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Ownership of the structure may also be different from management authority which appears to have been delegated several times to a contractor. As far as I can tell, the process of applying the right kinds of pressure to the contractor actually controlling the switches to better align openings and closings with scientific data, the goals of the weirs, and the desires of the public is much more involved than figuring out who owns the structure. I expect the contract is designed to insulate the contractor from demands of the public, is vague about the actual management plans, and specifies a government party to oversee the operation in a manner to obfuscate and frustrate accountability to the public or to scientific principles of operation. And I bet both the contractor and the government overseers are proud of themselves for these arrangements. |
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"Go ahead, share your opinion! I won't cry" |
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Hydrazine & MMH smell like fish . . . ;) |
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Yea billy Leonard's told me that sorry he works for the Refuge same guy that issues the permits... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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So why where u working for the state if u were on federal land??? Spend 3 weeks in a marsh and 30 yrs behind a computer and ur a resident expert??? Willing to bet u live more than a 100 miles from big lake??? I promise u the guides out here get more observations than the biologist do... Comin out and pulling a troll on 3 locations once a month don't amount to jack... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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I know exactly how much land is back there and i hunted all over back there for 6 years, until 2009. It was always good and we rarely missed limits. I hunt in lake arthur every day of the season now so i don't get to go back there any more, but i talk to 3-5 people daily who do hunt back there. From what i hear it's not as good anymore as it was for the few years after rita hit and everything was dead. |
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Its fine, I've grown accustomed to people just blowing off my experience and work. Pretty much why I left that work. People didn't appreciate the work I did, and I got tired of it. Why waste my time making measily money trying to save the marsh when no one else gives a damn?! I've studied the wetlands of southwest Louisiana extensively, have studied under tthe guys that did the job before me, and studied and worked under former and current marsh managers, but I guess that still means I don't know crap. I guess LDWF biologists and private landowners contacting me and coordinating with me on marsh revegetation projects doesn't mean squat either. Like I said, I've gotten used to being belittled. Figured if I'm going to be belittled, might as well do it while making good money. |
Show me some scientific facts that weir has made???? I fish the marsh east of Sabine see some yrs w lots of grass some w little depends on the rainfall that yr...those marshes are healthy w no weirs...so what if u get a salinity reading 15ft on the other side of the weir??? Go catch one 5 miles back and Itll be valid shutting a gate
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Do u agree grass can get hit w a high salinity then salinity lower a week later and it come back????
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What bout all the hogs tearing up the marsh losing tons of land there? But ain't ever heard a restoration guy talk bout that??
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I'm sorry I'm a hillbilly fishing guide w no education and u know everything Bc u planted some marsh grass....
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Nope vacation till may...
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J, I don't know what to tell you man. I'll ask you the same questions I asked W (which I got no answer to btw). Do you know the difference between oystergrass and wiregrass? Or between wiregrass and jamaican sawgrass? I'm not trying to be a smartass, just trying to make a point. The vegetation composition was different historically from what it is now.
Yeah, short term spikes happen, and its not going to kill the grass. That isn't the purpose of the weirs. The weirs were put in to decrease or hold in check a long term increase in salinity. It is the long term increase in salinity that is detrimental to a marsh, not the short term. As far as hogs go, yeah, you're right, they are tearing up the marsh. What does that have to do with the weirs though? I've said it before, I've got plenty of reports and papers on the marsh, and there are plenty more to be found online. It's just a matter of who wants to read them. It is clear I can't say anything that is going to change your opinion. I don't know what I said to make you think I'm belittling you, because I'm not. I've also never said I was an authority on the issue either; that is the assumption everyone jumps to. I'm just speaking from my experiences and research. But for God's sake, can anyone on here tell me the difference between oystergrass, wiregrass, and jamaican sawgrass? |
Hey smalls I can tell you the difference between them grasses. They all spelled different.lmao
Just messin with you man. I aint got a freaking clue. |
whats the difference?...let us in on the secret
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Only difference I need to know is my data books I been keeping for years are showing a decline like Enron Stock
I have data that shows my catches and places with tided,moons,etc..April 2010 by this date (not guiding) Boated over 350 trout ( 76 tagged) April 2014 to date 89 on 3 more trips |
Oyster grass grows in saltwater marsh Jamaican grows in freshwater
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What is the point??
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I've attached a document that shows some salinity tolerances of various plants. It is based on some older research, but it was some of the first research done on marsh vegetation in Louisiana, and I believe the same study was used to create the first vegetation type maps of Coastal Louisiana. Because this graph shows a range of salinity tolerances, salinities at the higher ends of those bars will produce lethal environments at extended periods. Oystergrass, or smooth cordgrass, is probably one of the most salt tolerant plants you will find in that marsh. However, it only occurs in the lower salt marsh. It is excluded from higher areas by wiregrass, or marshhay cordgrass. Marshhay cordgrass dominants the high marsh, which is what I would classify most of the cameron-creole as, except for the far east stretches. The problem that was occurring in the Cameron-Creole leading up to the construction of the weirs was marshhay die-offs due to extended high salinity, but probably more so high water. Marshhay cannot tolerate extended periods of high water, which is why it is restricted to the high marsh. The marshhay was dying from a combination of stressors, but oystergrass could not colonize the areas fast enough. Thus, you had areas converting to open water. The eastern stretches of that marsh are probably more dominated by bulrushes, cattails, and Sagitarria species, which are on the lower end of salinity tolerances. I have seen bulrush tolerate salinities of up to 23 ppt, but the grass was dormant and not growing much. Heavy rains the following year resulted in the plants growing considerably. |
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Is this close? |
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But for God's sake, can you please explain why you keep asking this question? It was starting to frustrate me so I decided to look up these plants. The only one I could find is the Jamiacan Sawgrass (Cladium jamaicense)... the other two I can't even find a reference to them online. Spill the beans... what's the importance? Or is it only important that the average joe person doesn't know the difference so we aren't qualified to have an opinion? |
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Yea 2 types grow in salt Jamaican grows in fresh... Wth hell is ur point??? Big nuts got a degree??? Guess what I got one 2!! Who gives a ****... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Can u show me acreage loss over a time span pre weirs and post weirs I bet u the loss average is the same with the exception of hurricane years
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My point is, there isn't a whole lot of that back there anymore. There used to be a lot of sturdy bulrush (or saltmarsh bulrush as some call it), in fact it was the dominant grass, but it isn't there anymore either. The marsh has converted to plant species that are not as desirable for wildlife, and are more susceptible to dying off under certain conditions. One issue I had with the operation of the weirs when it switched to contractors was when they were left closed for several weeks during the summer of 2012. We had a few heavy rains during that time span, and the water level got about 2 feet above the marsh, at least where there were a few plantings going on. All of those plants died, and a lot of the natural marsh around them was affected as well. |
Who owns the weir?? If it ain't federal I might know a guy that can do us all a favor taking donations for lawyer.... Can't get in too much trouble for criminal damage to property 1 yr probation and some restitution.
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Can't block off a navigable water anyways.
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What do you have against bulushes and cattails? I know they are not great duck habitat, but they are hardy, they will slow a tidal surge, and are fairly good at holding the ground underneath them from washing away. What am I missing? It it just a personal thing, or are they actually bad from the point of view of preserving the marsh? |
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The Spartinas are more salt hardy species. The difference is, S. alterniflora can tolerate more water than S. patens can. The two forms dominant different parts of the marsh. Patens typically dominates high marsh, Alterniflora dominates the lower marsh. In an natural setting, Patens will be limited in where it grows by water, while it will limit where Alterniflora can grow. |
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From the standpoint of marsh conservation, cattails and bulrushes aren't bad. For wildlife management, there are better species. Cattails and bulrushes will choke out a lot of other beneficial species, and will take over large expanses of water. Pretty much any freshwater project we had was a bulrush project. They are very sturdy plants, can tolerate salinities a lot better than some of the other fresh species, and, as you said, are good at dampening waves or surge. They spread like wildfire under the right conditions, and if you are trying to shore up a canal bank or lake shore, bulrush is the way to go. |
USo Smalls since you don't do this anymore what was they paying you per hour to plant and study grass? $7.50 -$10 an hour?
Do you realize Jarred and Me have other careers that we make great livings doing plus we guide damn near all our days off and we are making from $65-70 per hour to fish? So we have great motivation to be concerned about our Lake and the future but we are NOT dumb and know a lot more about this system then a guy out looking at grass all day! |
Jamaica grass stops 14 ft hurricane tide surge... That's all I've learned today!
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Onward with the discussion!! :D |
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And a guy who spent 3 summers picking grass has 50 years of expert knowledge of weir marsh People who spend over half a year on water are clueless |
I just want some dynamite donations!
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Where have I said anything to the effect that ya'll are wrong? Where have I said that you don't know what you're talking about. I'm merely presenting information on a part of the ecosystem that you, Waltrip, continually avoid openly discussing. You continually avoided my questions to you, because it didn't fit your agenda to answer them. There is no open discussion on the marsh with you. It has always been, and will always be, a one-sided discussion with you because you will not listen to anything anyone else says that is to the contrary. Do you deny that? |
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please send some of that salt to Vermilion Bay!
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Show me where the weir has done anything to land loss!!! Remember scientific data speaks more than guides a that see it everydat
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What makes you an expert on the marsh? Because you fish over half a year? How does that make you an expert on the marsh? Funny that you want limits based on research, but yet when someone is speaking from research on a topic, its not true. |
Where's the research??? U learned different types of grass making 15$ hr planting grass??? Show me an acreage land loss rate pre weir and post weir.... That's research... We don't need dr. Zeus encyclopedia on types of grasses
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Blowing up any water control structure will be treated as an act of domestic terrorism. Being found illegally possessing explosives anywhere in the Calcasieu Estuary will be suspected as such. How far up your butt do you want the FBI and BATFE? Blowing stuff up without all the proper permissions and permits will be treated as a federal matter. Any damage that might result to a NWR will be tacked on as additional charges in addition to the explosives violations and domestic terrorism prosecutions. Are you under illusions that this kinda crap is not exactly what Eric Holder's justice department is waiting to pounce on? Please, please don't go there. |
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I'm just going to throw this out there because no one has really mentioned it...
Could it be that the erosion in the lower ship channel (9-mile/supercut) area over time has increased the need to keep the weirs closed more over time? Maybe the weirs were a proactive approach to land loss and as the erosion has gotten worse and worse over the years there is a greater and greater need to keep the weirs closed more often. Does anyone have any average salinity reports from both sides of the weirs from when they were first constructed until current dates? I think that would be interesting to see and add a lot to understanding the issues here. Either way, It sounds like this is a very complex problem that isn't going to be fixed with dynamite. |
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The closest I can get to that right now is a land/water analysis on the entire Calcasieu/Sabine Watershed. This is from data available on the CRMS Spatial viewer (http://lacoast.gov/crms_viewer2/Default.aspx), so if you want to check my numbers, please do so. The total land area in the watershed in 1956 was 477,929 acres. The total land area in 1988 (last year pre-weirs) was 370,089 acres. The total land area in 2008 (last year of quantification) was 344,585. So from 1956 to 1988, the rate of loss was approximately 3370 acres per year. From 1988 to 2008, the rate of loss was approximately 1275 acres per year. That is across the entire watershed though. I will see if I can dig up some of the maps I've found that show the differences in land loss, but I'm not sure if I've ever come across any that just specifically analyze the cameron-creole. |
Need 2008 to 2014 to make any kinda conclusion
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What happened in 88 to prevent land loss???
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