Wow! For the first time ever I agree with W.

Do it for*

Bandaid thumb on iphone

I think it's a lovely idea... while were at it... let go ahead and ensure that this covers alcohol (because from an intoxication standpoint its about 10X potentcy of weed), Cigarette's (Proven to cancer, no reason to waste public tax moneys to support people who are using a product that's proven to kill a LARGE PERCENTAGE of users over time), While were at it... we really need to re-think bath salts as well..... can't have any civil liberties for anyone who might possibly go all zombie on us can we.

Dammit i forgot about glue sniffing... well **** there goes all the model airplane guys.. Wonder if they will still be able to build model airplanes in their drug utopia world.

Rather see this? By your logic, guns should be treated just the same. Lets eliminate the need for responsible parenting and taking responsibility for ones actions, and just ban everything that could cause an uneasy situation.

I could accuse you of being a horrible parent for having guns, just like you accuse Ace of being a horrible parent for even support legalization of a substance safe than alcohol. But, I won't, because I respect your opinion as a person.

Funny libertarians get accused of wanting a utopia, but in reality all these laws and rules that are meant to prevent pain and hardship are the attempt at utopia..

---BURKESVILLE, Ky. (AP) — A 5-year-old boy accidentally shot his 2-year-old sister to death in rural southern Kentucky with a rifle he had received as a gift last year, authorities said.

The children's mother was home at the time of the shooting Tuesday afternoon but had stepped out to the front porch for a few minutes and "she heard the gun go off," Cumberland County Coroner Gary White said. He said the rifle was kept in a corner and the family didn't realize a bullet was left inside it.

White told the Lexington Herald-Leader the boy received the .22-caliber rifle as a gift.

"It's a Crickett," White said, referring to a company that specifically makes guns, clothes and books for children. "It's a little rifle for a kid. ... The little boy's used to shooting the little gun."---

Lmao Alcohol is legal for ages above 21


Weed is not legal


You people are fighting a loosing battle


I buy beer at store


You by weed from a drug dealer ( Non Degree pharmacist )

Nice work, this was taken while weed was illegal.... Smoooooooth

Love how you are trying to swing a illegal drug legal


Classic


Law says its illegal bottom line!!!

Hawg... I was very very clearly referring to the current system where these young ladies would be quite possibly doomed once it became know to law enforcement that they had rebelled.

I am not a proponent of selling weed to teenagers, I clearly responded earlier in this thread that I could not support selling of weed to teenagers, because they are the one and ONLY group (from 13-19 years of age) who have been shown through scientific study to have a long term impact on the growth of their brain if the have heavy cannabis abuse during that time period.

And honestly, "W" questioning my parenting skills, after he hasn't even answered my question on whether it's appropriate that cannabis based medication, scientifically PROVEN to help reverse alzheimer's should be allowed to be used to treat her.

W's approval is not something that i or frankly anyone else on this site, should use as a benchmark to prove anything.

Please note what i said in the post he is referring to " legalize the product, regulate it, Thereby taking the money out of the black market which provides it to underage girls.... " By taking the money out of the black market where drugs are sold illegally and legalizing,and regulating... you will severely impact the availability of the product to underage people who should not be getting it. Basically it's supply and demand laws at work. With sales to people of legal age going to government regulated shops, the availability of black market weed to underage people will drop.

See what i am getting at here? so please W & Hawg... Look a little bit more closely at what i'm saying.

W, how did alcohol become legal? I'm sure you learned about prohibition in school, right?

ComeOnMan

More illegal facts in case you don't understand


Federal laws say its illegal


You can drink beer all afternoon everyday after work and all weekend and go to work Monday take a drug test and be fine


You can not smoke weed every afternoon on weekends and take drug screen Monday and keep your job




See the difference between legal and illegal??

Beer vs weed??

W I will give you the benefit of the doubt if you say you have never drank in your boat, I don't believe it, but I will give you the benefit:rotfl:


Weed legalization isn't on any ballot in Louisiana, i don't foresee this even becoming an issue in the next 10 years, so why are we even on this topic?

Better yet....new solution. Lets tie the tax rate to the drugs you want to do!

Booze is a big one lets tax people who drink a little.

Pot is about the same but we need to add a few percent for the future cancer cases....or just tax cap'n crunch 600 percent.

Cocaine, that's a rich white dude drug so smack them dudes up to about 25 percent.

Heroin...we can have a "Patriotic" tax because we all know its just middle easterners and Mexicans who make that stuff.

Meth....just tax Drano , bug spray, lye and Sudafed...el done o.

I am a libertarian. I hate all laws that protect stupid people from themselves. I just like messing with dopers and their burnt out minds and religious commitment to their chemicals. It's like shakin a monkey cage.....and the monkey is stoned, lol. I guess you might say you guys getting stoned entertained me.

Your own words said these teenage girls were doing nothing wrong?? You rather them smoke weed than meth or beer??

So you see no problem with teenagers smoking weed from your own words

So this debate is about whether weed is legal or not? Gotcha, I must have misread the title.

Bottom line if i catch my child smoking weed!! Have mercy on her soul!!!

They difinately won't die from weed poisoning but alcohol poisoning kills ppl. Face it! You don't like it bc you were scared into not liking it. Nothing bad about it that's u but don't bash it and say someone is a bad person for doing it when they can smoke it tit for tat with u taking shots and they can drive and walk while if you took shots all night you couldn't walk, drive, or possibly not survive.

Where are the dopers? I don't even smoke, I can pass a test right this second and any day of the week. Hair, piss, whatever.

What the hell are you talking about, messing with dopers?

You are not a libertarian, go find another political affiliation.

What about underage drinking? Aka poisoning themselves and deliberately trying to kill themselves slowly

It's against the law, so it doesn't happen. *** are you thinking????

please quote said "own words" in context of the whole darn message and explain to me how i was saying that we should sell drugs to teens.

Now in the style of MG. If your critical thinking skills didn't allow you to understand clear english enough, and more importantly my further explanation enough, then perhaps you should relegate yourself to just catching trout.

Seriously W... i did not say give drugs to teens. If you read that i did, either you misread or i framed it in a way you did not understand.

If I catch my kid doing anything illegal...underage drinking, smoking weed, etc. thats his butt:rotfl:

The best thing in the world that could happen in my community would be to legalize marijuana and deregulate the whole thing. My question is where do we draw the line? There are heroin activists and probably even meth activists (you can tell by the cool neck tats). So at what point is an addictive substance acceptable? We have caffeine alcohol and chocolate. What is the limit?

What you gonna do, Beat her (someone will call CPS ------> off W goes to jail)

Yell at her.... (If she's rebellious enough to smoke in the first place i bet that will work)

Call the cops.. wooops... might not wanna do that one... it will get you a parent of the year nomination... you do that she become's a registered drug offender, goodbye realistic chance of career, good life, kids, etc... basically she's gonna have to fend for herself 100% because no one, is gonna give her a hand up. But i did hear that Mcdonald's put out a pamphlet on how you can survive on minimum wage. Maybe she can stay with daddy the rest of her life... ?? that might work.

Heck if she smokes it in todays environment, she will have to buy it from a dealer. Heck he might even give her a little sample of something a little better. Who know's how far she can go.

If weed were legalized, regulated, and controlled appropriately. It's very likely there would not be enough money in underage sales to justify an organized crime dealer being involved. Might just save your girls life bruh.

How about something that grows naturally and requires no processing?

Something that has grown naturally for thousands of years on every continent except Antarctica.

Something that cannot be overdosed on.

Sounds like it would be on the acceptable side of the line by a long shot, and alcohol may be on, or crossing over to the negative side of the line.

How's that sound?

:)

I'm starting to think you might enjoy a little bit of our Saltycajun Drama. :)

People that want to kill themselves will. Truth is if you look at cases like portugal, there will always be hardcore abuse, but post legalization the amount of the hard and soft abuse went down. Why... simply because the systemic issues were addressed. Getting tough on drugs got them to almost 10% of there society addicted. Decriminalization of everything has dropped the abuse rates there dramatically... check on page 1,2 or 3... i linked studies conducted in portugal and netherlands.

Of course... that's a given, any of us on here don't want anything but the best for their kids.

And since we have greater life experience and know the tragedies that can happen from drug use.... well we tend to get a little protective.

You know i have 2 adult age children, that we went through all these battles on. I have no doubt that there was some level of experimentation with things on their part. You know you have succeeded in raising a man or a woman, when they were willing to discuss things with you that they knew you would disapprove of.

Both have done very well in their lives, Our son is in the Airforce, Our daughter is doing well in an accounting office.

My wife and I enjoyed the experience so much that we Adopted a little boy who was a distant family member (yeah his biological mom is a addict and abandoned him in the hospital) 4 years after adopting him we found out she had another child that was abandoned as well (we just finished the adoption process on her)

Both were drug exposed at birth, and by the way some of you guys talk on here I should just go ahead and hang em out to dry. They done got the devil in em... might as well send em up the river.

But i am not gonna do that. Whatever it takes i am going to be there for them, whether they make a good choice or a very bad one. I am the father. It's what i do. And i will NOT fail in raising them well.

W, do you want your teenage girl having sex? Is underage sex legal, or should it be made illegal?

Did you ever drink alcohol when you were underage? How bout drink and go looking for some tail? One is legal, one is not, both can ruin lives - lets apply the 3 strike rule to these things too. Better yet, underage drinking or pre marital sex yield a minimum 15yr sentence. Getting hammered underage AND getting some gut at the same time should be mandatory life sentence.

Makes tons of "scents", right?

Did you see my little drug registrant rant...That is a dramatization of the system in Germany. The problem I have with using the Germans or the Dutch system is those problems they had a while back.....six million of them.

I am loving this drama. I am going to hop back and forth across this fence just to see who smoked out today and can't tell the difference or who reads the first line of a post and then freaks out.

Seriously, my community has been destroyed by illegal weed and the meth and heroin that come with wanting to double up on the profits. We have weekly murders and home invasion robberies in a town where the biggest problem used to be poaching deer on the golf course. This is because weed is worth so much and that is because it is illegal.

I would legalize it simply to take the money out of it and raise my children to hate anything that captures one so.

I don't buy the BS about it being beneficial or a miracle cure because that is just addicts trying to legitimize their poison. Alcoholics claim they get benefit from their drugs too.

Addiction is defined as doing something that you know can or will harm you. If you insist on smoking weed when it very well might cost you a job or take you away from your family, you are an addict.

Poking out my eyes with a flaming rhinoceros horn is bad. Does that mean that poking out my eyes with a nice clean new needle is good? Quit justifying your craving and just vote about it, and admit your addiction honestly.

Why does reality suck so bad we want to create an alternative? Maybe we should create a better reality, lets start by reducing government.

anybody catching any fish.........?

I think you just made w's head spin. :rotfl:

Easy there Hawg... someone is going to accuse you of rational thinking any second.

Realistically your right on the money.. the more you criminalize something that people do to thier own body. Then the more negative impacts there are going to be to everything.

I hope your wrong about there not being pharmacological value to the cannabis plant. I will leave it at I have some hope in some of the studies that i linked earlier (again in the page 1-4 or so range) (the british, israeli studies, the information about sativex (or whatever its called) and the video by gupta)

Perhaps these results might come to late to help my mom... but maybe they will help people in the future suffering from brain disease's like alzheimers.

I doubt it...

Didn't you know that "W" is a saint? The pope was supposed to cannonize him
next Thursday. Fortunately they called that off when they realized that W is still alive, and therefore cannot legitimately be called a Saint yet.

I heard in a news clip that the pope's excuse was he thought W was so saintly that he didn't even need to be dead to be a saint.

I think we really dodged a bullet here... could you imagine how full of himself W would be if he were to be cannonized and made a saint.

Saint Speckled Troutus... that was to be his name.

or was it Saint Bruh....

This is not the definition of addiction, you can't just state something false and claim it as fact.

You are right, poking your eyes out is bad no matte the object used to do so. But, does it warrant being criminalized? Again, the choice should be up to the person, and if they are dumb enough to do anything to the point that it negatively impacts their career or family, then they will have to live with the consequences.

On the subject of employers (not in your post), they should and do have the right to restrict employees from doing anything that they see unsafe or unfit - this is done now, there are companies that don't allow red bull and pre workout drinks on premises, or to be consumed at or before work. Legalizing pot and regulating it would be no different, it's up to the companies and industries to make their own decisions, just like its up to the employee to comply or go work somewhere else.

yep:)

some places don't allow you to have a beard as your mask will not fit correctly:eek:

Oh the horror! This is a free country, I should be able to do what I please:rotfl: They are restricting my liberties that amendment X protects:rotfl:

I see where all they true libertarians stand and I have to say I'm quite impressed. I like math geek thought this thread was going to go a different way.

I'm not going to make a public statement as to which side of this argument I am on. Let's just say it is the side of realism and sanity.

I just cant figure out why the Federal government is even involved.

Obviously it should be left up to the individual states.

The ONLY things the Fed government should provide to its citizens are a national defense and interstate commerce regulation. My .02

Carry on

Yeah. Every one has heard of NORML or the
National Organization for the Reform of Meth Laws.
Watch out for those meth activists.

:rotfl::rotfl:

LOL

"The "Gateway Theory" is a theory that the use of cannabis naturally leads to the use of heroin, cocaine, or other "hard drugs". This theory is often used to explain why cannabis use must remain criminal, despite cannabis use itself being less physically dangerous than many legal activities. Although the Gateway Theory has been repeatedly debunked and discredited by reviews funded by the White House, the Parliament of Britain, and the government of Canada, it continues to be used as an argument in both educational materials and political decisions.

Based on the data from the National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH), formerly named the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse, by SAMSHA, the percentage of those who have ever tried marijuana and then ended up using heroin once per month is around 1 in 1000. To explain this further, since the estimated number of monthly heroin users in the United Status in 2001 is 100,000, that is the maximum number of people who can have gone on to use heroin regularly after trying cannabis. Since there are an estimated 83 million people in the US who have ever tried cannabis, this works out to 0.12% (100,000 / 83,300,000). " - erowid.

Try again smalls.

The fact you have to go to a drug dealer is the gateway. These points you bring up are either irrelevant or so easily debunked it isn't even worth doing it anymore.

"Every adolescent who tried cocaine and heroin had tried cows milk previously":shaking:

I have no stance on this issue, because it will not affect me but some of these arguments are just junk

Don't feel bad though. This is a FBI director getting schooled on gateway theory.
http://t.co/ljfsqYgQqi

Well that's just it. Once all the facts are out there all you have left is junk and ideology.

Anybody have stats on marijuana related deaths every year? Deaths directly related to it, not some theoretical path of subjective probabilities either.

While you're searching, grab the stats on caffeine, tobacco, aspirin and alcohol and bring them back with you too.

I had a professor in college who taught ethics.
He owns his own pharamcy and has 7 college degrees.

If you took ethics at UL you know who I am talkimg about.

One chapter in this class was about drug use.
He stated that marajuana is 100% non addictive.

Unlike nicotine, alcohol, and even caffiene which have been proven to be addictive.

USL...only college in La that has a special class for queers

So his thoughts dont count

Honey Badger would disagree about it being addictive

Really... we went over this mess in pages 1-4 possibly including some contained in page 5. I would have thought that your good friend Mathgeek would have showed you all the studies linked by us heathen libertarian drug users.

In any case here is a short list of studies which refute the study's you have listed above.

Mathematical Model study

In December 2002, a study by RAND regarding if cannabis use results in the subsequent use of cocaine and heroin was published in the British Journal of Addiction, a peer-reviewed scientific publication. The researchers created a mathematical model simulating adolescent drug use. National rates of cannabis and hard drug use in the model matched survey data collected from representative samples of youths from across the United States; the model produced patterns of drug use and abuse. Andrew Morral, associate director of RAND's Public Safety and Justice unit and lead author of the study stated:[19]
We've shown that the marijuana gateway effect is not the best explanation for the link between marijuana use and the use of harder drugs ... An alternative, simpler and more compelling explanation accounts for the pattern of drug use you see in this country, without resort to any gateway effects. While the gateway theory has enjoyed popular acceptance, scientists have always had their doubts. Our study shows that these doubts are justified.
One reason the risk factor for using drugs in cannabis users is higher is because few people try hard drugs prior to trying cannabis, not because cannabis users increasingly try hard drugs such as amphetamines. For example, cannabis is typically available at a significantly earlier age than other illicit drugs. Further research has shown that people with a disposition to resort to cannabis use are more likely to live longer and healthier lives than users of other "social drugs" such as alcohol.[20]


Study on American adolescents (12 years)
In December 2006, a 12 year gateway drug hypothesis study on 214 boys from ages 10–12 by the American Psychiatric Association was published in the American Journal of Psychiatry. The study concluded adolescents who used cannabis prior to using other drugs, including alcohol and tobacco, were no more likely to develop a substance abuse disorder than subjects in the study who did not use cannabis prior to using other drugs.[21] In other words, rearranging the order of the alleged "steppingstones" did not change the outcomes.


Study on San Francisco vs. Amsterdam
In 2004, a study comparing cannabis users in San Francisco to those in Amsterdam was done to test the effects of the differing drug policies in the two cities on drug use patterns. The Netherlands has a drug policy of decriminalization in which cannabis can be bought by adults over 18 in quasi-legal "coffee shops" and used publicly, while in the United States cannabis is criminalized and must be bought in the black market (often from the same dealers that sell hard drugs) and used "underground". The results found that, compared with their counterparts in Amsterdam the San Francisco cannabis users were significantly more likely to use cocaine, crack, amphetamines, ecstasy, and opiates despite similar cannabis use patterns and a more permissive drug policy in the Netherlands.[22]


Rat studies
A study in 3-4 month old rats actually found reduced reinforcing potential of cocaine in those rats pretreated with THC compared with those treated with vehicle only.[23] Another rat study (28–49 days old, or 6.6–10.4 in human years) found that, while rats pretreated with THC consumed higher doses of heroin relative to controls, both groups took up self-administration of heroin at the same rate, and there was no significant difference between groups on the reinforcing effects of heroin.[24]


There are many, many, many more....... But for some strange reason i really doubt you will believe them.