Dr. Dobson reveals Liberty under attack
 

http://drjamesdobson.org/about/comme...iberty-for-all

In my experience, what Dr. Dobson is saying here is true.

The opening paragraph says alot....serious times we are living in I hate to see what will happen between now and election time. I hope and pray we can turn things around,the way things are these days is a path for destruction. From what I understand they don't allow the pledge of allegiance and god in alot of public schools anymore. Makes me sick,and they openly support homosexuals at schools...some go overboard and almost encourage it. Like mentioned in the article most adults won't be swayed into thinking these evil ways but the young generation is at a high risk.

I'm sure most realize this but some don't. Obama is not the problem,big government as a whole is. This was a slow buildup to an evil scheme that started years ago way before obama got into office. Untill we start over from scratch I don't think it will get any better. Presidents these days are nothing more than a damn puppet.

Now that is a statement I can agree on.

Obama isn't out to destroy America like everyone says. He is just completely misguided in his endevors. Americans are the ones that are destroying America. Over the years, people began to put too much faith in the government and are now dependent on them to merely survive. If it were going to be fixed, it should have happend years ago.......... I'm afraid that it is too late to turn this country back around to the right direction. And by right I don't necessarily mean "to the right." A little give in take is needed from both sides to make it work. I just wish the left would quit taking and the right would quit giving.

There is no magic politican that will get in DC and change things. It needs to fail and start back with what our founding fathers had intended on this nation being.

You are correct,100 percent! Also it is not a left or right issue,they all do the same crap. I don't vote for either one,libertarian is the only one that will get my vote. IMO the voting system if flawed too so it doesn't do much good. I think Ron Paul would have done us alot of good if he was given the opportunity.

and the last paragraph ruined it ....... "If you agree with this objective and can assist us financially here at the end of a very lean summer, we would certainly appreciate your support" ...

Yeah I hear ya but all websites do it....hard to get the word out without money.

and that's the problem.... it's all about the money

Rand Paul 2016

I hope to stimulate a discussion regarding what more we can do at different levels in hopes of making a difference. Clearly, governmental intrusion is impacting liberty in the workplace, the school, the military, hunting and fishing, church, law enforcement, etc. How many churches are less inclined to speak directly and boldly about sexual immorality for fear of legal repercussions or change of tax exempt status? How many schools are teaching the PC baloney?

Here's what I'm doing (a drop in the bucket to be sure, but every bit helps):

Home schooling my children both to deliver higher quality in the core subjects (science, math, language arts, and social studies), as well as to prevent the socialist brainwashing that now dominates the public schools. You better believe our history includes the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, the abuses of power that gave rise to the American Revolution, and the contributions of the Judeo-Christian faith to both western civilization and the prosperity of the United States.

Supporting Christian ministries which still preach traditional Biblical family values. I try and notice when ministries intentionally avoid topics like adultery, teenage pregnancy and immorality, homosexuality, occult practices, and when they give overt approval to false religion and secular humanism. I try and notice when there is an overemphasis on reaching out to the lost through social programs without ever giving anyone the vaguest idea that sin might be a problem creating separation from God and needing the blood of Jesus to address the problem.

Encouraging and supporting grassroots efforts to limit growth of governmental power, especially when it is likely to intrude on matters of faith, education, and faith-based family values.

AMEN mathgeek xxxxx10000000000000

That is the way of the world bro always has always will.

No doubt there..

I know many parents may not have the time, inclination, or resources to home school, and that's ok. One thing we like to do is to email links to thoughtful and well-informed articles (like this one) to our children a couple times each month to promote healthy conversations around the dinner table and while driving to practices and fishing and such. One of the big advantages to hunting and fishing with your children is you can spend time talking about what is happening at school and in the world around us.

My daughter has already posted the link to her facebook page and is pushing her own grassroots discussion about these things!

I certainly feel that it is everyone's right to believe in what they wish to believe.

But the problems this country are facing are not due to the country as a whole moving away from Christianity.

The problems we face are because this countries governmental parties have become masters in the study and application of social manipulation.

What we have failed to do in our education system is to teach people how to think. Our education system remains embedded in the old world Prussian method of Memorize, Memorize, and then Memorize some more. Pass your exams and then forget 90% of what you have learned.

I respect Mathgeeks choice in teaching strong christian skills in his children, However i believe that it is his teaching of critical thinking skills that will help them more than anything else.

I think perhaps Ghandi had it right when he stated "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

In my opinion his statement reflects the fact that we choose as people to change the "word" of christ to suit our particular needs of the moment. More blood has been spilled on this planet in the name of religion than anything else. Religions have the annoying habit of making their devotees believe that they are the only ones who know whats best.



So in my opinion to solve this country's problems you must leave religion at the doorstep. You have to recognize a few things.

#1 Tolerance and understanding of your fellow man (If he chooses to live with different beliefs than you, whether you agree with them or not, he should receive an equal level of courtesy and respect as you)

#2 Education is of utmost importance (not just book learning, but learning how to critically think, learning how to do mundane everyday things) Those are of utmost importance. We have fallen from having an education system which produced some of this planet's smartest. To a nation where teachers are underpaid, overworked, and ridiculed. We are currently ranked as #17 in the list of developed nations for our education system. Here is a short blurb from the #1 and #2 ranked education systems on how to improve education.


There are no magic bullets: The small number of correlations found in the study shows the poverty of simplistic solutions. Throwing money at education by itself rarely produces results, and individual changes to education systems, however sensible, rarely do much on their own.

Education requires long-term, coherent and focused system-wide attention to achieve improvement.

Respect teachers: Good teachers are essential to high-quality education. Finding and retaining them is not necessarily a question of high pay. Instead, teachers need to be treated as the valuable professionals they are, not as technicians in a huge, educational machine.

Culture can be changed: The cultural assumptions and values surrounding an education system do more to support or undermine it than the system can do on its own. Using the positive elements of this culture and, where necessary, seeking to change the negative ones, are important to promoting successful outcomes.

Parents are neither impediments to nor saviours of education: Parents want their children to have a good education; pressure from them for change should not be seen as a sign of hostility but as an indication of something possibly amiss in provision. On the other hand, parental input and choice do not constitute a panacea. Education systems should strive to keep parents informed and work with them.

Educate for the future, not just the present: Many of today's job titles, and the skills needed to fill them, simply did not exist 20 years ago. Education systems need to consider what skills today's students will need in future and teach accordingly.

Bear in mind that in both of these countries Teachers who excel at their job are treated as almost celebrities with the pay and respect that those earn.

#3 Teaching our children Self Reliance, How to grow things, hunt / fish for food, good work skills to earn income.... etc.

#4 Stop allowing politics and special interests to divide us. It's not an accident that different racial groups of people tend to lean far in one political direction or another. It is intentional political manipulation. We are all here for the same things, to live, love & prosper.

#5 Our government is no longer a Constitutional Federal Republic. Its has instead changed itself into a Corporatocracy, that is hidden behind a relatively nice sounding stated agenda of becoming a Social Democracy. As such all decision have become one's of what is in the best interests of the Mega Corporations with the political lobbying war-chests. In every political action, simply follow the money and you see who is pulling the strings.

#4 I believe there are groups of people who would change this if they came into power. (I am a registered libertarian, and do believe if this party gained meaningful power they would be able to enact some real changes that would help us)

But, in a first to post election (which is what we have) It is basically a statistical certainty that anything other than a 2 party system is impossible. If any group ever begins to push a majority electoral system we all need to rally to that cause.

As such history and reality show us that, Things in america will probably not get better until they get much, much worse. Typically free thinking democratic societies change over time and end up as facist / communist / oppressive societies... Then revolutions occur and the cycle begins again.

Therefore anarchist's might just have it right..... The only way that change is ever going to happen is for things to get so bad that people are readily willing to die to change it.


Hopefully they are wrong and we can stop this freight train. We might just be able to do it, if we can come together as people, respect our fellow man (and woman, regardless of their beliefs as long as those beliefs don't actually harm us) and work to a common cause of all of our betterment, and not just the "betterment" of those with all the money.

True Constitutional Social Democracies are what we all need to work towards, There are many examples of them in the world that have shown us exactly how to do it.

It's going to be a long hard road to get there, or anywhere better than where we are headed right now.


Sorry bout the massive wall of text. I will now go post a fishing report or something. :spineyes:

TLDR version located basically here... whether you believe in god or not.

Actually, it's much worse than that. Not even much memorization is happening any more. Even things like spelling, multiplication tables, state capitals, and the periodic table that were traditionally memorized are things greatly lacking in most high school graduates. Critical thinking skills are built on some minimal knowledge base. Not even a minimal knowledge base is in place any more, but they do teach pretty good fakery for whatever assessments are used.

Each American should feel at complete liberty to bring his faith into the public sphere and political discourse to whatever degree he feels appropriate. Others should not insist matters of faith be left at the doorstep (excluded from public discourse).

I would go further. One should never endeavor to manipulate governmental powers to suppress the beliefs, expressions, and faith-based practices of your fellow man.

I'd rate character above education. I'd rather produce men and women of the character of those who arrived on the Mayflower rather than the education and character of the average Microsoft employee or silicon valley engineer.

My wife and I have been educational professionals for a long time, and it's a challenge for even us to identify where the teaching profession went wrong in America. It has something to do with the same entitlement mentality and big government foolishness that plagues most of government. You're close to the core problem when you can see how teachers think they should receive the same kudos as public servants that it makes sense to offer soldiers returning home from war.

Most parents cannot distinguish between the knowledge and skills true education represents, and the diploma and other ways of documenting the knowledge and skills. When push comes to shove, many parents will push for the documentation rather than the actual knowledge.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Good education creates a fit mind, just as a good workout program creates a fit body. A person with a fit body can quickly learn to excel at sports he has not specifically trained for over many years. Likewise, a fit mind can adapt and acquire new skills and master new disciplines. A strong, disciplined, well trained mind can be produced without tailoring the program to guesses about future job markets.

To me, these are more parental responsibilities that should be supported and encouraged by the educational system. Marksmanship and archery skills can be added to PE, but on the whole, I'd rather public education focus on reading, writing, history, science, and math.

It depends on where the divisions actually occur. The liberty to choose your friends and associates according to one's personal preferences is fundamental. The personal preferences need not be rational.

This is oversimplified and fails to explain many aspects of the social agendas that are actually bad for business: radical environmentalism, gay marriage, anti-RKBA agendas, etc.

Too bad they want to legalize drugs.

The solution is not primarily political. As Paul Harvey said, (paraphrasing) "Self-government is not possible without self-discipline."

Sad, but I think you are probably right. But a more pneumatikos view would be to realize that this fulfills the Biblical expectation that a society will reap what it has sown. After a period of reaping and weeping, repentance and restoration becomes possible.

WHAT AN IMPRESSIVE LIST OF ACCOMPLISHMENTS!…
First President to apply for college aid as a foreign student, then deny he was a foreigner.
First President to have a social security number from a state he has never lived in.
First President to preside over a cut to the credit-rating of the United States.
First President to violate the War Powers Act.
First President to be held in contempt of court for illegally obstructing oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.
First President to defy a Federal Judge’s court order to cease implementing the Health Care Reform Law.
First President to require all Americans to purchase a product from a third party, a violation of the U.S. Constitution.
First President to spend a trillion dollars on ‘shovel-ready’ jobs when there was no such thing as ‘shovel-ready’ jobs.
First President to recommend changing our National Anthem as it portrays and promotes violence and is warlike in its theme.
First President to cancel the National Day of Prayer Breakfast and activities.
First President to initiate a Cash for Clunkers Program to clean up exhaust that adds to global warming, then extended it because it was so popular — wasting hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars.
First President to abrogate bankruptcy law to turn over control of companies to his union supporters.
First President to bypass Congress and implement the Dream Act through executive fiat.
First President to order a secret amnesty program that stopped the deportation of illegal immigrants across the U.S., including those with criminal convictions.
First President to demand a company hand over $20 billion to one of his political appointees.
First President to terminate America’s ability to put a man in space.
First President to have a law signed by an auto-pen without being present.
First President to arbitrarily declare an existing law unconstitutional and refuse to enforce it.
First President to threaten insurance companies if they publicly spoke out on the reasons for their rate increases.
First President to tell a major manufacturing company which state they are allowed to locate a factory in.
First President to file lawsuits against the states he swore an oath to protect (AZ, WI, OH, IN).
First President to withdraw an existing coal permit that had been properly issued years ago.
First President to fire an inspector general of Americorps for catching one of his friends in a corruption case.
First President to appoint 45 czars to replace elected officials in his office.
First President to golf 73 separate times in his first two and a half years in office, 90 to date.
First President to pledge complete transparency while campaigning, then hide his medical, educational,and travel records.
First President to win a Nobel Peace Prize for doing NOTHING to earn it.
First President to go on multiple global ‘apology tours’.
First President to go on 17 lavish vacations, including date nights and Wednesday evening White House parties for his friends; paid for by the taxpayer.
First President to have 22 personal servants (taxpayer funded) for his wife.
First President to keep a dog trainer on retainer for $102,000 a year at taxpayer expense.
First President to repeat the Holy Qur’an and tells us that the early morning Islamic call to worship is the most beautiful sound on earth.

How the heck do you multi-quote... I tried the button at the bottom, can not get it to work.

In any case.....

It has been a little while since i have been directly involved in any sort of educational system, but if that is truly the state of affairs, then i think that perhaps nothing short of divine intervention is going to help us!



Absolutely, just so long as this is not perverted into "Each American who is christian, straight, and has no dubious tendencies"

And you have hit the nail squarely on the head in knowing that I mean that Faith should be left at the doorstep for a discussion like this (public discourse)



Agreed on most of the above. What i was referring to as education in all things (books, critical thinking, ability and desire to do mundane things) could perhaps have been said better with the word character. well said.



True, It's a bit hard to get away from this for the average working American. Our society dictates that in almost all cases there should be familys where both adults work full time, A return to a 1 person working family with a parent at home to support and help educate the children would certainly be very helpful



as stated this was a blurb that i quoted from another on how the education systems of the top two rated countries have achieved those statuses.

they certainly didn't just stat pad the equivilancy test's like we do here, and one could also make the argument that teaching for the future can develop the same "fit mind" that teaching for today does. As your the professional in this department i shall bow to your better judgement.


Agreed, did not mean to infer, that that any of the education parts rest solely on educators and / or parents.

I believe this might be the area where we might start to really disagree, Everyone certainly has the right to choose their friends and associates. We wouldn't be human if we didn't.

What i'm referencing, and i think what you would agree with if you thought it over, Is that we need to re-develop our critical thinking skills to get past the messages in the public which say "Hate and distrust everything that is unfamiliar to you"

You don't need to be a conspiracy theorist to easily see that the way our government achieves its goal is by dividing and controlling groups of individuals by playing to things that are important to that group. It has created a "Football" Team mentality in the american voter, Either your playing for the red's or the blue's. If your on one team the other is the embodiment of evil.

The truth is that there are shades of EVERYTHING.....

Respectfully, no more oversimplified than thinking that a return to a strictly christian values country is gonna fix everything. I mean lets be honest here, the social agenda's being carried out here in the states, are pretty darn tame compared to some of the social agendas the US attempts to carry out overseas. (think drone strikes with constant civilian collateral deaths etc)



I can't decide if your saying this in the form of "its a shame they do because if they didn't have this stance they might get elected" or if you say it from the stance that you could not support them since they do favor it.

Either way my opinion falls perfectly in line with theirs.. I will go so far as to say Thank goodness the do want to legalize. Understand something, I am a non user.. (well there was that one time in college sneaking out with a girl who enjoyed an occasional smoke) but i digress.... :rotfl:

The war on drugs has done nothing but make hundreds of drug king billionaires, incite what amounts to basically open warfare south of our border, and provide fuel to hasten the stripping of own our citizens rights.

IMO its the proverbial 900lb gorilla in the room.... everyone knows that they are gonna have to recognize it sooner or later.... but no one wants to be the first to do so. Drugs will be legalized in our lifetime, there is simply to much science showing that it MUST be done.

Sadly, there is so much $$$$$$ wrapped up in continuing the "WAR" that it means millions more people are going to pay unnecessary penalties, fines, and prison terms before the nonsense will end. You simply cannot regulate what someone is going to do with there own body. You would think that we would have learned that lesson from prohibition.

not a follower of him, but this has the makings of a good sound bite.



Then again perhaps its just the law of entropy at work :) (said with proverbial tongue in cheek)

Many of these bullets point can be applied to the "Show me the Money" rule.... find out who his action benefited (almost always going to be a "megacorporation" think "monsanto, tyson, etc etc "

Now.... let me lay this on you.

What if O'drama is in power because he represents an ideal person to "blame" for all the changes that are happening in america? You would be hard pressed to find a more suitable scapegoat for middle class america to blame for the continued lessening of what america once was.

Please don't misunderstand me... I hate him as well... but your kidding yourself if you think he has achieved all this without help from both sides of the aisle as well as huge money backing it.

Just saying.

MG, I was taught at home my whole life and in what seems to be a similar way to what you are doing with your kids. Kudos! I really respect the sacrifices that I know you and your wife must make for the benefit of your kids.

I think Jesus summed it all up for us when he gave us the two great commandments:

1. Love the Lord your God with all Heart, Soul, and Strength.

2. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.

As Christians we can only show the love of Christ through action and deed to our neighbor. The problem with this country and this world is that there are too many fan's with too few followers. If we start working on ourself the world and our surroundings would be much better off.

I think you've figured it out. Use the quote and then cut and paste the tags at the beginning and end of the quoted material.

I think you need to separate legitimate criticisms on how drug laws are enforced from the question of whether (and which and for who) drugs are illegal in the first place. Suppose that laws against child prostitution were brutally enforced with blatant disregard for Constitutional rights, would this support a case to legalize child prostitution?

Now there is certainly a lot of problems with current drug laws and their enforcement. Among these: Most federal drug laws are an overreach of federal power far beyond congressional authority to regulate interstate commerce. In most cases, drug laws should be a purely state issue. Laws allowing agencies to confiscate property before anyone is convicted of a crime perpetuate and encourage bad behavior on the part of government officials. The US Constitution is the supreme law if the land, and government employees who violate it should face stiffer penalties (as corrupt officials) than the alleged offenders who they are purportedly trying to catch.

My case that drugs should remain illegal is framed around three basic ideas:
1. Many recreational drugs do harm that goes far beyond the individual user and greatly increase the likelihood that the individual user will become an undue burden on his employer, his family, his insurers, his landlord, his creditors, other associations (school, sports, religious), and society as a whole. Making and enforcing effective laws against driving under the influence is a particular challenge.
2. Laws train the conscience of young people, and many teenagers approach adulthood with the notion that if an act is truly wrong or dangerous, then it is against the law. Once legalized, there will be many more users both because the conscience will more easily accept it, and because it is simply more widely available.
3. As a practical matter, substances that are legal for adults are much more easily acquired by minors. Laws against alcohol and nicotine use by minors are very rarely enforced, and I would hate for those providing marijuana to children to face no more penalty or effective enforcement than those providing cigarettes.

In a libertarian utopia where insurers, fathers, sports teams, schools, employers, and other interested parties could contractually insist on drug testing and there would remain criminal penalties for fraud or theft by deception for lying/cheating on drug tests, a society might still maintain sufficient safeguards. But merely legalizing recreational drugs in the current nanny state where many insurers, employers, traffic enforcement, and other parties which have interests in limiting exposure to drug users cannot fully protect their interests is a likely disaster.

I remember a high school principal once almost fired me (as a math teacher working in the school) because I overheard students in class talking about their weekend drug use, told their parents, and suggested their parents use widely available at home drug tests to monitor and bring correction to their children's behavior. I am confident I would have been fired had I not resigned first. 80% of the seniors at this high school were regular recreational drug users. The school resource officer, the principal, the school nurse, and most of the teachers either did not care, or had been manipulated into not acting by their desire for a paycheck. Effectively teaching math, physics, and chemistry was impossible.

Any path to drug legalization certainly needs to empower any and all associates of possible drug users (parents, schools, sports teams, employers, coaches, traffic enforcement, insurers, etc.) to implement effective drug testing programs (if they choose) as a condition of ongoing association. I would certainly want my daughter's prom date to pee in a cup before allowing my daughter to ride in his car! I would also want our military to retain the power to restrict drugs under the UCMJ.

I am curious if your view of libertarian ideals would grant all associates of possible drug users the rights to choose and limit their associations (if they wished) by insisting on drug testing as a condition of association. After all, what justification is there in limiting civil contracts not to permit drug testing under any relationship where one of the parties feels it may be necessary or desirable?

pretty good argument there. You raised some very valid concerns that I have not thought of.

I'm opposed to legalization, but I think comparing marijuana to child prostitution hurts your argument.

I have to run out for a bit tonight. But in a quick comment i will say that those are the same arguments used to promote prohibition.

Will discuss further either later tonight or when i have a chance to get back on the computer.

Discussion after this moved to Libertarian view on drugs.

Before addressing some of the things below, I want to clarify a bit. When i referred to "legalization" I am speaking of drugs which are considered to be "Soft" i.e. Alcohol, Nicotine, Cannabis / Weed / MJ etc, Mushrooms and like.

So now we can proceed.

As indicated above I have clarified that i take this discussion to be one on the legalization of various "soft" drugs. Although compelling arguments can be made that one should even legalize "hard" drugs i do not believe that this is the correct time or place to discuss those.

To be blunt here MG, there is no comparison between shoplifting, child prostitution, legalized murder or any other violent crime / crime against another person that you care to use as an example.... if you ask why? its because "soft" drug use is a personal decision that can be made by an adult and does not in and of itself cause any harm what so ever to anyone else.

Every other example listed involves one human either physically or monetarily harming another.

Basically i agree with what your saying in this paragraph, The current laws pertaining to "soft" drug use are the very definitions of insanity. When violent person on person crimes (assault & battery, rape, etc) receive lower sentencing due to silly "get tough on drugs" laws, then there is something very very wrong with our system.

Although the current AG has proposed sweeping reforms to how non violent drug offense crimes are handled (by seemingly fast tracking them into treatment programs rather as an alternative to jails) I am viewing these actions as a stopgap attempt to continue the "war" on drugs, and just changing from prison punishment to one where drug counseling programs will be the new benefactors of a massive federal cash infusion. It will kind of make for a somewhat "perfect" storm ... drug war and it's associated cost's will get to continue, and the drug counseling programs will get a huge present under the tree this christmas. If this goes thru expect to start seeing a lot of commercials for "compassionate care for your loved one's suffering from addiction."

On subject #1: Again when discussing "soft" drugs that are currently illegal the exact opposite of what you are stating has been proven on many many different scientific fronts. Whether you want to look at studies conducted here in the states, or one's conducted overseas in countries where "soft" drugs are either legal, or de facto legal. Everything points to the fact that legalization results in lower levels of drug use by residents of that area (although there is some uptick in tourism drug use) lower petty and violent crime rates, in short legalization, regulation, and control help!

The making and enforcing of laws to cover vehicle use, while under the influence have already been done. Therefore they are no longer a challange, IMO it's very similar to Alcohol. You administer a field sobriety test, if the person fails said test they are then required to submit to a drug test to determine THC levels in their sample. Case closed, book 'em Danno.

On subject #2: Again the exact opposite of what your stating has been scientifically studied and proven in test bed countries like Portugal and the Netherlands, as well as many many studies here in the states.

The Netherlands experienced a static level of drug use after legalization of "soft" drugs. After removing the increase in drug use seem by drug tourism. They actually saw a significant reduction in drug use of the local population.

Portugal decriminalized and has not even gone so far as to begin regulation. And they have shown a significant downturn in all (not just soft) drug use. Incidentally HIV infections due to infected needle sharing have all but disappeared.

on Subject #3: Study has shown that making a drug illegal has at best no impact on teenagers desire and ability to obtain the drug. In point of fact most studies show that teenagers tend to rebel rather than conform. I have to ask you here MG, If you are the guardian of a teenager who is choosing to rebel without your permission. Would you prefer that said teen purchase their weed in a enviroment that's controlled and regulated to ensure safety. Or would you prefer that said teen purchase the drug in the "Black Market / Gang Underworld" as they do now.

If you feel that the second option is the better of the two, please in detail explain to me how you feel that it would be the better option.

If it's a case of an "adult" straw purchasing the drug for the minor, please answer the same question in regards to whats more beneficial (legal purchase vs black market)


There is no difference between who is currently insured and is a user of "soft" drugs, and who will be insured as a user of "soft" drugs post legalization. It is none of any insurance, employers, schools, teams, etc parties business what you as a person do with your personal time. None of the above "Sky is falling" issues presented any real concern in other country's who have legalized. Again, the scenario's remain clear. Same as if your intoxicated with alcohol in one of these situations. A person will report that they believe you may be under the influence, your then given a field sobriety test to determine if you are or not, if you fail you have the option to submit to drug test and / or lose your job, team affiliation...etc.

There have been loads of published studies which indicate that a person's capacity to learn is not hampered by reasonable level's of "soft" drug use. Does that mean you can learn if your stoned / drunk off your ***... probably not. But the overwhelming majority of drinkers do not choose to be drunk 24 hrs a day. I propose to you that the overwhelming amount of soft drug users will also have little or no desire (not to mention the financial means) to be stoned all the time.


So we should start administering BAC (blow in the tube sir) tests to all at every opportunity? Should there be a BAC tester ignition disabeler installed in every vehicle straight from the factory? Have you asked your daughter's prom date to blow in the tube when he last picked her up? Will you stay up until the return home and expect him to blow in the tube again then? And i'm sure your daughter's prom date wants to know how many shotguns you have and if your proficient in there use :)

I jest a little, but really. The sky will most certainly not fall and everyone will most probably not go completely slap insane if soft drugs are all legalized.

So I would only get to join your secret handshake club if I were to pass a drug test? That's not discriminatory at all is it? Going to go out on a limb here and say that if any "secret handshake club" is more worried about a prospect being an "evil" drug user than whether they are recruiting a solid upstanding member of society, who pays his taxes, loves his family, contributes to his community....... who may occasionally smoke a herb on the weekend etc... well they probably are looking at the wrong stuff and are not gonna be to popular an organization anyways.

I do certainly espouse some "libertarian ideals"

But i have learned my lessons well in life, and i do know this. What's right is right, And you should always "Aim small, Miss small" (ie Aim for the stars, when you make it to the moon it won't be a dissapointment)

Ace, do you currently smoke weed?

I really don't care one way or the other, just wondering since you seem to support it.

Swamp believe it or not i don't touch the stuff. I did try it during my younger days and quickly realized that the only effect it really had on me was to make me hungry (when i reconciled that fact with already being a lard *** i realized it would not be a good thing for me)

I was fortunate in my younger years that a close friend who did smoke was the person who purchased the product and shared it with me. I say i was fortunate because if i had been exposed to a dealer pushing other products.... Well i have always had an addictive personality(have been hooked on copenhagen, cigs, and alcohol to some extent in my younger days) so i wouldn't be surprised if i would have ended up as a statistic if I had tried worse drugs.

I am however very very intolerant of some of the sideshow's that the government has made of these issues. What could we achieve as a country if all we did was stop this rediculous war on drugs and restarted the hemp industry. We could have a country like most euro zone countries where good solid healthcare was free and considered to be a basic human right. We would have a country where incredible sums of money could be shoved into strong infrastructure growth programs, thereby insuring quality standards of living for our children, rather than the current path to a third world country status.

Sadly the could would probably not happen.. the money will simply line to pockets & bank accounts of people who already have so much of it that they no longer have a use for it.

Some interesting facts on hemp...this is my favorite one.

14. Henry Ford’s first Model-T was built to run on hemp gasoline and the car itself was constructed from hemp! On his large estate, Ford was photographed among his hemp fields. The car, ‘grown from the soil,’ had hemp plastic panels whose impact strength was 10 times stronger than steel. (Popular Mechanics, 1941.)

http://listverse.com/2009/04/15/15-f...ts-about-hemp/