Cop execution in BR

[seachaser250]

Originally Posted by alphaman

The cop that shot the guy was wasn't able to think under obviously. And his emotion caused him to pull the trigger. I don't think it was intentional. But his emotions controlled his action. The vet said f**k after the shots where fired.


how can this man possible maneuver his right arm to grab a gun that's in his right pocket with 2, 200 plus lb cops on top of him. One kneeling on one arm and a other on top of him.

I think the cop that shot him is younger than the one laying on his back after the shots.



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So were the cops supposed to wait until they were at gun point to then draw on the guy?

I'm not in professional law enforcement but they said he has a gun in a frantic kind of way. Id have to guess they didn't use x ray vision to see the gun through his pants pocket......

[seachaser250]

Originally Posted by alphaman

Yes they seek it out. But I think you missing my point. If a person can change they way they think. They can do better. Is what I'm saying. But by the government giving its not helping a person become better

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I agree with all that 100% except for one part. The government providing help has absolutely no bearing on the issue.

Cocaine dealers are just chomping at the bit to sell me some stuff, heck even give me a first taste for free.........despite that I have still never tried the stuff.

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Having legally carried for many years some close relatives and I have had a number of occasions for interactions with law enforcement while armed. Most have been positive with good LEOs who appreciated and were committed to honoring RKBA with a few notable exceptions.

The exceptions tend to occur when the government employee does not really completely trust citizens with guns or some other factor tips the balance from what should be a respectful interaction into something less positive. As far as we can tell here are some things that tip interactions to the negative:

1. The gov't employee just does not trust citizens, even law abiding citizens, with guns.

Sometimes this is less obvious until they encounter a citizen with a configuration of legal guns of which they are more suspicious, such as an AR style. We've encountered it most often when the second lawfully carried pistol brings the grief. Hint: Answering the question, "Why do you need two guns?" with "For the same reason you do." Is not always the best plan.

2. The gov't employee or a buddy has an agenda.

A close family member started a new gun range near some land owned by the family of a local LEO who perceived their property values to be significantly decreased. Everything was legal, but the neighbors set out to harass him in person after their efforts with the zoning board and the local prosecutor failed.

3. Some member of the community has made an exaggerated report.

It is unclear why gov't employees place so much more trust in those making anonymous reports than in property owners, drivers, and CHL holders even after they know the property owner, driver, and/or CHL holder is law abiding.

All in all, our experience is that gov't employees more accustomed to rural areas are more comfortable with guns and less likely to infer that a report of a "man with a gun" or "shots fired" means that some kind of criminal activity is occurring. Wildlife officers tend to be the best, followed by deputies of rural agencies. The closer you get to urban areas, the worse it gets.

Other than long hair, lots of guns, and (sometimes) a hispanic appearance, our family does not tend to have actions or appearances that tend to suggest drug use or other criminal activities, so I'm not sure how tatoos, bling, a meth head appearance, slurred speech, or simply being black would further complicate interactions with law enforcement while armed.

Of all of the LE experiences I've had while armed only one was less than pleasant. It was right after Sandy Hook. Wass in the AT&T store to get a new phone. Been in there for ten minutes or so open carrying a full size 45. Guy walks in and stands beside wearing normal clothes. Then he asks what department I'm with. Told him I'm not LE. Then he asks if I have a cc permit. Told him open carry was legal so I didn't need a permit. He then pulls out a badge and starts telling me I'm wrong. We had a small discussion in which he said he was gona make a phone call (and did) so he could get a unit there. I agreed to put my gun in the truck. He made the call then after he came back in. He told me after Sandy Hook everyone is nervous. No unit showed up and I over heard his phone call. Whoever he called set him straight on the law but he never apologized or admitted he was wrong.

[alphaman]

Originally Posted by seachaser250

So were the cops supposed to wait until they were at gun point to then draw on the guy?

I'm not in professional law enforcement but they said he has a gun in a frantic kind of way. Id have to guess they didn't use x ray vision to see the gun through his pants pocket......

Once on the ground. They were suppose to proceed to grab his arms and arrest him. We go threw training on how to arrest someone that's on the ground etc.
They couldn't do that bc they were laying on top him tell him to stop resisting. But obviously werent trying to grab his arms to out cuffs on him. BC they where mentally out of it and on top of him. and the guy wasn't fighting at all. Obviously bc 2 200lb guys where on top of him.

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[seachaser250]

Originally Posted by alphaman

Once on the ground. They were suppose to proceed to grab his arms and arrest him. We go threw training on how to arrest someone that's on the ground etc.
They couldn't do that bc they were laying on top him tell him to stop resisting. But obviously werent trying to grab his arms to out cuffs on him. BC they where mentally out of it and on top of him. and the guy wasn't fighting at all. Obviously bc 2 200lb guys where on top of him.

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Guess We will just have to disagree then.

[Feesherman]

Originally Posted by seachaser250

Guess We will just have to disagree then.

I'm with you. An armed man decides to fight with the cops. Why is anyone surprised he got shot? Why does there even need to be an investigation? It was da cops life or his. He chose wrong. I'm dumbfounded that anyone could be taking the side of the thug who decided fighting with the cops was a much better solution than cooperating.

[Matt G]

Originally Posted by alphaman

The cop that shot the guy was wasn't able to think under obviously. And his emotion caused him to pull the trigger. I don't think it was intentional. But his emotions controlled his action. The vet said f**k after the shots where fired.


how can this man possible maneuver his right arm to grab a gun that's in his right pocket with 2, 200 plus lb cops on top of him. One kneeling on one arm and a other on top of him.

I think the cop that shot him is younger than the one laying on his back after the shots.



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As a law enforcement officer, how do you approach a call in which someone pulled a gun on another person? Gun drawn? Same way as you would someone jay walking? I'm honestly curious. Is that something you were trained in, or does the situation dictate the approach? I would imagine adrenaline is high and emotions are on edge. Especially if the call were in a crime ridden part of town.

As far as the guy not being able to get to that gun, I call BS. Watch the video closely. At no point in time did they have full control of his right hand. I'll bet you two guys could try to restrain me in the same manner and I could get to whatever was in my pocket. Anyone who has been in any sort of physical altercation would probably make the same bet. Not to mention that he had on baggy pants which would only make it easier to get to the gun, He wouldn't have even had to get it out of his pocket to get a shot off. Basically a variation of retention shooting.

I feel terrible for the man's family. It was heartbreaking watching his son break down at that press conference. But at the end of the day all of this could have been avoided had he just complied.

[alphaman]

He was Fighting i guess yes but the gun wasn t pointed at the cop so the focus should have been to put cuff on him once on the ground

The cop pulled the gun out his pocket at the end

Yes it was a critical situation but it wasnt a life threatening one. Bc the gun was in his pocket. End result shouldnt have been death. Should have been an arrested person

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[marshrunner757]

I made a bad mistake by turning to CNN last night. Here's the CNN reporter who just happens to be family friends of the scum who was shot interviewing the family attorney and the aunt. Before I know it they've turned it around to this poor black man trying to support his 5 kids by selling CD's outside the store. The aunt says she didn't see a gun. They removed a cell phone from his pocket. The attorney says the man was actually outside guarding and protecting the store! These idiots will put any kind of twist on it possible. Besides that CNN should have never allowed a family friend to report on this. Totally biased media. Don't resist and comply! If you have nothing to hide, it's pretty easy. I view this as a public service by the police.

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[alphaman]

Originally Posted by Matt G

As a law enforcement officer, how do you approach a call in which someone pulled a gun on another person? Gun drawn? Same way as you would someone jay walking? I'm honestly curious. Is that something you were trained in, or does the situation dictate the approach? I would imagine adrenaline is high and emotions are on edge. Especially if the call were in a crime ridden part of town.

As far as the guy not being able to get to that gun, I call BS. Watch the video closely. At no point in time did they have full control of his right hand. I'll bet you two guys could try to restrain me in the same manner and I could get to whatever was in my pocket. Anyone who has been in any sort of physical altercation would probably make the same bet. Not to mention that he had on baggy pants which would only make it easier to get to the gun, He wouldn't have even had to get it out of his pocket to get a shot off. Basically a variation of retention shooting.

I feel terrible for the man's family. It was heartbreaking watching his son break down at that press conference. But at the end of the day all of this could have been avoided had he just complied.

OK. So your saying 2 trained officers cant grab 1 mans arms that's laying on his back? 1 person obviously kneeling on one arm and the other on top of chest area.

Let's roll play these scenarios so you can see how that possible and not possible to reach in your pocket with 2 200lb people on you.

Fellas I'm looking at this from an officer point of view

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[alphaman]

Originally Posted by Matt G

As a law enforcement officer, how do you approach a call in which someone pulled a gun on another person? Gun drawn? Same way as you would someone jay walking? I'm honestly curious. Is that something you were trained in, or does the situation dictate the approach? I would imagine adrenaline is high and emotions are on edge. Especially if the call were in a crime ridden part of town.

As far as the guy not being able to get to that gun, I call BS. Watch the video closely. At no point in time did they have full control of his right hand. I'll bet you two guys could try to restrain me in the same manner and I could get to whatever was in my pocket. Anyone who has been in any sort of physical altercation would probably make the same bet. Not to mention that he had on baggy pants which would only make it easier to get to the gun, He wouldn't have even had to get it out of his pocket to get a shot off. Basically a variation of retention shooting.

I feel terrible for the man's family. It was heartbreaking watching his son break down at that press conference. But at the end of the day all of this could have been avoided had he just complied.

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[Pat Babaz]

Originally Posted by alphaman

He was Fighting i guess yes but the gun wasn t pointed at the cop so the focus should have been to put cuff on him once on the ground

The cop pulled the gun out his pocket at the end

Yes it was a critical situation but it wasnt a life threatening one. Bc the gun was in his pocket. End result shouldnt have been death. Should have been an arrested person

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I'm really interested in your take on this shooting due to you being law enforcement. Are the opinions of the other guys you work with that these Baton Rouge cops over reacted also?

[alphaman]

Emotions is the cause this shooting I say. He didn't shot him on purpose.

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[alphaman]

Over reacted and emotions are 2 different things

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[alphaman]

You still have to be able to think when under a stressful situations as a police officer. Ask a cop is ok to let your emotions take over in a critical situation.

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[Matt G]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckuUk9R5ES0

Watch the video. A the 6 second mark, the cop on top tries to grab his right hand and AS pulls it away. At that point they both seem to be wrestling near the guys right pocket when the first shot happens. The second officer is kneeling there staring blindly at what is happening. He’s basically no help to the other officer. The only good he's really doing is he has AS's left arm pinned with his knees.

Also, in the first video that came out, when the first officer goes for the takedown he grabs AS from behind and tries to slam him face down onto the ground/car. AS hits the hood of the car and rolls off landing on the ground face up. The officer attempted for a clean takedown that would have allowed him and the second officer to easily put the cuffs on him. Sadly it didn't happen that way. From my perspective, they did everything reasonably possible to subdue him. He fought them and lost.

[Matt G]

Originally Posted by alphaman

OK. So your saying 2 trained officers cant grab 1 mans arms that's laying on his back? 1 person obviously kneeling on one arm and the other on top of chest area.

Let's roll play these scenarios so you can see how that possible and not possible to reach in your pocket with 2 200lb people on you.

Fellas I'm looking at this from an officer point of view

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I'll roll play. Even if I don't make it into my pocket, it could still be fun.

See above post....... They tried. He was Hell bent on not complying and their takedown didn't work like it does in class.

I'm looking at this entire thing objectively and I see a guy who thought he could fight his way out of an arrest.

[alphaman]

33 year vet told he what I told you all his emotion f k him in this case.
As a cop once you emotions take over. your no good
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[Top Dawg]

Not to mention they tazed him first with no effects.

[alphaman]

You all have fun debating I'm out. Lol

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