how do they get away with this?
 

Most of you don't know me and less know that my wife is handicapped.
She doesn't have to use a wheel chair all the time but does if there is a lot of walking or climbing.
I tried to find a room for us and her fur baby in grand isle for a week in October.
The only place i could find that takes pets is 20+ off the ground and she can't handle the steps . only place that is low to the ground doesn't take pets. It is still not wheel chair accessible.
there are a couple of places that have ramps but the way i see it they don't meet ADA standards. The person in the chair can not use them w/o someone to help them.
There is NO MOTEL on the island that has elevators.
How does a whole town get away with not meeting ADA standards?
When they rebuilt all the dunes on the front of the island they used federal dollars and had to put in handicapped parking and access to the beach. But there is no access to any of the hotels?
I am not a sue happy person but i could have one hell of a law suit that they cold not defend.
I enjoy going to the island and if i sued i would never be able to go back. my name would be flagged and if i showed up they would have me in jail for something?
I guess it's this way in every fishing area as i have never seen access at any of the rental property's

Why is that island exempt to everything else that the known world is subject to? Like drinking and driving, kids driving golf carts and four wheelers on the highway, orgies in public. It's like once you cross that bridge laws cease to exist. I love that place but the laissez fair mentality down there has certainly brought the quality down and the trash in.

Tha ADA laws don't say that they HAVE TO provide access. It is only within reason financially.

It would take a hell of a lot of ramp to get 20 feet up in the air. I know it sucks for your wife. But you gotta look at bother sides of the problem.

I say if the government makes the law they should help business owners pay for it.

Eman I feel for you I understand your frustration but I don't really see the logic in your reasoning. The camps are privately owned; it's the owners choice to provide handicap access. I can understand your argument if the destination was a public place like a State Park which receives tax $$, but these are private businesses.

Leave the doggy at the kennel and rent a cabin with ADA accommodations.

I wish you and your wife the best and hope y'all find a good rental.

i am talking about hotels .Not private camps. Every hotel Has to meet fire codes and ADA standards anywhere else?

From the ADA .gov site:

If an area of my store is reachable only by a flight of steps, would I be required to add an elevator?

Usually no. A public accommodation generally would not be required to remove a barrier to physical access posed by a flight of steps, if removal would require extensive ramping or an elevator. The readily achievable standard does not require barrier removal that requires burdensome expense. Thus, where it is not readily achievable to do so, the ADA would not require a public accommodation to provide access to an area reachable only by a flight of stairs.

Stores and places of lodging are 2 different sections. But i did find a few answers.

I think i found out how they get by .
Lodging built before 1993 is not required to meet 2011 standards.
Any new motels must meet these standards,
The motels on G.I. have only been "remodeled and repaired" after the storms.
Therefore they were all "built" before 1993.

I think a big part of meeting the "burdensome expense" part for the exemption at least for the "off ground" places is the flood height above ground rules on buildings which would necessitate an elevator which might cost $10-$20k or more. but the ground level places and such should be forced to provide disabled access to them.

the pets thing, well lots of places don't allow pets so that's a whole other issue.

its sad they don't have more of an effort to cater to those with difficulties weather just by injury or permanent conditions.

so there are places to rent that are wheelchair accessible but you can't bring the dog? leave the damn dog with a friend. can't be that picky. grand isle isnt a big resort.

My wife asked me to stay out of this but I can't. Leave the dog home. Private business owners should never be regulated to meet the needs of anyone. Go somewhere else if it doesn't suit you. I understand public buildings having such rules but not private business. Our shop is like our house. You are there because I allow it. That can change in a moment.

It isn't Grand Isle, but the Bobby Lynn's had an impressive wheelchair ramp the last time we stayed there. (My wife notices these things because her dad was in a wheelchair). I think they are called Top Water Marina now. I bet they still have the ramp.

no there are no places wheel chair accessible just 4 feet off the ground instead of 20 feet.

There is a similar suit going on in Lafayette right now. There are certain loopholes that allow business owners to be exempted from the ADA standards:

According to Title III of the ADA older businesses are not necessarily grandfathered in. They must remove barriers for customers with disabilities when “readily achievable” — that is, “able to be carried out without much difficulty or expense,” according to the law. Now that being said, Im pretty sure that any new construction that took place should be in compliance with ADA law.

Edit: As much as I didnt want to address some of the comments on here... private businesses arent private businesses as you think they are when they cater to the public. Ill just leave it at that because Im sure there are many hard felt opinions about how DA GUBMIT shouldnt be able to regulate "private" businesses but the fact is that businesses who deal with the public are held to a different set of standards. Just like you cant discriminate on who you serve based on their religion, race, nationality and other things, there are certain laws that are made to accommodate handicap patrons should they decide to frequent the establishment. Im sure many would feel different if they had a member of their family who was handicap.

What kind of shop? Im just curious to know if you serve members of the public or if its more business to business type dealings.

And the bait has been set ...

Not really. My wife's dad was in a wheelchair for over 40 years. Working his wheelchair up and down stairs was a frequent occurance for family members. I don't recall any family members ever saying that every business needed to spend thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars on ADA compliant handicapped ramps in cases where they would seldom be used.

I've spent a lot of time at Bridgeside Marina and Bobby Lynns Marina. Both went through the expense and effort of installing ramps. I've never seen a single handicapped person using those ramps. It does not make sense to me for the government to force business owners to accomodate potential customers when the expected usage is a relatively rare event. This is even more true when other federal regulations (flood insurance and loan regulations) require the bottom floor of buildings to be 15-20 ft above grade. Requiring a 4 ft ramp so handicapped patrons can get into a restaurant is one thing, requiring 20 ft ramps so they can get into most businesses in a place like Grand Isle is absurd.

The public. Now before you go off let me explain. The free market is a great thing. Not being handicap friendly is not a good business decision but it is a decision that should be left to the business owner. It should not be forced on a business. People can refuse to do business with you. Then you loose money but it's your choice and should be. A business can't cry discrimination because a person doesn't do business with them so why should it be different if a business refuses to do business with a particular person or group? Spend money with places that support you. Free market.

Sorry we cant just see eye to eye on this one. Certain classes need protection from this kind of thinking otherwise, there would be no handicap accessible accommodations anywhere and it would be ok for people to turn away from doing business with someone because they are a different color or have a different religion than you. Thats not right, and not the right of a business that serves the public to interject their personal beliefs into the company.

Its kinda like those "we have the right to refuse service to anyone" signs....except you dont... because when someone opens their doors to the public they are held to a completely different standard of civil codes that restrict them from applying their own racism, prejudice, discrimination, etc through their company.


No hard feelings and I know I have an unpopular opinion of this matter in Louisiana because Ive debated this issue before.

Your examples are wrong. A business doesn't have to spend thousands of dollars to accommodate for race and religion. But for handicap they do. But they are not forced to do so even by the ADA Laws.

And the stupidity of enforcing those laws in places like Grand Isle becomes obvious when you realize that a small business would have to spend thousands of dollars to build a ramp now, only to have it very seldom used. Then when a hurricane destroys the ramp in a decade, they'll have to rebuild it again even though it was hardly ever used.

At some point, government forcing business owners to spend thousands to accomodate customers who rarely (if ever) show up to spend money is an unConstitutional infringement on liberty and property. What's next, will every charter boat captain need a handicapped accessible boat? Will every porta potty need a handicapped accessible porta potty next to it?

No hard feelings at all man. You as a consumer have the right to do or not do business with a company for any reason you choose. I think a business should have the same rights. It is my property. No different than my yard and my house. It belongs to me and I allow people to be there. I'm not saying it's a good decision for a business to make but it should be their decision no different than your decision to do or not do business with them.
My wifes aunt lost her business to a fire and had to rebuild. Ada required her to have a handicap accessible bathroom. The fact that the bathroom is for employees only didn't matter. She still had to meet ada code. There will never be a handicap person in there.

BTW you and yours is used in general and not a personal attack on anyone.
Things to ponder.
A gay person can refuse to do business with a Christian baker and nothing happens. Flip the coin and it's a lawsuit.
A muslim can refuse to do business with a Christian store and nothing happens. Flip the coin and it's a lawsuit.
Walmart won't let me carry my gun even though I am breaking no laws. Is it their right? Yes. Should it be their right? Yes. By exercising their right they also insure that Krogers gets my money not Walmart.
My question is when or where does it stop? If you are traveling and break down at our shop at closing time on Friday should I be required to stay after work and fix your car so your family doesn't have to sleep in it all weekend? If I don't fix your car and something happens to you should I be held liable?
Everyone on here can say Duckman is an azzhole and he won't get my money and I think that is perfect but shouldn't a business be able to do the same?

Those examples you cited are a personal entity choosing not to do business with a business. You as a Christian are free to choose not to do business with a gay, Muslim, or any other store that doesnt line up with your beliefs. Turn that around (business not choosing to do business with an individual, and its grounds for discrimination based on the US Constitution.

As far as having to fix someones car... I feel like youre grasping for straws at that one. As long as you chose not to fix their car because of the religion they practice, color, or nationality, then its completely your choice because your company has made their own business hours.

Businesses are not afforded the same rights as individuals.. because their sole purpose is to serve the general public. No exclusions thereof, the general public is the general public. In your example, you are in business to fix cars. Fixing cars for anyone except a certain color or religion etc of people is unconstitutional. Do you get where Im going with this?

Just like my 78 year old grandpa. Hes a JOP. He was elected by the people to confirm that two people are eligible by the federal definition of marriage and the federal definition of marriage only otherwise interjecting his own personal beliefs would be a violation of separation of church and state which we have in a secular society. He had to marry a gay couple... he called us and he had a major issue with it and he considered resigning, but he loves his job its what keeps him busy in retirement so he had to recognize that the legal definition of a state sponsored marriage was defined by the Supreme Court by way of the Constitution so he sucked it up and did the ceremony based on the states definition of marriage.. if my 78 year old grandpa gets it I am having a hard time wondering why so many others dont. Its not the right of the business owner or any public official to interject their own beliefs in their job description. Im not saying this in a spiteful way, Im simply stating that no one is asking anyone to agree with someone elses lifestyle or even support it! all thats being asked is to perform the job you promised to do for the people. If you opened a business to fix cars, fix cars. Their personal lives and moral codes shouldnt concern you if youre in business to fix cars.


Most importantly Im glad we can have a civil back and forth on differing opinions, its not often you find that anymore.

:flagUS:

I understand what you are saying I just disagree. I made no promises to serve the public. I work on people's cars but only if I choose to do so. The choice should be mine to make. I should be able to refuse service for any reason I want. Again I'm not saying it's a good business decision but it should be my decision to make. I don't need the government to dictate what I work on. It's no different than the government dictating what days we have to work. I'll be closed any day I want to be. You have the right to think I'm an azzhole and not do business with me and I think a business should have the exact same right. BTW we do have several gay customers and some handicapped customers. I don't think turning people away is a good business choice but it should be the owners choice to make.

Unless you're a regular customer we work by appointment only. Sometimes we just happen to be too backed up to fit someone in in a reasonable time frame ;)

ha i was waiting for that!

I hate to see evil statists like Cjleger pervert the Constitution.

The framers did not intend individual rights to be forfeited as soon as the individual is asking for payment for their services.

Further, the framers would most assuredly be appalled at the lie that the Constitution demands handicapped ramps be built to access buildings 20 ft high at great expense to the proprietor to serve customers who exist in theory but who very rarely ever show up in person spending money and requiring such accomodations.

The Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 was passed in the House and Senate and signed by GW Bush Sr.... not once has the Supreme Court ruled that the ADA was unconstitutional. Maybe if someone believes it is, they should file suit in court and work its way up to the Supreme Court for a ruling. Until someone does that, I dont think anyone has room to armchair a bill that legally became law and I think the same is true for anyone who has the belief that something is unconstitutional.

Edit: There are countless cases filed by the Paralyzed Veterans of America on behalf of handicap veterans under the ADA who could not gain access to establishments they wanted to frequent. Should they not have done this? Using your theory, they were selfish individuals who were only out to force businesses to spend more money on these theoretical patrons as you describe them...which I take issue with because there is no concrete evidence that you can provide to the show the amount of handicap people who visit Grand Isle and are otherwise inconvenience by the lack of accessibility.. just because youre handicap doesnt mean your life has ended or that you cant enjoy the same things that other people enjoy.


But you know what, the founding fathers arent around to clarify some of the open ended questions we have regarding the application of the Constitution. So all we have left is to trust in the system that they created because if we dont, then what do we have?

Just to pose a question.
If a handicap person can force a business to be handicap accessible would it also be fair to charge a handicap person a higher rate to help offset the cost of building and maintaining a handicap accessible business?

No, because there are federal tax incentives that companies can take advantage of to offset the costs of being compliant.

My understanding is that if something is not listed specifically in the Constitution, it's meant to be handled at the state level. But, the ADA is a federal racket that is killing a lot of businesses.

Here's what I see when I think of the ADA... http://www.facesoflawsuitabuse.org/2...ches-too-high/

Yeah the government doesn't steal quite as much from you at tax time. Not sure how that is a good thing.

Yes, left to the states until it is brought before a judge and elevated to the Supreme Court. Supreme Court refers to the Constitution and interprets it way better than you or I can beceause its literally all they do, then decide on a ruling as to whether or not it is Constitutional. Thats a common myth about ADA, there are many references on the Internet that put myths like "its killing a lot of businesses."

Youd rather think of those instances instead of the good that it has brought into peoples lives but thats ok.. its common for humans to only want to see evidence that supports their opinions. Think of this instead though:

I wont detail all cases but if youre interested to know more about them Google it.

Bates V. UPS
Michigan Paralyzed Veterans V. The University of Michigan
Paralyzed Veterans of America v. Ellerbe Becket
Any lawsuits regarding a service animal and a veteran V. a company

http://www.ada.gov/taxcred.htm

To be fair you asked if it would be fair to levy a charge against a handicap person for the increased costs of accommodation and I based my "no" off of the fact that the govt covers their half.

Taxes arent bad, they are only bad because we have corrupt politicians who dont reinvest our money into something we can see, but thats an entirely different topic and sure to raise everyones blood pressure. :)

So that makes taxes bad. If politicians handle the taxes and mishandle them then that makes taxes bad.

I say we drop all the bs "let's accomodate everyone" regulations. Hear me out.
Without the regulations there will be businesses that will accomodate people no matter their race, religion, sexual preference or physical ability and there will be businesses that won't accomodate. Let the free market work. Spend your money with a place that supports you and your lifestyle instead of a business that is forced to conform under threat of law and may very well in fact despise your very existence.

That makes our current system bad. I dont mind taxes if they were reinvested into the community instead of being sent overseas to countries Ill never go to.

You're right man. They do plenty of reinvesting buit's not the kind we want to see happening. I

I understand your view but what if a person in a wheelchair had to travel 50 plus miles to find a grocery store or drug store that would accommodate their disability. That would suck....

That is a very valid point. Not sure that would be the case unless you already lived that far away from a metropolitan area to begin with. Alexandria isn't big and we have a dozen grocery stores. I'm sure at least one of them would be willing to accomodate just to get the business the others were missing out on. I understand that there is no scenario that will make everyone happy. My thought is that if you own a business it is yours. No differently than you own your home. Your property so you should get to call the shots. As long as you are causing no harm to anyone. By not being handicap accessible you have in no way harmed that person or changed that persons situation.

Understand.....

I truely was not trying to take a shot at anyone with my view point and I hope no one took it that way. Was simply stating that a property owner should have control over who is on their property and why. As long as you are causing no harm to anyone. Physical harm.

I'm sure everyone here understands your point of view. Unfortunately a property owner and a business owner are not the same things in the eyes of the government. Businesses have to follow the rules/laws in place today. Nothing but new laws will change that.

But trust me I wish things were more like you suggest. Letting businesses make their own decisions on these matters and let the free market decide if that business will succeed or not. They probably would still succeed but our government doesn't like that scenario.

Very true and well said.