward bringing positive change (or at least slow down negative changes). Here is one way of organizing efforts:

Oyster Reef Restoration and Protection

Science: MathGeek and FishGeek continue to acquire necessary funding, make data requests, analyze data and distribute results, plan and execute 2015 study, etc.

Documentation of dredging and regulatory non-compliance: Guides, West Cove Anglers

Bring good cameras and start taking pictures.

Advocacy: It's generally considered bad form for the scientists on a project to have too big a role in related advocacy issues. We need someone to step up and take ownership of advocating for change with the LWFC and the legislature over direct oyster management issues. The same or a different person might handle interfacing with the press and with HHS. I think I can take the lead in advocating the removal of limits on black drum to reduce predation pressure. I am also willing to help draft and edit letters to various parties, provide data summaries and talking points, and be some scientific muscle behind the angler advocacy.

Weir Management

Science: Smalls and MathGeek - request data on historical openings and closings (via CCA first, then CPRA directly), compare historical openings and closings with management plan and documented salinity, tides, water levels to quantify track record of compliance/non-compliance and prepare report for distribution. Smalls, can you volunteer some of that time and talent to collaborate with me on this? I already have a letter to CCA drafted asking them to request the data.

Field Reports: We expect possible challenges in obtaining reliable data on historical openings. We would like guides and anglers to support our analysis by providing reliable reports of observed openings and closings including: date, time, location, observed gates open, observed gates closed, observed flow conditions (no flow, inward flow, outward flow, flow speed estimate in ft/s from observing floating debris and distance covered in 10 seconds). Once we have a few hundred days of accurate field reports, we can compare actual activity with the management plan. If Smalls is willing to work with me, we can develop a standardized form to assist guides and anglers in reporting gate openings and closures. A show of hands on who is willing to observe and submit regular field reports would be very helpful.

Erosion and Channel Dredging

Need a couple of people to step up and take a leadership role here. Some reasonable goals are to advocate for spoils from dredging to be used to rebuild a land barrier on the E side of ship channel to separate lower lake from ship channel and to rock the border between lower channel and land to prevent spoils from re-entering the channel.

CCA/S.T.A.R. Boycott

Bucking seems to have the lead on this. We need some other volunteers to develop and execute a plan for extending the boycott to businesses and sponsors next year, and consider how we might help the boycott get more traction in SE Louisiana.

Return to Science and Data Driven Fisheries Management

Needs some core leaders/organizers

This is a grassroots effort that needs to include a healthy contribution from all parties writing letters to LWC members, CCA, and state representatives. Attending CCA meetings and LWC meetings will also be useful. Important talking points are lack of public stock assessment data, unscientific tripletail regs (based on Mississippi life history data with no LA life history or stock assessment), unscientific reduction in speck limit in Calcasieu in 2005, unscientific black drum limit, mistake (since corrected) imposing restrictive largemouth bass limits in Atchafalaya Basin, temptations at knee jerk impositions of additional restrictions on redfish and spotted seatrout.

We can always discuss talking points on SC the day or two before important meetings.

Short term goals should be removing limit on black drum and return of SWLA speck limits to 25 per day. Long term goal is open, science based, data driven management.

Let's get some people volunteering, and then maybe we can develop more concrete strategies at the tourney.

return to science is KEY!!

Agreed. All the other action items are natural consequences of the desire for science based management.

With the WL&F running the oyster show it will be over with in about 2 years when we have zero left in west cove

But I'm sure they will just close WC and open the east side up again



Unless they are just to money hungry blind to see oyster dredging is the #1 problem

I'd be happy to help as much as I can in a technical capacity.

First let me say this though: you are going to have a hard time getting all of that information out of CPRA, because I seriously doubt that they have it. CPRA took over operations of the weirs in 2012, and Leanne presented all of the data on the openings since CPRA took over that role.

Prior to 2012, USFWS had the responsibility for operating the weirs. I believe LDWF may have even been a part of the operations at one point. There is some data on the openings in the report I'm sending you.

Basically, I'm not sure if petitioning CPRA is going to get all the information you want, because I don't think they have it. You may have to get it in bits and pieces from CPRA and USFWS, if USFWS has maintained thorough records of that information.

Data since 2012 is much better than nothing.

How can we start an orginazation just for the calcasieu lake estuary. I know nothign about somthign like that but it seems that we the fishermen are really the only ones that are worried about changing the lake, and the current conservation organization are not helping to much. Or even just a group to try and start getting the word about the oystering that is goign to eventually kill the lake. Like someone i was talking to said most of the guys that are oystering the lake dont care about it disappearing and will not listen to anyone on the subject. It seems like it is goign to take a major group to make a change and get it through the house to pass a bill.

Same could be said for many of the fishermen that fight to keep the weirs open 24/7, 365. They claim the weirs are choking off the life-blood of the lake, when the marsh itself is the life-blood. The data presented last night clearly showed an increase in open water and more saline conditions when the weirs were not in place, or not being operated. Whether you agree or understand that there are inherent differences between a fresh and salt marsh is irrelevant, but there is a BIG difference between marsh and open water.

If Chuck posts those presentations, that data should be available shortly.

Why don't we start flooding the LC CCA meetings and asking questions there. This is what this organization is supposed to be there for. If that don't work, then make a move to form another organization. Before the legislative session and the STAR kicks off.

And if they ignore us, then we really have a lot to holler about and will probably have more people listen to us.

I didn't realize that there was so much full time flow between the lake and the marsh through the fish slots and lower gates being opened on moon cycles. If you are only concerned with access to the marsh and the boat bay is closed, you would say the weirs are closed all the time... when in essence the shrimp, fish, and crabs can travel back and forth in the provided slots.

Is water flow being restricted? Sure... but to say the weirs are totally choking off the lake of bait is just not true.

I think this is the best approach... if you use science and logic these people ultimately want what we all want. A healthy fishing estuary.

They NEED to have people that know this lake as well as the guides and local fishermen to help advise them on important issues. This doesn't mean everything suggested on this site is viable but that's why you have to back it up with science and data. To find out... maybe some of these ideas are great and will eventually get implemented. But if the director of CCA just recently heard about rocking the ship channel on the south end, then apparently our voices have not been loud enough within their organization.

Like them or hate them, CCA is already in place and has a lot of pull with the Commission and Legislature. I believe that going through them is the fastest way to achieve results.

I also believe the boycotting thing is an ok idea but I would go the opposite way... INFILTRATE their organization with like minded people and eventually you will have those people in positions of power to make the desired changes. You can't just sit on the computer and complain.... you have to get active with them and force your will.

Agreed


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