What happened to showing some restraint.
 

What is up with stories like this. I have utmost respect for anyone brave enough to wear a badge as a LEO in today's world, But why are there so many "shoot first & ask questions later situation"

This has to stop!

Power.

Here's another good one.

http://youtu.be/SnjYrXd9ycA


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Read an article the other day that said you are 3 times more likely to be wrongfully shot by a police officer than by a ccw permit holder. If you have dealt with many cops you know that a large percentage of them arent very bright.

On one hand you have neighbors calling 911 saying the man is walking around with a baby and pointing a gun at people.
On the other hand you hav an officer who has been involved in 7 shootings in the last 10 years, 6 of them fatal. It doesn't say if he was the shooter in all of them though.
I guess you have have no choice but to let the investigation get the truth out. I'd be curious to know how 7 shootings in 10 years compares to other cops. Is that Dirty Harry or is it just common occurance?

7 in 10 years is a lot I would say. I have two friends that have about 30 years in between them. 3 shootings. Sounds like this guy is a little too trigger happy. It will be an internal investigation and the whole truth will never come out. They always protect their own.

Until you have walked in their shoes, you have no idea!!! You guys crack me up!! Internet tough guys that are going to arm chair quaterback an incident you have no knowlege of. Only what you see on a Youtube video. Why were police there??? Oh, that's right - neighbors called because he was whacked out carrying a kid waving a gun. It said officer "thought he saw" and that is all that is needed in a perceived threat.

I invite any of you to come for a 12-14 hour shift on a ride-a-long to some of the areas we work. By all means, feel free to jump out and get your hands dirty at anytimes! It's very easy to critize when you have no idea what is going on out there. I recently had a "community activist" complain to our chief. When asked what I thought we should do, I immediately told him to have him ready to go Saturday night. I picked the guy up at his house at 8pm and drove around for 2 hours visiting. Then I got down to business and by midnight he asked me to take him home. By Wednesday of the next week he had a letter in the paper saying how "disappointed" he was in his community.

I was involved in a shooting this past November. That guy was unarmed. Until you have been there, "shut the * UP.

I think a basic question we have to ask is whether law enforcement should be held to a higher standard, the same standard, or a lower standard than ordinary citizens when determining the reasonableness of their use of deadly force.

I think in most states, the legal requirement is actually that they be held to the same standard (which I agree with), but those applying the standard when deciding on the legality of the shooting tend to give law enforcement officers every "benefit of the doubt" whereas, they often do not give ordinary citizens the benefit of the doubt, but proceed with an approach that the shooter is guilty until proven innocent. This effectively creates a double standard for evaluating officer involved shootings, which is what most citizens find repugnant.

I've published some papers on shooting event reconstructions and also served as an expert scientist for the plaintiffs suing law enforcement in the wake of bad shootings. It is reprehensible how deceptive law enforcement can be in the process of hiding evidence and refusing to comply with court ordered discovery in the process of covering up bad shootings. If a shooting was justified, then they should have no problem in quickly complying with court orders to provide the plaintiffs' attorneys with access to the firearms, the type of ammunition, radio and 911 transcripts and tapes, training records, and email records.

X2
Thirty three years in law enforcement, over one thousand arrests, I thank God I never had to shoot someone though several situations came close. I don't remember how many times I've been to IAD but was never found guilty of any of the false charges. IAD Lt. stated, Rick, show me a cop who's been on the job 20 years and never been to IAD and I'll show you a cop who probably wasn't doing his job. People complain about cops all the time for reasons too many to list here.

Agreed those cops that taser 7-8 year olds and 85 year old women. They had no choice. I mean what else could they do in that situation. That 7 year old had a stick and could have hurt someone.
I go on ride alongs with Lafayette PD on occasion and It's unreal what cops have to deal with sometimes but that doesn't make it ok to smash some lady's face because she hurt your feelings or taser a 80 year old woman because she is a little uppity. How bout just grab them and carry them off.

Rationalize this one please.

http://youtu.be/6wYwMnTzuPI


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Clampy, you can post videos all day long! Until you earn a check or fight your way out of situation with me - we are not on the same page. I can post Youtube videos all day long of men/women that are 6' in the ground today because they were soft when it came time to deal with someone. How about the 2 detectives in Florida killed by the man that was handcuffed in the back seat of their car. Scum bag carried a handcuff key in his waistband of his underwear, got loose, reached across and got a pistol from detectives holster. Shot both of them in the head while driving to station. Oh, but wait, he was unarmed! - until he gained control of one. Every encounter we have is the potential for death.

I have a few good friends that are cops and the stories I get aside from entertaining are crazy but most cops seem to take up for all of them no matter if what they did was right on wrong. A certain % of the pop are douches and to act like one of those can't put on a uniform is ridiculous. It's sad cuz we need cops but the crappy ones are the only ones getting publicity.


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I know a guy that was a Colfax cop. He fataly shot and killed an unarmed man while he was running away. Dude got 5 years and thats it. If you or I put a round in an unarmed persons back we are looking at 25 to life. They should not be above the law.

Yes that's terrible but it's not a 86 year old bed ridden woman with 10 cops in room. But I guess she could have a AR under her pillow.


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So you have an 86 y/o woman that is pshyc - and armed with a knife. So do I shoot her with a Glock .40, take a knife wound to my chest (body armor doesn't stop a knife) or use a less than lethal tool to assist in disarming a suspect??????? See what I mean, the general public looks at things one way, while a cop looks at it another.

It is irrelevant her age or mental capacity. The fact that we are there at a residence is not some random choice. We don't pick a house and then just stop by to see if someone is overdosing! They were called there for assistance with a suicidal elderly lady that probably has dementia. Why didn't her grandson disarm her? I wasn't there, but I can see an officer using a Taser rather than beat a woman down that is 86.

I mean this little girl was going to hurt herself. How dare her. We got that.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-girl/2951083/



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I can say most cops are great people can you say a few of them COULD be douche bags ?
I think that would end this disagreement. I'm sure you are a good cop by the things you have previously posted I'm sure of it but you have to admit some douches put on cop uniforms every day.


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Oh my!!! A few! - Hell, I know a bunch!!! And what really suck is civil service laws protect them. That is the one thing I wish I could change. Short of a felony, the administration of departments are really tied when dealing with personnel. I don't plan on going to jail for my actions - you can bet your arse I'm not going to jail for someone else's actions!!!

Most old school cops are great guys. These newbies they roll out of academies are nothing more than drones programmed to follow orders.

Thank you. End of my argument.


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Clampy- my disagreement with you is not that POS cops are out there, we all know that already. My disagreement is people posting a Youtube video bashing a cop for a situation that they were not involved in. The world's worst is the Associated Press!! Had you been in Phoenix and present when the officer shot and killed this man, your opinion on the subject would be a talking point. And as far as "some cops being douches", would you say we have more cops that are douches, or general public causing grief to society that are douches?

Here you go from this morning's news!
http://www.katc.com/news/shreveport-...lice-shooting/

I guess the SPD officer should have sacrificed the SFD medic in a bid to disarm the old fart!! Hypoxia from COPD or an asthma attack could have set him off in his combative state without any history of pshyc problems - in the end he is still dead as a door nail and the cop did his job and will be cleared after a few weeks of paid time off.

You are correct. I never really commented on the phoniex situation. Too many holes. They got called for a dude with a gun. So what is he supposed to think. As far as the ratio if it's based numbers alone it's the public fa sho. Now if it's % thing I dunno. Hard to answer that one. I know cops are trained a certain way like if you are threatened by a dog to shoot it. I saw a video of a raid on dudes house and the cops burst in and promptly shoot his YORKIE in front oh his 7 year old girl by the way they found a weed pipe in his house. I mean come on. Kick the dog maybe in that situation ?? Of course I would argue they shouldn't have been there in the first place but that's a whole other can of worms.


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my dad is approaching his 20 years in a much larger metropolitan area than anywhere around here. Hell, the area has more total people than this state. He tells me how he is sick and tired of dealing with the bullsh*t at work, how the newer guys are all gung-ho trying to see how many tickets they can write or arrests they can make. He says that the new force is nothing but a high school clique, mostly of people who were picked on or had trouble like that growing up so they want that power aspect.


What REALLY chaps my *** about like charles is the amount of police we have. City, Sheriff, State, Marshall, US Border & Customs, and Game Wardens.

Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention the police officers in town who go out, get drunk at a brag about being an officer, then casually get in their car and drive home. Sometimes its their patrol car they get to take home.

Don't get me started on speeding, unsignaled lane changes, tailgating, or any other traffic violations I see officers commit simply because they think they are the law.

Sucks that some bad apples ruin the reputation of the whole.

Really dude, you need to go burn a doobie! Your pops had the same thing said about him when he was a rookie 35 years ago, but doesn't realize it.

LMAO!! I love when people ask me why we drive so fast with no lights on and think we are above the law! My response to a lady at the store the other day -"because we can"!

"If you want the freshest bread, marry a baker. You want the best steak, marry a butcher. Want to drive fast, become a cop"! Oldie, but goodie!!!! And for the record, I got written up the other day for breaking our driving policy - dang new Chargers are faster than the old ones!

A friend of mine graduated the academy about a year ago. I asked him what he learned about open carry being legal. He said it was not taught to them. Thats very concerning since I open carry a cocked and locked 1911. Shouldnt open carry laws be need to know information for cops? That is nothing but an accident waiting to happen due to a failure of education on the police departments part.

Got one in the shop right now from the PD and, yeah, that thing is a rocket!!!:smokin:

Originally Posted by Finfeatherfur LMAO!! I love when people ask me why we drive so fast with no lights on and think we are above the law! My response to a lady at the store the other day -"because we can"!

"If you want the freshest bread, marry a baker. You want the best steak, marry a butcher. Want to drive fast, become a cop"! Oldie, but goodie!!!! And for the record, I got written up the other day for breaking our driving policy - dang new Chargers are faster than the old ones!


well arent you two guys some cool cops!

well arent you two guys some cool cops! [/QUOTE]
Don't hate!!! LMAO!

This is a "no-no"!

FinFeatherFur,

As i said in my original post i have a very high level of respect for most police officers i have met in my life. I like many have also met a few who were borderline insane.

I didn't post the video as an insult to you or your brother's in blue. I posted it as a question, The question being, Why was there no restraint in this situation.

True someone called 911 and said the guy was parading around with a kid and a gun. (but i can call 911 and complain that my neighbor is shoving live hand grenades up a dog's rear end.... doesn't make it true)

He was unarmed when police arrived, He was not imminently going to hurt the child, a police officer, and or anyone else.

Why in this situation is a "kill" shot the go to solution?

I mean are you telling me i am 1 mental breakdown away from potentially getting killed by a police officer?.... lol dude.. i need to get my doctor to write me a script for some happy pills to keep handy just in case....

And yes i know we were not there and we don't know the whole situation.... but the admitted facts are still the facts... there was no pressing danger to anyone at the scene, why was lethal force the first rather than last option?

For what it's worth, thank you for your service to your community.
I would love to ride along with you anytime. (not because i think i am a badass or anything, but because knowledge helps in many ways)

I have no doubt that you have to walk a fine line, and i am sure that if it was me, I would not be very happy if a bad apple was making me look bad.

This to me is different... we were not there and do not know how imminent an attack was on either the public or the police officer... the bad guy had a knife and I presume was given the option to put it down. If he refused to comply and / or made a move against the officer / another person...

I have no issue.

here you go Jims....

AceArcher. To give you the simple answer - YES, you are jsut one mental breakdown from being killed by a cop.......... if the situation warrants it! Always remember that!! Each and every situation is different. And not being there, how can anyone say what was happening. The media is biased and I hate reporters because they are all doing the same thing - giving the public what they "want" to hear, instead of what they "need" to hear!

I'm not a cop but, I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

Very scary,

What's the accepted best way to inform an officer that you open carry when your involved in a traffic stop etc?

LOL - Try "sir, I have a gun on my side". That usually works just fine.

I hear you, but i am gonna have to say that if i pose no threat to anyone (ie. i am not armed) (or if i am armed i am willing to comply with the law) then i should not be shot, and if the police officer chooses to shoot first and ask questions later.... he should be hung out to rot after my funeral.

Agreed wholeheartedly about the media. All of it is agenda based. Like i said i value the good work the police does a hell of a lot more the occasional bad.

For the record - there is no such thing as a "kill" shot. We shoot center mass. End of story. It looks good in the movies when the criminal is running at 40 yards and they throw a round to the platella dropping him for a quick interview about the crime before making him limp off to jail.

If in a traffic stop, you really aren't open carrying in LA. Your vehicle is an extension of your home. I've been stopped twice with my pistol in my truck. Both times, I just slid it up onto the dash before they ever even got out of the car, away from my reach. Both times they saw it and, I told em it was, of course, loaded. In those two instances, I never had any other trouble or questions about it but, I was asked to step out of my vehicle, which I understand their logic on that.

here we go - making more out of it!
I said "if the situation warrants it" and if you say "you pose no threat" than why would the situation warrant me even pulling my weapon??? We are like a dog chasing a tail in this conversation. If the situation warrants me discharging a weapon, than so be it. I better have my ducks in a row because the LSP will be investigating it and it aint pretty - trust me!

If your wife calls and says she has a husband going off the deep end, I arrive to find you in the house tearing it up with her favorite tennis racket, I will ask you to put it down, then I will tell you to put it down, then I will make you put it down! In that order!!! - Doesn't matter to me that you got home to find her fat arse in bed with her tennis coach and your secretary having a 3some. The situation is you are angry, emotional, and swinging a tennis racket which I percieve as a weapon that can do me great bodily harm in this case.

If I get to your residence on the same call and you are sitting watching the Saints game, and tell me you just told her you want a divorce and she is freaking our, it will be handled as a "B- baker" call (no report/back in service).

tennis racket > gun


:shaking:

but you can still drive fast!

For all you people getting your education and news from You Tube:

"There are as of 2006, 683,396 full time state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers in the United States. There are approx. 120,000 full time law enforcement personnel working for the federal government adding up to a total number of 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the U.S."

Now, do your math and give me the percentage of bad cops. The rate of bad priests is ten times that in the Catholic Church. I am a retired police officer, Detective First Grade and Parole Officer, and I am a Roman Catholic. I accept that there are bad representatives in all walks of life, but I still deal with reality, and an extremely large majority of law enforcement deserve the respect they earn from the majority of law abiding citizens.

cgoods17, if you come at me with your daughter's make up bag, I will draw down on you like Annie frickin Oakley! I will go home at the end of a shift - and you can say what you want!!!! How do I know what's in that make up bag??? Really? You are some kind of dumb!!! A tennis racket will kill you just as fast as a baseball bat.

Just because I wear a badge and body armor doesn't mean I have to get beat and end up in a wheel chair from a head injury living in a vegetative state.

Have you ever seen anyone on "wet"? I tell you what, come ride with me and I will let you walk in the house first at a domestic and see what you think!

Hands in plain sight and tell him I have a gun. I have never had a problem during a traffic stop. The problems I have had is when im in a store and a cop notices my gun. They always want to question me for during absolutly nothing wrong. Had one cop tell me that me having a gun in his presence made him nervous. He didnt like it much when I said him having a gun in my presence made me nervous too. Me and that guy went back and forth for a while then he made a call to have a uniformed officer come and talk to me. Obviously who ever he called informed him that I was not breaking any laws because he was doing some serious crawfishing after he got off the phone. However he did not apologize for harassing a law abiding person due to his lack of knowledge.

Exactly!!

This isn't a beat up the cop day, or find screwed up **** on the internet day.

In this specific case the man was carrying his 9 month old child, he was not harming the child, he was not harming his neighbor's, he was not harming himself. At worst he was having mental breakdown and screaming obscenities / threats.

A police officer made an aimed shot on the guys head. Now i am a damned good shot, but i know that if i am aiming at something's head rather than center mass... it's going to be a aimed / careful shot / not a quick defensive one. When you add in that the guys was holding a child? am I supposed to presume that the officer would take less time making that shot? hell no... if he's a sane and stable officer then he would be even more careful making the shot... who the heck would want to accidentally kill a baby?

I have to find fault with the officer here.... He used a grossly unnecessary level of force that ended up killing a man who was doing nothing more wrong than having a bad day. In the process he endangered the life of a 9 month old child.

I get that your saying we shouldn't jump to conclusions but this is what the PD and the other officers at the scene say happened ( I mean if i can't trust the police's version of events what the hell)

Assuming that the other officers are not lying about what the shooter did, I can't see anyone condoning what this officer did.

FFF, i am not using this as an excuse to demonize you, I have said and recognize that the good you guys do is amazing. Anyone that thinks anything less should go walk down a ghetto street in detroit wearing a gold watch and see how long they last.

I am saying that this cop is way the hell out of line, and I would hope that most cops wouldn't want him anywhere near them.

I agree with this and expect that if someone is coming after you, then you can and should draw down on them.

However, I don't know you... yet i still doubt you would plug a guy in his forehead, while he was holding his 9 month old baby, when he had no weapons (of any kind) just because he was talking a bunch of ****.

What your saying is what i would expect of a police officer. Perhaps i am missing something but i don't see how this compares to what happened in the original.

All that said..... My wife said that if you call her arse fat again... she gonna take you out... Officer or not... :)

(The above is satirical....ie.... satire... not serious.... oh shiz don't show up at my house and shoot my wife bro... )

:)