Another intelligent post by W.

Those online classes from UH for professional meter readers are clearly paying off.

Gateway theory.... In another form.

If you learned how to ride a bike, Then it's likely your going to become a "Hell's Angel" riding a big MOTOR BIKE.

If you learned how to fish with a cane pole from your granpa while fishing with crickets, Then statistics and studies show that you will become the CEO of a GILLNETTING company, that kills and can's all dolphins they catch for the fun of it.

If you learned how to shoot a shotgun by shooting skeet, the gateway theory proves that you will end up being a serial murder who will have at least 87 victims. All will be killed with a bb gun to the temple.

USL fan Mad



Awwwwwww sha so cute!!!

Every college has a gay/lesbian support group....do I agree with it? Hell no! Do some research before you try to discount someone without the facts. Go along with the rest of the sheepople and stay ignorant.

On an unrelated side note this study that your referencing is from the early 90's. Additionally it was a study commissioned and funded by "The National Task force on Cannabis" a group out of Australia. I cannot find any mention of if this was a governmental task force or a private one.

Either case certainly not a current, and quite possibly not an unbiased opinion at all.

In comparison the 4 counter studies I have linked could all be considered both current, and relatively unbiased.

Quick video for people that don't want to read....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4hV3CCMdus

After this thread http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lf...ewqko1_400.gif

Oh and here's some interesting data from the 2005 National Survey of Drug use and Health done here in the good old USA.

Alcohol[edit source | editbeta]

Both alcohol and tobacco tend to precede cannabis use, and it is rare for those who use hard drugs to not have used alcohol or tobacco first.[3] Data from the 2005 National Survey of Drug Use and Health (NSDUH) in the United States found that, compared with lifetime nondrinkers, adults who have consumed alcohol were statistically much more likely to currently use illicit drugs and/or abuse prescription drugs in the past year.[25] Effects were strongest for cocaine (26 times more likely), cannabis (14 times more likely), and psychedelics (13 times more likely). In addition, lifetime drinkers were also six times more likely to use or be dependent on illicit drugs than lifetime nondrinkers.[25]
As with cannabis, this correlation does not, however, necessarily mean that alcohol is a gateway drug (i.e. a causal relationship). In addition, whether one tries alcohol or cannabis first before the other does not accurately predict later substance use disorders.[21]
One study found that, in the United States, raising the drinking age to 21 in the 1980s was correlated with an increase in cannabis use among high school seniors, the opposite of what the gateway theory would predict. This suggests that the two substances are substitutes rather than complements. Interestingly, state decriminalization of cannabis did not predict an increase in cannabis use; rather, it predicted a mild decrease in both alcohol and cannabis use. Higher alcohol prices, however, appeared to reduce the use of both substances, suggesting at least partial complementarity (though not necessarily a gateway).[26]

Based on this, it seems like alcohol and not weed is the real gateway drug!

Man where is that picture of W with the beer can!!!! LOCK HIM UP I SAY!!!!! 5 years for first offense...

Well, I've learned a few things tonight...The Feds may be watching what I post...I'm an FFL so, I'm certain the ATF knows what I'm doing all the time. I DO NOT do drugs. I HAVE done them...I had a good time with most of them to boot!

Some people are willing to kill their kids for smoking a joint, apparently! It's the equivalent of a muslim girl taking to a Christian boy or, showing her face in public.

Some people think it should be a 20 year prison sentence for possession of a joint but, think that the distraction of texting and driving is fine.

Some others think that, if the conversation isn't going their way, the comparison of pedophilia and, permiscuous thinking are the only alternative.

Likely, while drug use should be forbidden because it will make you a total moron, being a drop out must be ok.

As I sit here, drinking a beer (because it's legal), I can't help but to think that the day the US declared a "war on drugs" was the day that we lost the fight. Bottom line...it's illegal. Can anyone tell me why the beer I am drinking RIGHT NOW is legal and, the joint my neighbor may be smoking right now isn't? Who has longer lasting effects? My head may hurt tomorrow and, even without a beer, I won't graduate from Harvard! His may hurt as well. What is the difference?

Not one time did I hear anyone mention that going to work under any sort of intoxication was a good idea. Not one time did I see mentioned that a mother-to-be should smoke weed or, do cocaine. Not one time did I see mentioned that a parent, alone with their kids, should get drunk or, stoned.

For me, what it boils down to is, going into a man's home and, telling him what to do. What is the difference between me drinking a 12 pack last night or, my neighbor smoking a joint? I guarantee you, even if he smoked a joint, he didn't burn an LSU flag just because they lost a game! Heck, he probably burned a J with the O line after the game!

Way to sum it up Southern!

Actually I wish this thread would just go away, tired of seeing it.

Well, that's easy enough to take care of...:rolleyes:

I see some people are still trying to say Alcohol is same as weed

Again Alcohol is legal after 21 years of age. Weed is illegal and must be purchased by a drug dealer


You can not compare the two anymore....Its like saying Gold is same a copper.....Pkease stop comparing these two. Weed is a drug that is illegal

Alcohol and tobacco are legal and people die from it everyday. Nuff said...you honestly think the people that make these laws are concerned about our health? Addiction = more product = more money.

Alcohol was made legal by who? The government.

Weed was made illegal by who? The government.

Do you understand that?

And on a side note I see that other people still can't add two plus two anymore...

I don't know if you happened to notice or not.... But this discussion was started to be one discussing different viewpoints on why drugs should or should not be legalized.

It was not started to determine if you would be able to figure out if weed is currently or is not currently illegal.

On a side note, in light of that fact that you have indeed determined that weed is currently illegal in Louisiana. I would say your making good progress in your quest to develop your mind to something higher than pre-school stage.

:):):rotfl:

I generally dont jump in on stuff like this but I have seen first hand that weed can be addictive. Also that people that smoke are more likely to do other drugs. I dont care what studies y'all cite, and I dont need to answer me but I would bet at least 70-80% of people that smoke weed, have been offered and most likely taken some other form of mind altering chemical(not alcohol), at least once in their life, and not necessarily from the guy they buy their dope from. Do I believe the government should be able to tell you what to do in your own house? No, of course not, but to say there is no ill effects from smoking weed long term is false. It impairs your driving and your ability to function rationally.

If it is non addictive, why are people willing to go to jail to do it?

If it is non addictive why do people pay so much for it and it is always in demand.

If it is non addictive why does it work on the pleasure centers of the brain and release dopanine the same as caffiene, alcohol, and cocaine.

We has a college professor here kill his wife, behead her, and eat part of her...what does that do to your argument. If your professors status and education makes him right about addiction, my professor makes yours a cannibal.

BTW you can't teach ethics, you have them or you don't.

The journal articles seem to conflict on whether or not cannabis is a gateway drug. It sure seemed to work that way for a number of my relatives as well as friends and acquaintances in high school. One day they are smoking a bit of pot, then down the road they are dropping out of school and impacted by the harder stuff.

Whether or not marijuana is truly a gateway drug for individual abusers, it does seem like libertarians are using it as a gateway drug in their legalization strategy: legalize cannabis now, then push for legalization of "harder" drugs later.

Weed is only legal in some States not Federal Government

Do you understand that?? Weed is illegal in every State by Federal law

1. Because people know its a silly law.

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."
Thomas Jefferson

2. It's just supply and demand. Your assuming everyone wants to get drunk.
Prohibition is what keeps the price up making all those drug dealers you hate rich.

3. Yeah. Smoking a joint and murder. Those to things are equated.

Yea that was a stupid statement by Mako that weed is not additive..... my own brother was addicted to weed for years until he finally grew up and got help!

But I guess that USL professor was a pot head in denial

Look you guys. Weed is so powerful and dangerous it even makes people who don't use it lose their minds.

Addictive

Cheeseburgers
Video games
Soda
Touching yourself
Etc.


Doesn't really matter. Marjuana isn't physically addictive but psychologically it is and so what. Fishing is addictive in those regards.

I have a friend who is a loser. Doesn't smoke pot but stays inside all day plays video games , smoking cigs and drinks red bulls. No job. People tend to never want to believe that a loser could be in their family or circle. If you chose to you can be addicted to anything.
I'd wish he get some help.

Well, I have to say that the debate has been a good one. My closing argument will be brief.

I do not condone nor, condemn the use of weed. Personally, I don't see what's any different about it than the beer I had last night, aside from the obvious(yes, I know and, knew before it was pointed out). There are two judges in life. One is in the court of law and, the other is waiting for my final day on Earth. I'm not either one so, I won't stand on a high horse and, think I know what everyone should do.

Since religion was brought into this debate, "Let he who live without sin cast the first stone."~Somewhere in the Bible.

If you drink or smoke, you should not be pregnant. You should not attempt to fly a 747. You should not try to complete your doctorate thesis statement and, you damn sure shouldn't try to drive. If you smoke, do like me when I have a beer, sit on the back patio and, just chill out. I won't judge you for it.

I agree that the journal articles are slightly conflicting, I view this as a natural result of attempting to "prove" that cannabis is not a gateway drug. There are always going to be associations between cannabis, alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, meth, etc. Because a human being will possibly choose to imbide / use more than one of those at a time.

However what is clearly shown, is that there is no "gateway" from one leading to the other. In point of fact based on the study on alcohol, even though it has a much higher comparative rate of association between alcohol use and various "harder" drug use. The researcher correctly goes on to define that this is still not a gateway.

Additionally, I am not the libertarian party, I happen to call myself a Libertarian, and I happen to agree with most of their viewpoints. Earlier in this discussion we discussed the results of Portugals 12 years of de-criminalizing of all drugs, I stated then that a case could be made that this would be the way to actually go. If you choose to be results oriented then it's quite easy to agree with that, basically rates of addiction for all drugs (hard, soft) have dropped dramatically. Whether this was a combination of drugs becoming "uncool" & effective repairs to how the state systemically handled abusers... I don't know.

Before legalizing / de-criminalizing hard drugs here in the states, this certainly is an area which begs of more non biased study, to find out how best to minimize their use. While we are doing that, we should also be looking at / conducting studies on the current legal abuse of various opiate based drugs. I suspect that once we stop criminalizing drug use, once we address some of the systemic issues, once we have the government / free market undercut the dealers / cartel's money base we will see the same reduction in overall drug use as Portugal has in the last 12 years.

Weed is not addictive... This is not some scientist's / doctor's conjecture or one off study it is as you say "the Fact, Jack"

What weed is accepted to be is dependency forming. That means that when you regularly use it, you enjoy its use, and the experience of using it enough that you voluntarily want to continue doing so.

This is the exact same process that we go thru in the enjoyment / use we get from things like fishing, hunting, eating good food, eating junk food, sex, and / or anything that you regularly find enjoyment in doing.

If you were supposed to go fishing tommorrow, and you were unable to go "for whatever reason" and your fishing dependant. You would be a little bit sad, but would basically say, "well there will be another time that i can chase them trots" and then you would go on and take care of all the things that day that you needed to. Like any normal person would.

If however you had a PHYSICAL ADDICTION to fishing, upon learning of not being able to go, and as the physical addiction began causing it's chemical affects. You would become physically incapable (due to convulsions, withdrawal rage, pain etc) of doing anything else (productive or not) until either your addiction was given to you, or until withdrawals from the chemical stopped impacting your body.


In regards to your brother, I commend him for seeking help and curing his dependancy to weed. Like alcohol some people can become very dependant on it, It is however fortunate that he did not have to go thru the physical symptoms of a drug / alcohol addiction in addition to dealing with his dependancy. That would have been even worse for him. I hope he does well in the future, and if he does choose to use in the future, i hope he is able to keep it to a non regular / recreational use level.

lol. you and your flip flopping.. :):shaking::smokin::D

I understand the scientific distinction between physiologically addicting and what you call "dependency forming" which is also often called psychologically addicting in the scientific papers.

The practical difference is how quickly the addiction can form. But once the addiction is formed, how much does it matter? Honey Badger was hooked on weed and could not quit even though the stakes were very high for him. He went from being a Heisman finalist and very promising LSU player to being a washed out loser in no time. His inability to quit smoking dope cost his LSU teammates, the LSU fans, and his own college football experience dearly.

Let's blame the evil weed, and not the idiot that made those decisions. Let's blame the guns and not the idiots running around killing people.

The fact is if he were hooked on alcohol he would be cool. Weed being illegal made him a washed up loser, not the affects that weed had on him as an athlete. The perception and ignant law in place by fear mongers like yourself is what made him a "loser".

^^ ding ding ding

I'm sure Matthieu was a straight laced guy before weed. Church every Sunday and I heard he would go out of his way to help old ladies across the street.

On a side note, Willie Nelson has been "on weed" for 127 years and I'm pretty sure he has never done heroin.

The most educated guy on the site, and the high school drop out (both have never "done weed") have the same argument - the irony. Then you have us realists that fall somewhere in the middle, the place I like to call Awesome.

I have no doubt that you clearly understand the distinctions, I chose to lay them out in plain terms for others who are showing that they are not sure about what the differences are between the two.

I can't speak to the honey badger situation because i haven't kept up with it. But i do know that you can be dependant on many things to an extent that you cause detriment to your own life. Gambling, Fishing, Hunting as well as many other things have caused plenty of headaches to plenty of people, That does not constitute a valid reason for imposing criminal / civil / and moral penalties on the acts of gambling, fishing, hunting... etc...

On a side note, I welcome your return to a facts based open discussion without personal attacks. It am happy to return to that between us as well.

"Once absorbed, THC and other cannabinoids are rapidly distributed to all other tissues at rates dependent on the blood flow. Because they are extremely lipid soluble, cannabinoids accumulate in fatty tissues, reaching peak concentrations in 4-5 days. They are then slowly released back into other body compartments, including the brain. Because of the sequestration in fat, the tissue elimination half-life of THC is about 7 days, and complete elimination of a single dose may take up to 30 days. Clearly, with repeated dosage, high levels of cannabinoids can accumulate in the body and continue to reach the brain. Within the brain, THC and other cannabinoids are differentially distributed. High concentrations are reached in neocortical, limbic, sensory and motor areas."-Pharmacology and the effects of cannabis: a brief review

And it destroys you, just like heroin - use it once, next thing you know you will be blowing drug dealers for your next fix and developing sores all over your body, shortly followed by Hep and HIV.

Gtfo

Les Miles kicked Honey Badger off of the team for breaking team rules long before Honey Badger had any trouble with the law over his weed habit.

Are you saying the coach of a college football team can't have and enforce the rules he sees necessary for maintaining order and discipline?

Are you saying that college football players should have a "right" to smoke weed even if their schools, coaches, and the NCAA disagree?

I would think the libertarian position would be that coaches, institutions, and employers still should have the right to make and enforce the rules they deem necessary, even if cannabis is legalized. Have I misunderstood?

I would have hoped for a more polite response to a young lady and recently added SaltyCajun member.

"Gtfo." Wow! Can you get any more rude?

Get high, get stupid, get AIDS.

No argument here, This study basically shows scientifically that THC in cannabis causes people to get high (okay......) it also goes on to state that other cannabinoids compounds remain in the system for up to the 4-5 days listed. It's these other pharmacological compound that medical science is most interested in for their curative functions. However the non THC parts of cannabis do not have mind altering properties. So it really does not matter if they stay in your body for 4-5 days.

The compound THC may or may not stay in your body for 4-5 days (i'm not sure if it does or not) However it's high inducing ability most certainly does not stay in the body for that time period.

That's probably a good thing for drug dealers though, They would never be able to make money on a drug that kept people high for 4-5 days.

Earlier in this discussion we went into some depth on the prospective pharmacological benefits of these other cannabinoids.

Cannabis still remains as a non addictive substance which when consumed can cause a person to become high. However the person remains in complete control of their mind and body in making the decision to become high.

That means cannabis is no different than fishing / hunting / etc. it does not even have the physical addiction cycle of alcohol / nicotine. It's only commonality is that it promotes dependance.

The courtesy levels on both sides of this argument have been less than spectacular as of late.

How about we lead the charge to change it back to a scientific discussion, rather than muddle the water by continuing the cycle of personal attacks?

Does the science that we have gone over and you have objectively agreed to mean nothing to you?

I am 100% certain that you are completely aware that this is not a logical argument that you have just made, and am also 100% sure that it is purely an emotional one.

One could just have easily say "She ate Peanut butter, it made her happy, a serial killer then killed her because he hated happy people"

You can't have it both ways MG.... what is it going to be... Logic or Emotion?

Check this out. Acting DEA head gets grilled.
http://t.co/IXNzkf25yz

I can go cry to the owner and have the thread closed if it doesn't go the way I wanted.

Tell me how you know Miss is a lady? All his/her posts are on this thread, please let me know....

Interesting.

okay, but recreational use of a drug with no demonstrable negative effects, as well as a few possible health benefits are in and of itself not an adverse effect of cannabis.

all the same things that can occur when any thing that someone builds a dependancy on is taken away.

But the FACT remains that cannabis is not an addictive substance.

Active THC is out of blood in 7-8 hrs. Stays in fat cells longer but it is metabolized and metabolites are not psychoactive.

This really is easy.

You oughta see me when I don't have my coffee in the morning!:work::pissed:

Would coffee fall under the same addiction problems? If so, shouldn't it be illegal?