should red and drum limits be changed?
 

way back when the gill net ban happened and they were reducing limits because of overfishing bruhaha was going on the GCCA and politicians agreed that drum had to be protected the same as redfish or the restuarants would quickly deplete the drum stocks as well by selling them as "blackened redfish" in all the restuarants. all just in case it "might" happen since you cant tell the difference after its cooked.

they also said at that time, the 5 fish limit was only temporary and the redfish limits would be doubled and the drum limits would be removed once the redfish stocks returned to normal healthy state. well the redfish stocks are at record levels of overpopulation yet they will never honor what they said to get those regulations passed.

im not a greedy fisherman but I dont hunt so I do depend a lot on putting fish in the freezer to make groceries or go hungry. many days I just eat potato stew with no meat.

there is absolutely no reason why they cant double the red limit to 10 and reduce the size to 14" as well as remove all restrictions from drum. most people don't keep any sized drum anyways and I would much prefer reds that are 14-15" long then those over 18" because the small ones are better eating.

they only know how to take things away from us with new regulations but they will never give anything back in the form of increasing limits on things that no longer need strict oversight and protection like reds and the drum that never did and never will need protection.

its high time drum limits are removed completely and the red limits are increased to at least 10 a day and the size limits on them reduce to 14" but I doubt they will ever do it.

I think you are probably right. LDWF has lots of data that likely better inform these questions, but to my knowledge, they have been unwilling to release this data to enable a better informed discussion.

CCA has been pushing tighter redfish restrictions in other states, so they would probably oppose loosening the regulations in Louisiana. The LWC has been generally unwilling to move in directions opposed by CCA.

Louisiana has lots of redfish and drum, that's for sure. What's less known is how much black drum negatively impact oyster populations and how hard it is for oyster reseeding operations to establish new oyster reefs in the face of oyster predation by adult drum.

Reds No, 5 reds are plenty plus a Red fish takes years to reach a mature age to spawn, most females don't spawn until they are over 25inchs long

Black Drum on the other hand, it's not a sport fish and we should have no limit on them at all

Drum should be no limit under 27" and 5 over 27

Redfish should be 10 under 27" and 3 over 27"

I don't know about that. The recent removal of slot limits on black bass on 5 lakes ought to be an indication that WLF can go back and change its limits/restrictions.

The problem occurs when politics become involved. I'm not going to get into all of the CCA stuff because I really don't know what they are and aren't fighting for or against behind closed doors, but if MG is right about them fighting for reduced limits in other states, I don't forsee them doing anything but that here.

Using only life history tidbits to establish limits is less than scientific. One should be able to show that a limit is needed to ensure sufficient females reach spawning age. Since redfish became protected in federal waters, the number of replacement breeders needed each year is much, much smaller. The breeding stock would be maintained with much smaller escapement rates than occurring at the present time. Fecundity rates would actually be higher if there were fewer mature redfish, allowing the sexually mature redfish to eat better, maintain healthier weights, and thus produce more eggs. Redfish that are hungry (due to overpopulation) do not produce nearly as many eggs.

The red limit seems fine to me

Blacks should be 10-15 under 27" 12" min
And you should revive a 10$ bounty for anyone over 35"
Use em as fertilizer or something. Maybe that would help oysters out.


Spiral Out

Redfish and Drum also eat a ****ton of crabs....... thats a reason crab stocks are down.

How can I say yes we're I'm heard all da way to the top. I know for the req. guy for shore. But no one seems to hear me.
It pisses me of that I catch so many big dogs and can only keep one. Just as stupid as iligal pot.

Real Talk Rat Dog ;)


Spiral Out

Ratdog post a pick of you holding one of those big reds

Hey from the Hill's of Cuero SO. TX..

Commercial harvest of Drum is Primarily used to Make Artificial CRABMEAT...

And filler when making stuff crabs that are made breaded and sold in stores.. More Artificial crabmeat than REAL CRABMEAT..

I don't catch a lot of Drum.. There is Only a 16" min., no max. and 10 per/ fishermen if My memory is not failing me..

Big drum eat a tremendous amount of oysters.

drum limits are the same as redfish in LA

Why ruin a good thing by being greedy and ignorant? 5 fish per man is plenty, no telling how many fish are freezer burnt in your freezer right now.

Why is insisting that harvest restrictions be based in sound science "greedy and ignorant"?

Why not permit increased harvest levels as long as they are sustainable?

Why allow overpopulated black drum to continue causing harm by preventing oyster reef restoration?

Why allow both red drum and black drum to continue their negative impact on commercial crabbing?

We're careful not to lose fish to freezer burn. We have one bag of fish left in the freezer, and my mom has a couple bags of fish we caught in her freezer.

I never thought I would agree with W but on this I totally agree.

Big black 90% have worms.
Big reds abound. Small reds abound. As fare as age imperial data shows the smaller a fish is harvested the sooner it's species breeds.
3 years is a bit presumptions with out good data. And the growth rate is high for reds.
They all eat a lot and to say a fish with high matabolizm eating alot grows slow well I guess that type don't know didly about fish and should not be in this game of regulation.

When I catch large drum and reds @ 5-6 each a day and can only keep one then something is wrong. I'm not fishing the nurserys like most I see but off shore and up to 3 miles out. So I have a different view of the older fish compared to the babies. And to have a higher catch rate on small fish does not allow for maturity. Go figure kill a bunch of babies and nothing gets big?

It's a big messed up scam like the pot crap. Something that was used for centuries and now the Feds got involved and your life is ruined and you catch two big fish and your life is screwed by the paramilitary water police.

I can eat for three days on one fish it never hits the freezer. And if I could get 2 then I would freeze on day one and eat near a week. I'm not greedy just have a different view of food.


By the way I don't fish reds during breeding season.and I suggest no one should. As I never cought a red with eggs I can say I never stoped a fish from breeding.

I say leave if like it is. 5 redfish is plenty of meat for one person. As for keeping more than one over 27".....why kill the breeding stock when the smaller ones taste way better. I love to catch the big ones but see no need to kill them. Personally I like to go out and catch 20-40 redfish in a day. If we raise limits and lower stocks that would be a thing of the past.

I say leave it the same. The fishery is really thriving. I agree with Montauk about the ones over 27" let the breeding stock swim. I much rather catch plenty between 18"-24" than just a few over 27" just for thw fight.

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WELL THE LIMIT WAS 50 REDFISH PER PERSON

and the point isn't about the amount of meat you or I or anyone else "feels" like is enough. the amount the limit is set at is designed to keep a good healthy population of fish and right now they are so overpopulated they are breeding like rabbits out of control and there isn't enough food to go around for all of them and other species too. as with any species you must thin out the herd to maintain a good healthy breeding stock otherwise they will harm things like crab and oyster populations and reduce the amount of spawn due to them being less able to eat as much from the competition of the shear numbers of them.

no matter what the limit is people will only keep what they want or need, the only thing raising the limits and reducing the size will do is create healthier large fish and they will breed a much larger spawn because of a healthier and better food supply for them and their young.

the mindset of "hey just put a small limit number on them for absolutely no reason" just because a few fish is all anyone should need, that is NOT how proper management of fish populations is done. by that reasoning I could make the case that all any one person needs is one nice speck or one nice red so take your choice you are now limited to only one fish per day limit over 16" for all fish (red, speck, drum, or flounder) so how does that sound for "feel good" for no scientific reason but "just because it sounds good" limitations?

leaving the limits where they are is hurting the red fish and drum populations as well as harming oysters and crab populations from over harvesting them by those overpopulated fish.

if they don't want to change the limits then they should force every redfish or drum caught to be killed regardless of its size, before its put back into the water to stop the overpopulation problem. they are overpopulated and becoming an infestation at this point and something needs to change.

they tried ingoring overpopulation issues before in florida with aligators until they ran out of food and gators were walking down the road and in front and back yards through subdivisions eating pets and living in peoples swimming pools. one 6 footer even came in through the doggie door and the lady found it in the kitchen that morning. they only yielded to public pressure then because kids lives were being endangered by it but the parallels are the same, either start mass killings of reds and drum to reduce the numbers or allow more to be kept by raising limits. however it is done large numbers of them need to start being removed from the water to reduce the overpopulation problem,.

this is not a thing were just ignoring the problem and pretending nature will work it out, nature will work it out by making crabs and oysters reduced to the point that they suddenly need protecting from their breeding stocks being reduced to near nothing.

I agree with most of what you say but let's take a look at the UK and the situation of the Cod. Due to size limits on them and commercial fishing the cod have started breeding at a younger age. So they have altered the normal life cycle of the fish. This is what I feel is happening to reds now.

I really would like to know of how many people have cleaned a fish on the upper end of limit that had eggs.
Or any fish with eggs. And what size it was.

I personally do not want or need to clean more than two fish 30 lb or more. It tires me out after an allredy long day.

With larger limits it would put a burden on the charters during slow days because the customers would want to stay till dark to get their money's worth of meat. Makes for an even tougher day.

Just the mind set of some customers.

Sure the redfish/drum population is thriving but it is killing the oyster and crab industry.

I don't ever recall cleaning a redfish with eggs


Spiral Out

I never have.

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When I helped clean fish for the Hercules we cleaned some Bull Reds with eggs in them.

We can usually put 4-5 bulls (reds and/or drum) in a 120 quart ice chest. These fish are typically 36-42" long and barely fit lengthwise. If I don't have the energy to clean them the same day, we ice them down well and I clean them the next day with no loss of quality. Even when the drum have the parasites, there is plenty of good meat in the back area with the parasites closer to the tail. We've notice a tendency to get more usable, quality meat from bull drum in the cooler months with more waste in the warmest months. Some summers Barataria drum are clearer and some summers Calcasieu drum are clearer.

I'd rather clean 4 bulls than 20 smaller fish. I've done so many that I've got my procedure down, and my wife and daughter have learned how to trim for excellent flavor and how to select recipes that make excellent use of the firmer texture: drum kabobs, drum parmesan, grilled drum, coconut drum, etc. We usually have plenty of fish around for dishes more suited for more tender, flakey fish (catfish, sheepshead, trout, bass, etc.)

Because the ones with eggs are in offshore waters where they spawn and your not allowed to keep reds in fed waters

Yep

Ware were they caught in close or out by rigs.

This whole thing is screwed up.

but that's just it, if you keep the 16" reds they are just as tender and flakey as the catfish, sheepshead, trout, bass, etc, that's why I am so much in favor or reducing the keeper size to 14".

next time you go keep a couple 16" reds and try them the same as you would the other fish. naturally trimming off the red blood meat (and there isn't much of it in smaller fish) but im sure you knew that.

16-17" is best and the meat starts to firm up at 18"+

We keep most of the legal fish we catch, though one that is barely legal (16") might be thrown back so that ice chest shrinkage does not cause a problem for us. There's just not much meat on most 14-16" reds.

I don't think allowing folks to keep 14-16" reds will hurt the resource, so I wouldn't oppose this. However, there is a lot of bias against keeping the smaller fish, so I tend to think that doubling the limit of the existing length ranges is more likely to find wide support.

I found if you "assume" an average shrinkage of 1/4" your ok so I mark my lines at 12 1/4" and 16 1/4" and if it touches the line it goes back but if it goes just past the line i'll keep it.

true theres not much meat on the small fish (16" red is about the same as a 12-14" speck fillet) but the meat texture is worth the extra effort to clean it for that small amount of meat because that small fillet is going to be flakey and tender and not firm and lumpy like the bigger ones are.

for the big ones they are for stews, gumbo, and coobeyon (ya I know I cant spell it) and the small ones are for frying

We've been frying the big ones (redfish and drum) for years. On the spur of the moment one time, we called them "golden nuggets" to create greater interest from the children, and the children became big fans of the texture of the bigger fish when fried.

I like the texture of the bigger fish because they stand up to grilling and kabobs and stuff like that without coming apart. I like tender, flakey fish too, just not all the time.

yep, I usually take the back straps and slice them into nuggets myself when I don't have small ones to fry and I thin slice the rest like they do for big catfish. im just not very good at thin slicing so I butcher a lot of meat and end up making fish patties out of em lol.

didn't want to imply anything was "wrong" with the bigger ones being firm, its just you do different things with them because its firmer meat.

I like bellys and ribbs on the grill wit da terry oxy sauce I calls um baby backs from down under.

Got tooth picks built in and native necklace charms makeing for later.
I would eat more blacks if the ones at fresh water did not have so many worms.......so bad in belly cavity all to tail. A shame as the small ones seem to have them too. Only the pan fryer size that is iligal are edible but I never take them cuz I'm scared of the water police shooting me.

gots news for ya, they are in EVERY fish that feed off the bottom or eat things that do.

cook a small fish whole and suddenly find a hollow spot, that's where the worms were at. the worms are 99% water and basically disappear in hot grease and dissolve to nothing so even if you missed one you are never going to be eating one if the fish is fried. big or small all fish have them you just don't see them because they are small like hair. as fish get bigger so do the worms. they live off of the fish but don't eat the fish so they are just passengers along for the ride like barnacles. they stay in pockets mostly and are easy to cut around or simply grab it and pull it out like strand of spegetti, its like picking the seeds out of a watermellon.

these are not worms like you see in animal meat, they are more like tape worms that feed off of the food the fish eats. the reason drum have so many is they eat off the bottom and often dead items the come accross are eaten and they contain the worms so the worms crawl into the tail section of the fish because its the least firm meat they can bore into so they make their home in the tail. when they get mature they crawl out of the fish and fall to the water bottom where they search for something dead to plant their eggs in to start another batch of worms and when another fish comes along to eat it the cycle starts over again.

I could be wrong about a few minor points in the life cycle process but the overall point is they are nothing more yucky then the dead mullet you find in the fishes belly so those worms that most people freak out over are just something to cut out and discard just like the guts but not a reason not to eat the rest of the fish.

Sorry but my eyes tell me different as do the books.

I have cought several sizes and the worms are very visible spaghetti size thus spaghetti worms and yes some are small in length but with is pretty much the same. Now there are microscopic types that will turn the meat mushy you don't see them but the area they infest is like a bruise and raw meet is a bit mushy.

I got no problem eating worms for protean but I have always felt better eating helthy fish.

As fare as worm meet the large ones seem to move quit a bit more and I find a soak in water with a bit of bleach pulls um out quick if u do it right after catch and clean.

No big deal I use the bad ones for crab bait. But prefer to find a solution to the worm thing. Like reds. But that's me I eat reds 21 lbs and up.

I have never seen spaghetti worms I'm them but have seen mush spot.

I must agree black drum tastes better than red though just wish I could get a big one out of fresh water.

Again I like black drum. And I have always wonderd were comer iCal fishers get worm free ones. I don't think they can sell infected fish on the market.

One other point is you can't just cut um out. In the belly I wish try from head to tail in the meat blood line even swim bladder a bunch of squirming spaghetti.

To me that ain't helthy.

I have thought of as a solution to set up pin and deworming the fish with some sort of worker but the water police would shoot you. And I bet I would be branded a fool again too.especialy for giving them a reson to shoot me.

The rest of the life cycle is they die due to worms or get weekend enough that sharks eat them were they complete there life cycle and produce eggs in the end trails of sharks fed on by drums.

well ya there are sometimes spots that are too many so you cut out or around that section, I wasn't trying to say sit there and pull worms all day.

often you find little 1/4" size pockets here and there and you can pop those right out without much trouble, that's what I was referring to.

I have never seen any worms moving in the fish I kept but I suppose if its still living and hasn't been on ice long maybe they do.

by the way I might eat fish that had worms in them but im not eating bleached fish. (just sayin)

I was reading about them and it was said they DO NOT kill the host, they ONLY live in healthy fish and will exit and leave if they sense the fish isn't healthy. they don't life off of the fish they feed from the fishes blood and or stomach to get nutrients to live.

now i'll agree that a drum with a tail full of worms must not be able to swim as well or as fast as one without worms but if the fish isn't getting enough food then the worms start exiting the body (its a survival instinct for them) and as the fish has less worms it is better able to swim and feed.


by the way, fresh water aint gonna do nothing for ya because bream and bass also have worms if you look closely

I already catch and eat more redfish than probably healthy!

Ok I'm going fishing I just don't think u get or don't thik it's possible.
So pics to come. And read about spaghetti worms. They do kill the fish the para sight s main target are sharks.

Buff said pics on the way.

ok well good luck and happy fishing

if anyone is interested in this topic read this: http://www.seagrantfish.lsu.edu/reso...hettiworms.htm it confirms what I have been saying