SaltyCajun.com

SaltyCajun.com (http://www.saltycajun.com/forum/index.php)
-   General Discussion (Everything Else) (http://www.saltycajun.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   my pup 6 mo. old today (http://www.saltycajun.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40244)

speck-chaser 01-08-2013 04:26 PM

my pup 6 mo. old today
 
4 Attachment(s)
Cant believe how fast the time is flying by,and how fast my pup is growing up. She is starting to fill in the hole that was left when my big chocolate died last year. So far, she hasnt been too destructive-not near like my last lab. Not yet anyway.lol I am no expert trainer,but have been working with her for the past couple of months and she seems to be picking things up pretty well.

swamp snorkler 01-08-2013 04:30 PM

Thats a pretty dog

Montauk17 01-08-2013 04:37 PM

Always wanted a silver...pretty dog

Jordan 01-08-2013 04:44 PM

gorgeous dog !!

RickLafayette 01-08-2013 04:49 PM

Spec, did you get that silver lab from a local breeder?

Top Dawg 01-08-2013 05:10 PM

Pretty dog. You can definitely see the weim in her. Pretty pup!

speck-chaser 01-08-2013 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickLafayette (Post 535720)
Spec, did you get that silver lab from a local breeder?


thanks fellas!!

rick, I got her out of state. I did see a couple of people that had some aorund port allen though.

biggun 01-08-2013 06:59 PM

Goregous Girl.. Guys Let me tell U.. I owned and trained my own Weimaraner.. As for crippled ducks or geese in the grass or ricefield He had not EQUAL... His Nose was by far more sensitive than a labs.. I also owned a female lab that was awesome.. My wiem just COULD NOT TAKE THE BITTER COLD WATER IN the Marsh..

My lab was awesome too. She had a great nose.. More drive than freight train..

But My Wiem Was the master blaster.. SO a combo of both is great...

Top Dawg 01-08-2013 07:26 PM

I had a weim that was never trained one day in his life. Brought decided to bring him one day when he was 3 years and he picked up our 18 ducks. A bird in the grass he could sniff out like a champ. He acted like he had been hunting all his life lol. Unfortunately he had an aggressive side and I had to get rid of him when my baby was born. I miss him though. Smartest dog I've ever been around.

Raymond 01-08-2013 07:55 PM

*** is that? Weinm?

CajunSaint 01-08-2013 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 535829)
*** is that? Weinm?

I'm guessing a
Weimaraner

But that's not one??

Beautiful pup though!!!

Top Dawg 01-08-2013 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 535829)
*** is that? Weinm?

Definitely one in the wood pile.

Spunt Drag 01-08-2013 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 535829)
*** is that? Weinm?

A silver lab. :D

Top Dawg 01-08-2013 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunt Drag (Post 535849)
A silver lab. :D

Here we go lol:beathorse::smokin:

Spunt Drag 01-08-2013 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Dawg (Post 535852)
Here we go lol:beathorse::smokin:

Ha I was bored at work. Figured I'd get another debate goin!

speck-chaser 01-08-2013 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 535829)
*** is that? Weinm?


Lets just say it was sold as a silver lab. really a strain from the chocolate. The dad is silver,and the mom is chocolate.

Just wondering "if" there was a weim in the woodpile from previous history, Can you ever get that particular gene out? If so, how many breedings of pure lab to lab does it take?

Top Dawg 01-08-2013 08:58 PM

It will never be pure lab to lab if there is weim in the genes

Raymond 01-08-2013 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Dawg (Post 535873)
It will never be pure lab to lab if there is weim in the genes

BINGO!! We have a winner chicken dinner!!:smokin: it's a designer breed sold without any health clearances or guarantees. Weims are know for their tendencies to go deaf so keep that in mind. They have been bred down to deliver a pet and not a prey drive hound. Good luck with her, I hope she works out and becomes a great member of your family.

speck-chaser 01-08-2013 10:43 PM

Well, I love my labareimer!!!. lol She did come with some warranty too. Although I dont ever intend her to be in field trials, my pups aunt won field trials at a pretty young age. It seems too that the chocolate labs werent all that popular or recognized either when they first came on the scenes either. Akc still considers these as chocolates because the color for chocolate can vary from sedge to chocolate. She is already becoming a big part of our family too.

speck-chaser 01-08-2013 11:11 PM

Just a lil something I found interesting.


The Controversy Over The Silver Lab.

At the end of the Twentieth Century, the frequency of silver (gray) labs began to increase in North America due to an increase in the number of chocolate labs in the gene pool of Labrador Retrievers. These Silver Labs in turn fueled an enormous controversy within the Labrador community.*

Fortunately, by the advent of the Twenty-First Century, the controversy surrounding Silver Labs subsided except for a few remaining* breeders of* "standard" colors. These remaining opponents of Silver Labs are the K-9 version *of the "Flat Earth Society". Unfortunately, those holdout breeders who refuse to acknowledge AKC's acceptance of silver labs, continue to confuse the general public by making unfounded accusations about the purity of the Silver Labs breeding. In an attempt to quiet the ranting of the more vocal opponents of Silver Labs, one breeder of silvers offered a $100,000.00 Silver Lab Challenge to any of these "experts" who wished to put their money where their mouth was concerning their accusations surrounding the ancestry of silver labs. And to the man, not one of those "experts" you see on the internet was willing to stand behind their Flat Earth*accusations regarding Silver Labs.*

Are Silver Labs Pure bred Labrador Retriever?

DNA testing and mapping of silver labs was done during the close of the Twentieth Century and meticulous investigation of each silver labs ancestry was conducted by investigators from AKC. All conclusions were the same, i.e., "there was no reason to doubt that the dogs were purebred Labrador Retrievers," (see conclusion issued by AKC). Amazingly, the Flat Earth Opponents of Silver Labs counter these scientific conclusions with the incredibly insane accusation that the "cross-breeding" which allegedly produced the Silver Labs was either covered up by line breeding or happened to long ago to be detected by DNA testing. If anyone ever needed an indication of just how ignorant opponents of Silver Labs are, this statement should be the key. Every K-9 carries in its genes a complete history of its ancestors going all the way back to wolves.

Everything written about the Silver Labs is based upon speculation. One statement that is commonly made is that there had to have been a Weimeraner introduced into the bloodlines to produce the silver color. This statement has been proven false. UC Berkley studied the genetic makeup of the Silver Lab against that of the Weimeraner. Researchers concluded that it was not the same.

Conclusion

Silver Labs are pure bred Labrador Retrievers and their ancestry is beyond reproach. Fortunately, kennel clubs around the world do not have the political pressure from mercenary American breeders of *"normal" colored labs and already accept silver labs without all the political fuss and pressure being applied to AKC (the original standard for a lab has always been "a coat of a solid color"). If a person should come upon one of the remaining "Silver Lab Hate sites" on the net and develops ANY doubts about Silver Labs, that person should go directly to AKC and ask the pertinent question to learn the facts.

Top Dawg 01-08-2013 11:22 PM

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/silverlabs.html


A dog's genetic makeup is very complex (like us) and many genes are involved in coat color. The same genes are all present in every dog however only certain ones get "turned on" like a switch and others are off depending on what breed or what goes into a puppy in the case of a mixed breed. A Labrador's coat color is dependent on many genes being turned on and off. The ones we commonly think of that dictate color in our breed are the B and E genes. Other genes like T for ticking is always turned off and still other genes like the A gene causes a dog's coat to be a solid color. We know that If a lab has BB or Bb then black is dominant and if it has bb then the dog is chocolate. However the E gene acts as a epistatic gene or "masking" gene; in other words if the dog has Ee or EE then the color is dependent on what is present at the B gene (BB, Bb, or bb) but if the dog has ee then it will always be yellow no matter what is present at the B gene. A yellow that has a dominant B gene (BB or Bb) will have typical black pigment on the nose, lips, and eyerims and a yellow that is homozygous recessive at the B gene (bb) will be a Dudley.

Now the silver coloration comes into play when the D gene is turned on. If the D gene is in it’s homozygous recessive form (dd) then it will "dilute" the coloration if the B gene. When chocolate is dilute the color is a silvery mousey brown and the dilute version of a black (Bb or BB) yields a dog that is dark slate gray or "blue". Weimeraners are a breed that is based on dilution. The typical Weim coat is a mousey gray and it’s because their D and B genes are both present in the homozygous recessive forms (dd and bb) so the typical Weim is a chocolate that is diluted. Weimeraners also can carry the B gene in the dominant form so therefore a darker blue Weim can pop up in litters when they are dd and BB. A breed like the Doberman also has this dilute gene pattern in it’s population and therefore "blue" Dobies arise from a dilute black Doberman and fawn is the dilution of a red Dobe. Other breeds like Great Danes, Chow Chows, and German Shepherds and even Newfoundlands can be diluted. Some breeds accept the color and others do not and if the dilution factor is present in a breed it is found the world over and is known to be in the population. The breeders of silver Labs originally thought that the color was a mutation. Mutations typically do not reproduce and if they do they do not follow a pattern. Silver Lab expression follows the exact same pattern as any other dilution in other breeds. Also as more silver breeders appear the darker blue color has arose because they introduced black into their breedings unlike the first silver breeders who assumed that only chocolate would produce silver.

I would suspect that silver Labs were a combination of a Labrador and a Weimaraner - they ALWAYS have the diluted D gene turned on (dd). This combo would produce a dog that would essentially look like a lab and if bred to a chocolate lab then the results would look and most likely act like labs (due to the Weim also being a gun dog and having a vaguely similar build and temperament when compared to many other breeds) - and the dilute gene could be "turned on" because of an introduction of this dilute combination. The resulting offspring could carry this - silver breeders comment that all silver puppies come from a silver x silver cross, and silver x chocolate give either silver puppies or chocolate puppies that carry silver. This would agree with the D gene hypothesis - two parents with dd would only give a d gene and the puppies would all have dd and would therefore be silver.

Through research I have found that all silver Labradors or Labs that carry the dilution factor can be traced back to two kennels in the U.S. They were breeders that stumbled upon the color and sought out to express it as often as possible and so pedigrees from the first silver Labs are the result of inbreedings like father to daughter and full sister to brother, etc. This was the only way they could keep the color going since other dogs would not yield the color and furthermore all other countries besides the U.S. have never even heard of a silver Lab. Both of these kennels had dogs that came from one kennel in particular which bred both retrieving and pointing breeds in the U.S. back in 20’s and 30’s. An old time west coast breeder actually remembers them advertising rare blue Labradors in Gun Dog magazine in the 50’s. So it is my theory that the dilution factor was added back then most likely by accident and breeders today are keeping it going.

There are many reasons why silver Labradors should not be produced and the main one is that they are a disqualification and adhering to a standard while breeding is what keeps a breed a breed. The Labrador looks and acts like Labrador and not a German Shepherd because of the dedicated breeders preserving the breed. A standard is a blueprint and varying because it looks nice will undoubtedly cause the structure to fail. Also silver breeders do not typically run health clearances on their breeding stock (OFA/CERF) nor do they participate in any competitions to prove their dogs are breeding quality. This leads me to believe that they are breeding simply to make money and do not care about a superior individual nor do they care about the breed in general.

Silver breeders also blatantly lie. They have information on their websites that talk about DNA testing done by the AKC and a researcher at UC Berkley. Both are not true. AKC never did any genetic mapping of silver Labradors nor do they have any plans to do so since they are a registering body only and the Labrador Club of America writes the standard for the breed. Also Dr. Neff at UC Berkley was never looking into whether or not silver Labs were purebred or not which is also a moot point since DNA testing can only prove parentage at this point and is not specific enough to search for breed markers.

"The Science Behind AKC DNA Profiles

AKC DNA Profiles are generated using the same technology used by law enforcement agencies throughout the world. How does this work? In humans and dogs alike, each gene is present as two copies (displayed as letters). Offspring receive one copy of each gene from each parent in a random process.

This technology does not use actual genes, but other DNA sequences that are also inherited one copy from each parent. For this reason, your dog's AKC DNA Profile does not provide any information about the conformation of the dog or the presence/absence of genetic diseases.* Furthermore, AKC DNA Profiles cannot determine the breed of a dog."

The color will never be recognized and it does not appear anywhere else in the world. A silver or blue Labrador can not be entered in a conformation event because they do not fit the standard even though they are erroneously registered as chocolate. If they really were a shade of chocolate like a cream or fox red is a shade of yellow then they could be shown.

So please be educated about the color and don’t pay the high price for a novelty. I have received numerous emails from silver owners whose dogs had many health and temperament problems. Buyer beware.

© 2005 Sharon A. Wagner
wigwag@adelphia.net
www.wigwaglabradors.com

speck-chaser 01-09-2013 12:57 AM

Well, whatever she is, She is a good pup so far. Only time will tell how she does. I bet Raymond could turn her into a fabulous dog.

Raymond 01-09-2013 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speck-chaser (Post 535994)
Well, whatever she is, She is a good pup so far. Only time will tell how she does. I bet Raymond could turn her into a fabulous dog.

You never know.

cajunforeman 01-09-2013 10:36 AM

I think the true test will be with Raymon is when I see that rott on his truck picking up a 200 yard blind.

swamp snorkler 01-09-2013 10:45 AM

No matter what kind of dog it is its beautiful. Enjoy it.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:56 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - [ARG:3 UNDEFINED], Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vB.Sponsors
All content, images, designs, and logos are Copyright © 2009-2012,
Salty Cajun, LLC
No unathorized use is permitted