Weirs
 

Todays Lake Charles paper, 6.94 inches of rain yesterday, 14.51 month to date, thats 8.4 inches more than normal this month and we are 2.69 inches ahead for the year, yet the weirs are still closed, what do we need to open? another storm

Guess we'll all find out in about a week and a half. The thing is, where was all that rain? That could be a rain gauge downtown. I guess if its coming from NOAA or something, it might be from the airport. I know there was A LOT of rain yesterday across the area, but has 14.5 inches fallen across the entire area for the month?

I can remember days where we got down pours at mom and dad's south of town, but pawpaw was saying they didn't get a drop in town.

The rain we have been getting hasn't been popcorn summer downpours, the systems have covered nearly the entire state

The big problem is that since the erosion of the land barrier between the lower lake and ship channel, the lower lake is much more strongly coupled to the Gulf of Mexico and has much higher salinities. The two attachments show the salinity as measured at Hackberry and at Cameron. Since the erosion of the land barrier and increased coupling between the lower lake and lower ship channel, the salinity on the lake side of the weirs is closer to that at Cameron than at Hackberry.

If the coupling between the lower lake and ship channel could be reduced so that the lower lake had salinities closer to Hackberry, then the weirs could take greater advantage of fresh water infusions and be open more days per year without allowing too much salt to enter the marsh. Salinity levels below 8-10 parts per thousand (ppt) present much less risk to the marsh than levels above 15-20 ppt, which is where Cameron (and the lower lake) have spent most of the month of June.

Didn't say they were. We have been getting the same systems y'all have. But, that doesn't change the fact that some areas may get significantly more rain than others. There are parts of Prairieville that have received 9 inches of rain in some of these storms, but other areas near by have not received half of that.

Its been sun shiny blue skies at my office in Baton Rouge, while it's down pouring at my house or at my wife's office which is about 10 minutes from mine.

Like MG said, its all about the salinity. Doesn't matter what the rainfall is if it doesn't drop the salinity in the marsh.

7 inches on our rain gauge yesterday in 2 hours south of LC. From about jennings west to the border got the worst of it I believe. This was the 4th major downpour we have had at my house in the last month, but I can't speak for others.

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/la/nwis/uv...95231093100100

That is a link to the realtime data for one of the CRMS stations back in the marsh. Salinity right now is about 14 ppt.

Looks like some of the ones closer to the lake are about as high, probably higher.

When the salinity at both Cameron and Hackberry are both below 10 ppt, you've got a case that the weirs can probably be opened for a few days in a given week without harming the marsh. The hydrology of the region is complex, so the believed cause (observed rainfall) does not guarantee the desired effect (lowered salinity).

Some of you guys should make the meeting on 9 July try and get real answers regarding whether weir operation is closely tied to measured salinity as it should be, and what salinity range in the lake is considered safe with respect to opening the weirs.

I just want them to show hard evidence that it's because of elevated salinity and not because of high dollar duck leases keeping grass.

The salt is higher in the marsh than the lake right now according to a good source

Even if they showed that proof, people are still going to argue they are doing it for the ducks. I've countless times showed data that the marsh has been affected. You can look at the CRMS website, and look at the change in the marsh vegetation over time to more salinity tolerant species.

Waltrip- What are the water levels like? It doesn't matter if the salinity in the lake is lower if the water level in the marsh is higher. It looks like that is not the case, so there is a valid argument for the weirs being open right now.

Explain how, with the weirs closed, the salinity gets higher in the marsh than in BL. I cannot figure that out. Not a smart as question, just asking how.


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Curious how Waltrip will respond. Please, no one spoil this by giving the true answer.

Because last time they opened the weirs for 3 days the water never came out of the marsh ,it just went in for 72 hrs straight .

The marsh was already high salinity to start with and marsh was 3ft lower than lake

Freshwater evaporates before saltwater


That is why the marsh behind weirs is now higher than the lake

It's 100% for duck hunters and saving marsh grass , opening the weirs will not do anymore damage than keeping them closed

Keeping closed actually does more damage to the lake and system

Big money duck hunters run the gates and for that , they control the water

Good management, especially when salinity is higher in the marsh than the lake would likely allow two way tidal flow and good exchange of both forage and water, leaving less salt behind the weirs at closing than when they were opened.

Well, he actually got something right.

But that has nothing to do with why the salinity becomes elevated in the marsh. Saltwater still evaporates, but it is not the salt that is evaporating. When saltwater evaporates, the salt just becomes more concentrated, thus you get higher salinities.

As far as your last post about the weirs, it doesn't surprise me.

You will never learn.

What I'm saying Wed the salinity was pulled in marsh and was 16 and lake was 7

This is from good source

you gonna be there MG?:rolleyes:

Yeah, and I'm sitting on my couch in Prairieville and can find the same information. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out (sorry MG, lmao!).

If the marsh behind the weirs gets is salinity from BL, then how could the marsh get more salty than the body of water supplying salt? Both areas experience evaporation at equal rates. If BL is supplied with more fresh water than the marsh, then maybe. But the gulf is also pumping salt into BL during incoming tides that the marsh does not get.

Anyone else willing to offer a theory?

EVAPORATION ......

The marsh is like an enclosed lake, with just a very little in/out flow.

When the water keeps evaporating every day, the salt is left behind and the salinity keeps getting higher.

The water level in the Cameron Prairie [East Cove unit] has been about a foot lower that the average lake level for months now.

Simple high school physics explains it. Because the lake has more volume than the marsh. Equal evaporation but different ratios of water to salt.

Go mix a 5 gallon bucket with salty water. Pour some in a quart container. When the quart is evaporated down by lets say half, it's going to be saltier than the larger container. And the larger container will not have evaporated in half during the same amount of time.

Do you understand now ???

Why aren't there wiers on the intracoastal (northeast) side to let fresh water in when the salinity is too high? DUH!!!! They already have man made canals that were one time open that are closed off now, right on the Intracoastal canal.

Flow is a two way street, and the tides and winds would push too much salt the other way. Keeping the intracoastal fresh where it crosses 27 is a very high priority, and much more important than the relatively small mitigating input the fresh water would have in big lake.

Not if you only open when the intracoastal is higher than the marsh. Or have a large check valve type system where it can only flow one way.

Oh, and there would be no tides when the wiers on the lake are closed anyways. That's when you would let the water in from the other side.

Salinity high = open wier on intracoastal side.

Salinity low = open wier on the lake side.

Maybe, but I wonder if there would be enough fresh from N to S to justify the expense and effort. Unless you have a huge source of fresh water to draw from (like the Mississippi on the E side), then slowing/stopping the intrusion of salt from the Gulf inland seems to be the more promising approach compared with increasing the flow of fresh toward the Gulf (or directing it). Fresh water is a finite, limited resource. The salt in the Gulf is effectively infinite by comparison.

The solution to intrusion is not dilution.

Ultimately, effective barriers are needed.

Man c'mon that would make way too much sense to do !!!

Your talking about da Gumberment

That's what I'm screaming

Yeah, I agree with that too. Was just brainstorming some ideas.

Cajun Dave
 

When and where is this meeting on July 9th? Can attendees ask questions and comment on tne operation of the weirs? Would it do any good?

What do these salinity numbers represent? 16 and 7 what? Parts per _______?


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Thousand

Can't believe that people are so stubborn to believe that the control of the wiers is not for ducks It's a big money game

And what experience do you have with it that leads you to this belief?

I have heard this hear-say on this forum for years now, and not once has anyone provided any proof to this idea, not once has anyone provided a name or contact number for someone that does know. I personally know the land managers for 2 of the largest land-holding companies in the Cameron-Creole, and both are first and foremost concerned with the health of that marsh as a whole, and not just for ducks.

So, unless someone can provide proof to the contrary, I have no reason to believe otherwise.

Is the marsh managed for ducks? Sure, but only as part of the holistic management of the marsh. To say any wetland in Louisiana is not managed for waterfowl, especially given the fact that a portion of Cameron-Prairie Refuge is behind those weirs, would be false. But, to say that waterfowl is the ONLY driving force when there are guided fishing trips, alligator hunting, and duck hunting (among other activities) going on back there is plain ignorant.

^^^cameron prairie, not Sabine.

My mistake. For some reason I always mix that up.

Smalls the head gate guy is the biggest duck hunter behind the weirs


I can't wait till July 9th to hear them lie when I bust there aZZ about duck hunting

I asked you for his name months ago, and you never gave it to me.

Why is that?

If you could actually prove me wrong, I would admit it. But you always skirt my questions. Why is that?

10 pages or bust folks

I did give it to you.... Don't remember now but look back I posted it


Again "WE" "Us" locals know it's all about duck hunting , you forget that 90% of the full time guides also guide duck hunting

We know !!! You can act like it's to save the marsh but that's like saying Obama is trying to save healthcare

I'll be there to hear what they got to say!

Nah, pretty sure you never did. Go look it up.

And if you did, why don't you post it back up? Shouldn't be a big issue for you.

In case you don't remember, I am from Lake Charles. I care just as much about that area as you do. Maybe more, considering I actually dedicated the first 2 1/2 years of my career to its conservation.

Contrary to what you believe, Waltrip, You aren't the only one that knows a lot of people that care about the resources.

I will only make one comment on all this, "only" scientific facts should be used to control the weirs. At this point, only MG has offered any "facts", the rest, well each side has their beliefs. The meeting will be interesting "if" truth is discussed and not turn into a shouting arguing match. But the only thing I can say, if anyone doesn't believe that "money" controls all things in this state, and the world, you got your head in a hole.

Dude, I've thrown up so many facts on these weirs and that marsh, it ain't even funny. This conversation has been going on for a LONG, LONG, LONG time. I've even offered some of the reports I have on research that has been done on the Cameron-Creole. I quit posting the same thing over and over again because people don't care to know anything scientific unless it supports their side.

Here's your link Waltrip. Find where you posted the name.

Ive been hunting behind weirs for 30 years. The better blinds in marsh tend to be closer to the weirs where it is saltier. I do not believe weirs are for duck hunting.

Could someone please let all of us know when and where this meeting will be held?