Thanks for looking that up Clampy, Here is a link to a scientific description of THC which shows that the it's actual effects in the blood continue for at most 3 hours. I would imagine that all traces of it would be gone by the 7-8 hour period that you refer to.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Te...403100443-full

This is why Washington state enacted a 5 ng/mL per say DUID law. If you are suspected of being stoned behind the wheel you are subject to a blood test. 5 ng/mL is considered too stoned to drive.

" Although the addictive potential of cannabis is often compared with the addictive potential of alcohol and tobacco, the author concludes that the characteristics of cannabis tolerance are similar to those of opiate dependence." -The addictive potential of cannabis.

It's interesting to note the following statement on that same site under withdrawal

Withdrawal.
THC does not produce a severe withdrawal syndrome. Heavy users, however, frequently report insomnia, nervousness, mild stomach upset, and achy muscles—particularly if they stop their use suddenly.

I don't drink coffee but my wife does, and I would say she is a lot more irritated than any of the above is she doesn't get her coffee every morning.

I have posted the sound science showing that cannabis increases the incidence of risky sexual behavior, including sex with multiple partners and sex without condoms. Here's more:

Multiple studies suggest an association of marijuana use with increased rates of sexual risk behavior and sexually transmitted diseases (STDs). - Associations of marijuana use and sex-related marijuana expectancies with HIV/STD risk behavior in high-risk adolescents

Are we only cherry picking particular statements in biased studies for materiel now?

well in that case here is my contribution; Oh but mine is from a non biased source.

Research has shown the overall addiction potential for cannabis to be less than for caffeine,[19] tobacco, alcohol, cocaine or heroin, but slightly higher than that for psilocybin, mescaline, LSD.[44] In a survey conducted by NIDA in 1994, epidemiologist James Anthony found that of those who tried marijuana at least once, about 9 percent eventually became addicted. While this is not negligible, it was still lower than other drugs which were evaluated. The corresponding figure for alcohol was 15 percent; for cocaine, 17 percent; for heroin, 23 percent; and for nicotine, 32 percent.[45]


9 percent vs.... 15,17,23, and 32 percent? Oh and that's only if we refer take the very very loose definition of saying that dependancy and addiction are basically the same thing.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...brain-on-drugs

Are we discussing actual facts on cannabis use & whether it should be legalized, Or is this actually a discussion about Mescaline and LSD?
Which is what the study you linked to discusses.

I mean because obviously frying an egg in a pan and naming the egg "your brain" is a logical and scientific method.

So again, are we having a conversation based on logic & science. Or is it to be Emotion and Extremism?

Documented study from a non biased source, indicating that even among homeless and runaway youth who were substance abusers. No correlation was found that they would not use condom's and thereby prevent HIV infections.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...54139X98000330

Additionally NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON in this discussion has indicated that they support governmental sales of weed to underage children. A couple people have attempted to make that accusation toward me, but I have clarified that my position is as follows;

Legalization and governmental regulations and controls would undercut the current money base of drug cartels and organized drug crime. I believe that it's very likely that not enough money will remain in underage drug dealing to make it a profitable venture for dealers. If we were to dedicate a small percentage of the police & enforcement cost of the "war on drugs" to putting pressure on dealers who would try to create an underage market. We could quite possibly make it a very unprofitable business.

The original post was intended to discuss the Libertarian position, which includes legalizing all drugs, not only marijuana as the gateway drug to broader legalization. In this thread, contributors explicitly have advocated legalizing not only cannabis, but also mushrooms and other soft drugs. Advocates have held out Portugal, which has legalized every imaginable model, as a positive example. Many contributors have specifically lauded the libertarian position, which is much broader than cannabis alone.

There is plenty of good science to show that cannabis and many other drugs have a negative impact on brain function. To be sure, the commercial, "This is your brain on drugs" is a bit oversimplified and was targeted at an adolescent audience. But the message has solid scientific support. See:

Cannabinoids derived from herbal cannabis interact with endogenous cannabinoid systems in the body. Actions on specific brain receptors cause dose-related impairments of psychomotor performance with implications for car and train driving, aeroplane piloting and academic performance. - Pharmacology and effects of cannabis: a brief review

Say nope to dope

Yes that is the point. It is an intoxicant. .

The original post was not about this it was about a different subject, You branched it into this post which is titled "Answering the Libertarian argument for drug legalization" However you have attempted to use said post for both non scientific conjecture and to forward your personal agenda / opinion.

With that said, it is stated by the Libertarian party that they believe that the best course of action with all drugs is legalization / de-criminalization. It is also the overwhelming opinion of the worlds scientific community that legalization / de-criminalization is the most effective method by far to combat drug use.

It is NOT the libertarian party's position to eliminate underage substance abuse laws..... And you know it.

As Governor Johnson often points out to concerned parents, "it will never be legal for a person to smoke marijuana, become impaired, and get behind the wheel of a car or otherwise do harm to others, and it will never be legal for kids to smoke marijuana."

It is in point of fact the Libertarian party's position (which i agree with) that legalization & regulation will have the greatest possible impact upon drug availability to underage children.

America has cut teen cigarette use in half, not by criminalizing possession and use, but through a combination of honest education and sensible regulation. That's what been shown to be effective.


You linking the commercial has nothing to do with the message being oversimplified, It's being done as a simple emotional plea to justify your unreasonable and unscientific stance on this discussion.

And just like clampy said, that's the point of using cannabis. So no need to debunk this study, because it effectively means nothing of relevance to this discussion.

Dang....yall boys still on this one huh? Its getting deep up in here. Sounds to me like a.a.&mh need to go fishing, burn one, and squash it.

Whats really at question here is do you actually want your children to end up as drug user's of any type.

If you continue with the extraordinarily bad policies of criminalization that have been part and parcel of the "War on drugs" you are being part of what is making the drug culture more powerful in america each and every day. Every year that the real issues are ignored, drug cartel's earn an estimated 64 BILLION dollars in profit. Like any other successful business they return a large portion of their profits to improving there business model.

The business model they are trying to achieve is to have every single person as an addict under their thumb. By continuing to play into their hands, we are just making that more of a reality every single day.

The most effective efforts to date to reduce drug use by adolescents in the United States was a combination of Reagan's "Just Say No!" campaign with diligent enforcement of existing laws:

High school seniors using cannabis dropped from 50.1% in 1978 to 36% in 1987, to 12% in 1991 and the percentage of students using other drugs decreased similarly. Psychedelic drug use dropped from 11% to 6%, cocaine from 12% to 10%, and heroin from 1% to 0.5%.

If scientists in other countries want to legalize drugs, let them do it in their own countries, and we'll see over decades if these countries prosper and grow or decline. Likewise, let's keep an eye on Colorado and California before we rush into the abyss.

They couldnt do that. Everyone knows. After 1 hit they would chase down a shrimp boat and try and score some meth.

This thread won't die until 420 comments.

they'd be laying the 8 on every pilgrim on the lake.

Ha ha.

Reagan's program to some extent... Possibly... overzealous enforcement via war on drug laws.... mandatory minimum sentencing, 3 strikes rules... MOST DEFINETLY not.

The most effective drug management programs have not come from the US.

Why should we not take cue's from other countries successes and failures in regards to handling drugs. Are american people made somehow fundamentally different than everyone else on the face of this world? Are you saying that we are sub-standard as compared to others? Are we not intelligent enough to figure out 2 + 2 equals 4? Are we as american's not bound by the same laws of science and physics as is the rest of the world.

can someone please give me the layman's terms of laying the 8? i have seen it mentioned here a few times but i'm not getting the reference.

We certainly have some valid case studies on how a continued march to the tunes of Criminalization and Enforcement works.

Simply look to the example's of Nazi Germany, and Stalinist Russian. Dissent, Drug use, Being of questionable ethnicity, Homosexuality...... etc all led to a rather final form of criminalization and it was enforced by brainwashed thugs in jackboots (some in black uniforms and some in brown one's) It's well documented that the death camps were originally envisioned by the nazi party as a whole and Hitler in particular as holding zones for undesirables. Who could then be used as forced labour.

If you destroy someone's life by criminalizing to a outrageous extent some small unimportant thing they are doing which really only effects them. Then they end up in the repeating jail cycle. and effectively end up with a sentence of life in jail. How is that really any different than gassing them and sending them to the oven. Either way you have taken away all personal liberties from them. Only realistic differences are in there method you die sooner rather than later, in our method we place the financial burden up our citizens to feed and house them.

LOL.... you ain't right.

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.....

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Attachment 54740

Alcohol legal after 21 years of age

Weed illegal by federal laws !!

Again there is zero to compare



If you want to find legal things as dangerous as Alcohol go ahead

Paints, gas, diesel, asbestos, etc



But if you want to post illegal things bad as weed
Meth, cocaine, etc

So what you are saying Dubya, is if the federal laws change and marijuana is made legal you would have no problem with it?

Visine stocks are about to explode! LMAO.

What about federal gun laws ? After all big Brother knows best right ?

If Federal law makes it legal and puts a age on it...not much we can say

Will Federal ever make it legal, I don't see it in the near future. So until then its an illegal drug that calls for jail time ! So you can not compare weed vs alcohol

http://www.drugabuse.gov/sites/defau...use-risk_0.jpg

The above graph shows that high school use of marijuana increases when perceived risk is low and decreases when perceived risk is high.

How are most high school students likely to perceive the risk of marijuana use if it is legalized for adults?

Do they ever buy the argument that something is safe for adults, but risky for teenagers?

Attachment 54744
The above graph shows we can clearly do this all day !

Well gosh darnit W. We have already established that you know this thread is not about whether or not weed is legal / illegal. You already got a gold star because you figured out that weed is illegal. You don't get another for saying the same thing again.

Gotta learn a new trick to get another gold star.... Silly W.

I perceive that there is no graph.. However,

It doesn't matter how they perceive it... if they can't gain access to it because we have effectively regulated it.???????????

Sad that no one bothered to answer this question. To busy sifting through all the scientific data and trying to find "clips" to support there personal agenda and opinion i suppose.

I can't even say anything... just shaking my head... wow.

....

Hey MathGeek
 

Hey MathGeek you are needed on the 'wiers' thread, will you post a pic of east side of Big Lake from the same site you got that pic you posted?

Lol

Come on it ain't meme time yet is it.

420 or bust !!!

Ace...serious question!!

Lets say weed is legal " how much bud do you burn a day"?

Attachment 54756

Can't speak for Ace but this would be me every Sunday during football season !

I think this graph best describes my point...


Attachment 54757

W.... really this is the same "Serious" question that i have already answered like 40 times in this thread. None... Tried it once when i young, realized that all it really did for me was make me hungry, and considering you can already post a "wide load" sign on my butt i realized that it was not a good idea for me to use it.

If weed became legal, and even if i no longer gave a crap how big i got. Still wouldn't buy it and smoke it. Because i am such a cheapskate. :*****:

I think that perhaps all of you think that there is 0 chance that a clean person would be willing to support this.

Well i will tell you what. You spring for a drug test at a location (within 30 mins drive for me) of your choosing and type of drug test (hair, piss, as long as they don't try and tell me they need to do a rectal search) And i will do the test and post the test results here with my personal information blacked out.

I know that i am clean. But i also know that i have no desire to continue creating a police state that continue's to ruin peoples lives for stuff that just does not matter.

I wish you had the legal right to do so, Although you should really think about cutting back on your caffiene intake... That stuff's bad for you!