Calcasieu Relative Condition Factor Study 2012 Preliminary Results
 

We've wrapped up data collection for our 2012 Calcasieu Estuary relative condition factor study along with some preliminary analysis. The more detailed and definitive analysis will have to wait until we're back in Colorado and until the documents go through the public release process.

But it looks pretty clear that all four species (gafftop, specks, drum, redfish) we measured are significantly thinner than they were last year. Furthermore, specks, drum, and redfish are also thinner than the long term Louisiana average, and thinner than reported in the 2004 Jenkins study.

This tends to support the theory that relative to their food sources, the fish in the estuary are overpopulated.

We're headed to Grand Isle tomorrow to work on reducing the fish population in that neighborhood. Thanks to all the Salty Cajun members who assisted with our study. We had tons of help with sample collection, suggesting survey sites, and also some assistance weighing and measuring the fish.

I also want to give a plug to the Berkley FS-15 digital scale. We carefully check the calibration each time we use the scale and all three of our scales of this model are consistently within 1%. With our calibration adjustment, we end up with weight uncertainties below 0.3% for individual readings. Having had some scale failures last year, we brought several back-ups to LA, but we experienced no scale failures with this model. The 50 lb model we used for the bigger fish also performed well.

Thanks for the preliminary findings and safe travels as you continue on your quest.

O OH.. Is "W" possibly right?

That's not the real question.

Can he get the limit changed back to 25? Now that's the real question!

Thanks for your hard work.....I will keep in contact with you over the next few months and hopefully we can get a plan together and summit some info to WLF .

Thanks again

Never had any doubt about it..... Its easy to tell by size of trout falling off., we will always have the ones who want to make it sound more difficult by saying you have to take more variables to look at

No its simple ,real simple when you cut the number of trout you take out by 40%. When you had zero reason to cut that percentage down.

Its like you having a chicken laying 10 eggs a day and you pick 6...and leave 4 for reproduction ...your chicken stock is working fine but now you only pick 4 eggs a day In stead of 6....
^^^^^ how many more chickens will you have in on year extra ???

Simple 3rd grade math

Thanks for gathering the data, and the feedback.
It'll be interesting to see how the Calcasieu data compares to other areas

X2

Could the weirs be responsible for lack of food in Big Lake?

Or coiuld the lack of oyster reefs be the culprit???

or a lack of plankton??

Or 2 years of drought proceeding this year??

Or higher number of sunspots this year??

I really wish it was as simple as a lack of bait or too many fish or whatever.

This study provides valuable data, but there are other data that need to be considered.

Great job Math Geek. Keep up the work.

:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:

This is ONE study on ONE day. Lots of factors come into play - male vs female trout is one. The study needs to be done on the same day year after year to get an accurate sample - promise you that MathGeek knows this. If a female trout has spawned of course they weigh less, needs to be male trout only to keep the bias out of there. Repetition is the key to good science, best to keep this study going for a while not one day, but it is great that MathGeek got out there and is doing this, it is at least better than nothing. I really want to meet MG, he seems like a cool fella

There is not a lack of bait ....as of last time I was out
..it was glass calm and bait consumed the whole lake....it was full of mullet and shad

The trout MG measured and weight with me were full of eggs and only two were males that I recall

This has been more than one day he worked a week on this ...

w one study for one week out of a year will not help you get the limit back to 25 it should have been done the day the limit was reduced to compile evidence that the limit reduction has hurt the lake there will have to be a lot more studies and hard evidence to get the limit back up

Any female trout should probably not be counted to get a good measure. The females reproductive cycle is so variable, they can be 'full' of eggs, half 'full' 3/4 'full' and it throws off the numbers too much. For instance a 24" female full may weigh 6 lbs, lays her eggs and be 5 lbs the very next day, so right now may not be the best time to be 'weighting' a female trout, weights are highly variable at this time

(disclaimer: I have no idea if those numbers/lengths/weights are correct just an example, my boga and tape measure are set to Texas standards)

Well I'm sure and if we had someone who was certified to do a study for the paperwork..my belief are 100%.right ...were over populated and this is causing the over all size of trout to drop dramatically

So if it takes a biologist to already re prove what was said before the limit changed to say the same thing now....so be it

You took 40% less trout per year over a 6 year time frame.....

Trout will take care of themselves - they will eat each other, keep all the drum, they eat the oysters:)

Shoot all the seagulls too, they are eating all the shrimp

This seems like another contradiction to me. How can there be plenty of bait if the the trout are overpopulated? Do they somehow know they have too many of them so they each eat less bait to conserve their food supply?

If you can stop contradicting your own arguments I think more people could support you. This is along the lines of "you cannot over fish the lake on rod and reel", but then asking to increase the limit back to 25 because the fish need to be thinned out.

I'm not for or against your cause, I'm just tired of seeing you contradict yourself.

In a nutshell

1. There isn't enough bait to support the lake because the weirs are closed

2. There is PLENTY of bait in the lake as of last time I was out

3. The fishing is not nearly as good as it once was

4. There are WAY too many fish in the lake and it needs to be thinned

5. Too many people fishing

6. Not enough people fishing to keep the fish thinned

7. Do NOT, I repeat do NOT stop and tell someone that they are being uncorteous when they fly by you or troll up to you, make sure to do a figure 8 and mess up the fishing for both of you and NEVER let the potlicker understand why you did it

8. Bushs fault

Sorry to hijack, keep up the good work MG

I never said lack of Bait was an issue...Over population is an issue.....too many small trout is what drives big trout out of the lake

It’s not a bait issue right now.....but maybe in the winter it is a big bait issue..... It could be bait or food issue before spring or after summer but right now lake is full of bait

My fight is too many trout are driving out the bigger trout.... Big Trout don’t eat shrimp or small fish...they eat big bait

15 Trout limit has solved ZERO....ZERO...ZERO....

I’m 100% Right on this issue ...... and just look at the STAR and CCA SHOOT out weight ins from 2000-2006....2007-2012
Look at every trout event in this time frame...

Jeff Poe did a good story on LSM about Pressure on the lake....As he now believes there is way less Pressure

You are reaching for a cause and effect here. Fishermen have such a small effect on trout populations. A real 'cause' during this time frame would be Rita, can't you see that? Again going back to the marsh degradation from Rita, and as Smalls was saying its actually coming back, it takes a few years to see the progression, it will take a few generations of fish to get back to what it once was

Big trout will eat the smaller trout also, so debunk the thought above and if you of all people really think there is LESS pressure on the lake:rotfl:

How many trout have you cleaned with another trout inside???

I clean thousands of trout a year and I look in most of them to see what they are eating....I have Never in my life pulled another speckled trout out of a speck

I have pulled
Shrimp
Mullet
Shad
Sand trout
Croaker
Pogy
Crabs
Hooks
Baits
Snakes
Snails
Never once a speckle trout but I would love to hear how many of you have



Also I find it funny you laugh at J Poe??? He is on the water close to 300 days year and if he says there is less pressure " there is less pressure bottom line "
You sure don't have any time to prove him wrong or laugh at what he states as a fact

Which now makes me dis credit all your theories as you have proven you know zero about our situation

I wouldn't know Jeff P if he was standing in front of me, or any guide on Big Lake for that matter, I just find humor that you complain every single day on here about potlickers and people yet your idol just said there is less pressure but I can find 100 posts where you say pressure is the problem. Flip flop flip flop, its comical:rotfl:

I know plenty about 'your' situation over there, so would any biologist, wetland scientist across the nation without ever stepping foot on a boat out there. Believe it or not Big Lake isn't different than any other place that is attached to a large body of saltwater. The properties of saltwater and vegetation are the same in Big Lake as they are along the Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian Ocean. If you dig a straight canal to a body of saltwater eventually saltwater is going to get into the system - its not rocket science. And when saltwater intrudes, it changes the landscape by killing the freshwater marsh plants, creates mud flats, and eventually open water, you can get a good look at this by driving down Hwy 1 from Golden Meadow to Grand Isle if you would actually leave Big Lake and see other parts of the state, or you can drive down Hwy 27 to the coast and see the vegetation change and mudflats, open water all along the sides of the road

Find one single time I said Pressure was the problem

Got till midnight

Please find where i said this statement....Yes there is a ton of Potlickers and Pilgrims have been for year...but find where I said Pressure was our problem

Just for some background, what is y'alls eduction level and what is your degree in?

M.S. in Biology, work in natural resources management = (office fisherman:grinpimp:)

Got my master's from UL Monroe though and not Big Lake U!

You took POTENTIALLY 40% less trout. You have no clue what the real number is.

I prolly killed 6 or 7 in west cove Saturday when I took a dump in a bucket and dumped it in the water.

Limit was 25 now 15 which is 40% less trout taken by anglers

If a deer doesn't eat, does it grow? If there are too many deer in an area, is there enough food? Food makes things grow. Simple as that. If fish are thinner, they've eaten less. This isn't fitting a square peg in a round hole.

sammich

Bout to get my bachelors in general agriculture with 40 hours of wildlife management as electives.

sammich

I agree with Duck Butter, the trend down started with Rita. And Ike didn't help.

Those storms hurt our marshes and the drought didn't stop salt water intrusion.

Protect the coast and our marshes.

I think no one can definitively state that the limit of 15 or 25 is the main reason.

Then why is there bait all over the lake?

Not as simple as we would like it to be.

I've wondered the same. But body condition is a big indicator of low food supply :help:

sammich

[SIZE=3]I applaud MG for his effort; I can see that “W” isn’t going to let it GO, I started fishing BL about 7 years ago and if there was 40 boats on the lake on Saturday that would have been a lot, the majority were jon boats with 40 hp outboards and most of them didn’t make it past Turners Bay, now that Calcasieu Landing is in place there is a lot more pressure on the lake, I am amazed that some people had foresight to lower limits on trout,( based on 25 per person limit) think about it if you have 100 boats on the lake with two fisherman per boat and 80% of them limit out, that’s 4000 trout a day. Now compound it to 300 boats fishing Saturday and Sunday that’s potentially 24000 trout, how long do you think the trout will hold out.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Now with that being said 10 years ago there was just a hand full of guides, now the numbers have tripled, let’s just say 20 guides, most of them fish 2 people average 3 trips a week 52 weeks is potentially 140400, thats just guides and customers… JUST SAYING ![/SIZE]

140,000 is just one egg sack from a 12" trout.

1st off if you have 100 guide boats any given day 40 only limit out......if you have 300 weekend warriors only 50 of them limit out....on any given weekend

MG went to Cal point and looked at fish and one day no body had a limit of trout.....

Most will not limit out but the ones who can and do should be able to keep more trout


Just because a guide has his papers dont mean he is a fisherman who limits out every trip...most guides now have not even fished the 10 years yet

Just my 2 cents. There is a lot of bait in the lake right NOW cuz it's summer but before and after you need it as well. I haven't been fishing the lake for 10 yrs actually this is my third but learning fast and I can tell changes. I knew buddies that fished it a lot when my job wouldn't let me and the size of the trot is down and it would be understandable that marsh and bait play a role but seems just like deer management that the number of trout as a whole would be a bigger threat. I do the same thing "w" I cut open 90% of the fish I clean and haven't ever saw a speckled sea trot in a stomach of another

I'll say I've never seen a trout in another trouts belly.

I did go on line to see how many eggs a trout can spawn; less than 5 lbs. 100,000, over 5lbs could be up to 1000000, about one percent survive to 12 inches, It also said it takes two years for a trout to reach 12 inches, you add environment changes, pressure, boat traffic running across the reefs, it all adds up, I will admit I had to buy a golden rule this year, I have never had to measure a fish before in BL.. I am not sure what is making the changes but something is for sure!
I believe there is a lot more Ship Traffic than usual; I have seen more ships since late last year than I have seen in several years combined. Generally the salinity stays the same in the bottom half of the ship channel, but those big ships churning up the bottom, mixing all of that fresh water with the salt water can’t be good on the fisheries either. Man fixes one problem and creates another; it is just the way it is!

Big Fact for smaller trout is the only thing that has changed and that is from 25 trout to 15 trout in a healty estuary ..
We are leaving 40% more trout per day than 6 years ago

Here is some good Facts for Trout

Besides being popular in many south Louisiana restaurants, it is targeted by more recreational fishermen than any other saltwater fish. In the last 10 years, recreational fishermen have harvested an average of 6,578,061 speckled trout from Louisiana waters annually – this is more than 93% of the combined recreational/commercial harvest. The best year for recreational landings was 2000 with a take of 9,615,942 specks and the poorest year was 1990, the year after the great freeze, with 2,679,167 landings.

Although the commercial catch had been regulated by minimum sizes and gear restrictions, the recreational fishery was unregulated until 1977, when a combined daily limit of 50 was placed on speckled trout and redfish. In 1984 the possession limit was reduced to the daily limit, and a new saltwater fishing license was required. This was followed by a 12-inch minimum size (14- inch commercial) in 1987 and the recreational limit was reduced to 25 in 1988. Speckled trout management and biology remain an area of high public interest. Some of the most commonly asked questions on the subject are answered below.

Why do we have a 12-inch minimum size on speckled trout?
A minimum size of 12 inches allows most fish to spawn at least once before reaching harvestable size. All of the males and more than 75% of the females are sexually mature at 12 inches long. The minimum size also increases the overall yield of the fishery. Each year since the regulation went into effect, the average size of recreationally caught specks has been more than 13 inches. Before the minimum size requirement, the average size of recreationally taken specks was as low as 10 inches.
'Why don’t we have a larger minimum size, such as 14 inches?
Speckled trout have sex-specific growth and survival rates. Males grow slower and don’t grow as large as females. In Louisiana, males do not reach a size of 14 inches until their third or fourth years. Since few specks live beyond age 5, and more than 70% of the total speckled trout population is age 3 or younger, very few males grow to larger sizes. This would result in a loss of recreational opportunity to harvest the males and could possibly cause a shift of harvest pressure to females.
How many of the undersized, released speckled trout really survive?
The majority of hook-caught speckled trout survive when released. Louisiana conducted a 18-month study ending in 1995 on the survival of released speckled trout. The survival rate depended on the fishing method. Treble hook artificials had a 97% survival rate, single hook artificials were 91%, treble hook with bait had 83%, and single hook with bait was 74%. The overall average survival rate was 82.5%. Research done in 1984 in Texas showed a survival rate of 73%, and a Georgia study, done in 1990, showed a 63.8% rate.
Why don’t we close the season during spawning time?
Speckled trout exhibit a protracted spawning season, lasting from April to September. Females ready to spawn have even been recorded in March and October. Closing the season during spawning would result in a 5 to 7 month closure. Also, from a biological perspective, any removal of a female fish from a population has the same impact. Regardless of whether the fish is caught 8 months or 8 days before it spawns, the result is the removal of the fish and all of her future offspring. Since there is little biological advantage to such a measure and since the closure would take place during the months of best fishing weather and most intense recreational activity, the negatives outweigh the possible benefits.
Why can’t I catch more big trout?
Aside from the fact that there are many more small trout than large ones, large speckled trout are very specialized creatures. Large trout are not as widely distributed as small trout. The largest trout are taken in the spring, next largest in winter, then fall and summer, out in the Gulf. Large but lesser sized trout are taken near beaches, lesser still in lakes and bays, and the smallest usually in the marsh. Anglers prefer to fish for specks in summer and the second preference is fall. Fishing is most intense in sheltered inside waters. More big trout are caught in spring because they move into shallow beach and bay habitats at that time for their first spawn of the season. The rest of the summer and early fall, the larger trout tend to stay in cooler Gulf waters and only periodically enter beach and bay habitats for subsequent spawns. Many of the large fish winter offshore, with a few wintering in the interior marshes, where they are very sluggish. [/SIZE]
[Large trout also have very different food habits than school trout. Small trout eat large amounts of shrimp and other crustaceans. As trout become larger, their diet shifts toward fish, the larger, the better. Studies in Texas and Mississippi show that really big trout strongly prefer to feed on mullets; a large trout will find the largest mullet it can handle and try to swallow it. Often the mullet is half or two-thirds as large as the trout. The key to catching large trout is to fish where they are and use big baits.
What is the future of recreational speckled trout fishing?
The future of the fishery depends on two factors: good habitat and good management. If our coastal areas remain unpolluted and coastal erosion is controlled, management will be the key. Very few more speckled trout can be produced from other sources. If the entire commercial speckled trout harvest were divided up equally among Louisiana’s over 400 thousand recreational anglers, each sport fisherman would get less than one fish per person per year. Research has also shown that very few speckled trout appear in shrimp trawl bycatch. This means that gains and losses will be the result of management within the recreational fishery. Management priorities, as set by recreational leadership, will determine whether the fishery is managed for liberal limits and smaller fish or restrictive creel limits and larger fish.

"Management priorities, as set by recreational leadership, will determine whether the fishery is managed for liberal limits and smaller fish or restrictive creel limits and larger fish."

I would have never guessed you were a liberal, W.

Good article

Not close....but I know 100% that the lake can handle a 25 per person trout limit...

So in other words, what this article says about limits and fish size goes completely against what Waltrip says. As Kajun said, liberal limit = 25 fish and smaller based on the article. Restrictive = bigger fish. So answer me this, based on your source, if by your standard 15 fish has caused less big trout, then based on this article, the limit should reduce even more. maybe to 10?

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you would have to go to 5:D

In the 1990's it began to be clear to many wildlife agencies that overpopulated deer are smaller deer because they stress their food sources, but it wasn't until the last 5-8 years that the wildlife management agencies began to realize that food availability and growth rates, rather than survival to older ages is the key to producing bigger fish, especially in relatively short lived species like the spotted seatrout.

The Colorado wildlife managers have had great success restoring the size and growth rates to lake trout in Blue Mesa Reservoir by removing the harvest limits on this species and by aggressive culling of smaller fish using gill nets. I've also seen a number of farm ponds in the midwest overpopulated with bluegill. You get tons of fish only a few inches long and none of them grow bigger than 6" long because there just isn't the food. Add ample predators (often bass and catfish) to keep the bluegill numbers down, and you get the big bluegill again. Humans can also effectively fill the predator role to prevent overpopulation of species with high fecundity in many ecosystems.

Lower limits produce older fish. But older fish are only bigger fish if the food supply is sufficient to feed them all for high growth rates.

I agree, just making the point that the argument he is making and the "sources" he is using are contradictory.

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