Answering the Libertarian argument for drug legalization

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by "W"

Bottom line if i catch my child smoking weed!! Have mercy on her soul!!!

If I catch my kid doing anything illegal...underage drinking, smoking weed, etc. thats his butt

[hawgsquatch]

The best thing in the world that could happen in my community would be to legalize marijuana and deregulate the whole thing. My question is where do we draw the line? There are heroin activists and probably even meth activists (you can tell by the cool neck tats). So at what point is an addictive substance acceptable? We have caffeine alcohol and chocolate. What is the limit?

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by "W"

Bottom line if i catch my child smoking weed!! Have mercy on her soul!!!

What you gonna do, Beat her (someone will call CPS ------> off W goes to jail)

Yell at her.... (If she's rebellious enough to smoke in the first place i bet that will work)

Call the cops.. wooops... might not wanna do that one... it will get you a parent of the year nomination... you do that she become's a registered drug offender, goodbye realistic chance of career, good life, kids, etc... basically she's gonna have to fend for herself 100% because no one, is gonna give her a hand up. But i did hear that Mcdonald's put out a pamphlet on how you can survive on minimum wage. Maybe she can stay with daddy the rest of her life... ?? that might work.

Heck if she smokes it in todays environment, she will have to buy it from a dealer. Heck he might even give her a little sample of something a little better. Who know's how far she can go.

If weed were legalized, regulated, and controlled appropriately. It's very likely there would not be enough money in underage sales to justify an organized crime dealer being involved. Might just save your girls life bruh.

[Goooh]

Originally Posted by hawgsquatch

The best thing in the world that could happen in my community would be to legalize marijuana and deregulate the whole thing. My question is where do we draw the line? There are heroin activists and probably even meth activists (you can tell by the cool neck tats). So at what point is an addictive substance acceptable? We have caffeine alcohol and chocolate. What is the limit?

How about something that grows naturally and requires no processing?

Something that has grown naturally for thousands of years on every continent except Antarctica.

Something that cannot be overdosed on.

Sounds like it would be on the acceptable side of the line by a long shot, and alcohol may be on, or crossing over to the negative side of the line.

How's that sound?

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by hawgsquatch

The best thing in the world that could happen in my community would be to legalize marijuana and deregulate the whole thing. My question is where do we draw the line? There are heroin activists and probably even meth activists (you can tell by the cool neck tats). So at what point is an addictive substance acceptable? We have caffeine alcohol and chocolate. What is the limit?

I'm starting to think you might enjoy a little bit of our Saltycajun Drama.

People that want to kill themselves will. Truth is if you look at cases like portugal, there will always be hardcore abuse, but post legalization the amount of the hard and soft abuse went down. Why... simply because the systemic issues were addressed. Getting tough on drugs got them to almost 10% of there society addicted. Decriminalization of everything has dropped the abuse rates there dramatically... check on page 1,2 or 3... i linked studies conducted in portugal and netherlands.

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by Duck Butter

If I catch my kid doing anything illegal...underage drinking, smoking weed, etc. thats his butt

Of course... that's a given, any of us on here don't want anything but the best for their kids.

And since we have greater life experience and know the tragedies that can happen from drug use.... well we tend to get a little protective.

You know i have 2 adult age children, that we went through all these battles on. I have no doubt that there was some level of experimentation with things on their part. You know you have succeeded in raising a man or a woman, when they were willing to discuss things with you that they knew you would disapprove of.

Both have done very well in their lives, Our son is in the Airforce, Our daughter is doing well in an accounting office.

My wife and I enjoyed the experience so much that we Adopted a little boy who was a distant family member (yeah his biological mom is a addict and abandoned him in the hospital) 4 years after adopting him we found out she had another child that was abandoned as well (we just finished the adoption process on her)

Both were drug exposed at birth, and by the way some of you guys talk on here I should just go ahead and hang em out to dry. They done got the devil in em... might as well send em up the river.

But i am not gonna do that. Whatever it takes i am going to be there for them, whether they make a good choice or a very bad one. I am the father. It's what i do. And i will NOT fail in raising them well.

[Goooh]

Originally Posted by "W"

Your own words said these teenage girls were doing nothing wrong?? You rather them smoke weed than meth or beer??

So you see no problem with teenagers smoking weed from your own words

W, do you want your teenage girl having sex? Is underage sex legal, or should it be made illegal?

Did you ever drink alcohol when you were underage? How bout drink and go looking for some tail? One is legal, one is not, both can ruin lives - lets apply the 3 strike rule to these things too. Better yet, underage drinking or pre marital sex yield a minimum 15yr sentence. Getting hammered underage AND getting some gut at the same time should be mandatory life sentence.

Makes tons of "scents", right?

[hawgsquatch]

Originally Posted by AceArcher

I'm starting to think you might enjoy a little bit of our Saltycajun Drama.

People that want to kill themselves will. Truth is if you look at cases like portugal, there will always be hardcore abuse, but post legalization the amount of the hard and soft abuse went down. Why... simply because the systemic issues were addressed. Getting tough on drugs go them to almost 10% of there society addicted. Decriminalization of every has dropped the abuse rates there dramatically... check on page 1,2 or 3... i linked studies conducted in portugal and netherlands.

Did you see my little drug registrant rant...That is a dramatization of the system in Germany. The problem I have with using the Germans or the Dutch system is those problems they had a while back.....six million of them.

I am loving this drama. I am going to hop back and forth across this fence just to see who smoked out today and can't tell the difference or who reads the first line of a post and then freaks out.

Seriously, my community has been destroyed by illegal weed and the meth and heroin that come with wanting to double up on the profits. We have weekly murders and home invasion robberies in a town where the biggest problem used to be poaching deer on the golf course. This is because weed is worth so much and that is because it is illegal.

I would legalize it simply to take the money out of it and raise my children to hate anything that captures one so.

I don't buy the BS about it being beneficial or a miracle cure because that is just addicts trying to legitimize their poison. Alcoholics claim they get benefit from their drugs too.

Addiction is defined as doing something that you know can or will harm you. If you insist on smoking weed when it very well might cost you a job or take you away from your family, you are an addict.

Poking out my eyes with a flaming rhinoceros horn is bad. Does that mean that poking out my eyes with a nice clean new needle is good? Quit justifying your craving and just vote about it, and admit your addiction honestly.

Why does reality suck so bad we want to create an alternative? Maybe we should create a better reality, lets start by reducing government.

anybody catching any fish.........?

[Montauk17]

Originally Posted by Goooh

W, do you want your teenage girl having sex? Is underage sex legal, or should it be made illegal?

Did you ever drink alcohol when you were underage? How bout drink and go looking for some tail? One is legal, one is not, both can ruin lives - lets apply the 3 strike rule to these things too. Better yet, underage drinking or pre marital sex yield a minimum 15yr sentence. Getting hammered underage AND getting some gut at the same time should be mandatory life sentence.

Makes tons of "scents", right?

I think you just made w's head spin.

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by hawgsquatch

Did you see my little drug registrant rant...That is a dramatization of the system in Germany. The problem I have with using the Germans or the Dutch system is those problems they had a while back.....six million of them.

I am loving this drama. I am going to hop back and forth across this fence just to see who smoked out today and can't tell the difference or who reads the first line of a post and then freaks out.

Seriously, my community has been destroyed by illegal weed and the meth and heroin that come with wanting to double up on the profits. We have weekly murders and home invasion robberies in a town where the biggest problem used to be poaching deer on the golf course. This is because weed is worth so much and that is because it is illegal.

I would legalize it simply to take the money out of it and raise my children to hate anything that captures one so.

I don't buy the BS about it being beneficial or a miracle cure because that is just addicts trying to legitimize their poison. Alcoholics claim they get benefit from their drugs too.

Addiction is defined as doing something that you know can or will harm you. If you insist on smoking weed when it very well might cost you a job or take you away from your family, you are an addict.

Poking out my eyes with a flaming rhinoceros horn is bad. Does that mean that poking out my eyes with a nice clean new needle is good? Quit justifying your craving and just vote about it, and admit your addiction honestly.

Why does reality suck so bad we want to create an alternative? Maybe we should create a better reality, lets start by reducing government.

anybody catching any fish.........?

Easy there Hawg... someone is going to accuse you of rational thinking any second.

Realistically your right on the money.. the more you criminalize something that people do to thier own body. Then the more negative impacts there are going to be to everything.

I hope your wrong about there not being pharmacological value to the cannabis plant. I will leave it at I have some hope in some of the studies that i linked earlier (again in the page 1-4 or so range) (the british, israeli studies, the information about sativex (or whatever its called) and the video by gupta)

Perhaps these results might come to late to help my mom... but maybe they will help people in the future suffering from brain disease's like alzheimers.

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by Montauk17

I think you just made w's head spin.

I doubt it...

Didn't you know that "W" is a saint? The pope was supposed to cannonize him
next Thursday. Fortunately they called that off when they realized that W is still alive, and therefore cannot legitimately be called a Saint yet.

I heard in a news clip that the pope's excuse was he thought W was so saintly that he didn't even need to be dead to be a saint.

I think we really dodged a bullet here... could you imagine how full of himself W would be if he were to be cannonized and made a saint.

Saint Speckled Troutus... that was to be his name.

or was it Saint Bruh....

[Goooh]

Originally Posted by hawgsquatch

Did you see my little drug registrant rant...That is a dramatization of the system in Germany. The problem I have with using the Germans or the Dutch system is those problems they had a while back.....six million of them.

I am loving this drama. I am going to hop back and forth across this fence just to see who smoked out today and can't tell the difference or who reads the first line of a post and then freaks out.

Seriously, my community has been destroyed by illegal weed and the meth and heroin that come with wanting to double up on the profits. We have weekly murders and home invasion robberies in a town where the biggest problem used to be poaching deer on the golf course. This is because weed is worth so much and that is because it is illegal.

I would legalize it simply to take the money out of it and raise my children to hate anything that captures one so.

I don't buy the BS about it being beneficial or a miracle cure because that is just addicts trying to legitimize their poison. Alcoholics claim they get benefit from their drugs too.

Addiction is defined as doing something that you know can or will harm you. If you insist on smoking weed when it very well might cost you a job or take you away from your family, you are an addict.

Poking out my eyes with a flaming rhinoceros horn is bad. Does that mean that poking out my eyes with a nice clean new needle is good? Quit justifying your craving and just vote about it, and admit your addiction honestly.

Why does reality suck so bad we want to create an alternative? Maybe we should create a better reality, lets start by reducing government.

anybody catching any fish.........?

This is not the definition of addiction, you can't just state something false and claim it as fact.

You are right, poking your eyes out is bad no matte the object used to do so. But, does it warrant being criminalized? Again, the choice should be up to the person, and if they are dumb enough to do anything to the point that it negatively impacts their career or family, then they will have to live with the consequences.

On the subject of employers (not in your post), they should and do have the right to restrict employees from doing anything that they see unsafe or unfit - this is done now, there are companies that don't allow red bull and pre workout drinks on premises, or to be consumed at or before work. Legalizing pot and regulating it would be no different, it's up to the companies and industries to make their own decisions, just like its up to the employee to comply or go work somewhere else.

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by Goooh

This is not the definition of addiction, you can't just state something false and claim it as fact.

You are right, poking your eyes out is bad no matte the object used to do so. But, does it warrant being criminalized? Again, the choice should be up to the person, and if they are dumb enough to do anything to the point that it negatively impacts their career or family, then they will have to live with the consequences.

On the subject of employers (not in your post), they should and do have the right to restrict employees from doing anything that they see unsafe or unfit - this is done now, there are companies that don't allow red bull and pre workout drinks on premises, or to be consumed at or before work. Legalizing pot and regulating it would be no different, it's up to the companies and industries to make their own decisions, just like its up to the employee to comply or go work somewhere else.

yep

some places don't allow you to have a beard as your mask will not fit correctly

Oh the horror! This is a free country, I should be able to do what I please They are restricting my liberties that amendment X protects

[Clampy]

I see where all they true libertarians stand and I have to say I'm quite impressed. I like math geek thought this thread was going to go a different way.

[mriguy]

I'm not going to make a public statement as to which side of this argument I am on. Let's just say it is the side of realism and sanity.

I just cant figure out why the Federal government is even involved.

Obviously it should be left up to the individual states.

The ONLY things the Fed government should provide to its citizens are a national defense and interstate commerce regulation. My .02

Carry on

[Clampy]

Originally Posted by hawgsquatch

The best thing in the world that could happen in my community would be to legalize marijuana and deregulate the whole thing. My question is where do we draw the line? There are heroin activists and probably even meth activists (you can tell by the cool neck tats). So at what point is an addictive substance acceptable? We have caffeine alcohol and chocolate. What is the limit?

Yeah. Every one has heard of NORML or the
National Organization for the Reform of Meth Laws.
Watch out for those meth activists.

[Duck Butter]

[Montauk17]

LOL

[Clampy]

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1376873270.483812.jpg

[MissSmallAimsSmall]

"If there is a relationship between cannabis and other illicit drug use, we have to explain it. The two main explanations that feature in the public debate are: (1) that cannabis users are more likely to use other illicit drugs because of the pharmacological and other effects that cannabis has; and (2) that cannabis users are more likely to use other illicit drugs because the same black market supplies cannabis and other illicit drugs, so cannabis users are more likely to have access to other illicit drugs.

There is abundant evidence from surveys of adolescent drug use in the United States and elsewhere that cannabis use and the use of cocaine and heroin are associated (7). From the late 1970s to the 1990s in the United States, there was a strong relationship between regular cannabis use and the later use of heroin and cocaine. Kandel (8), for example, found that only 7% of American adolescents who had not used cannabis reported using another illicit drug. By contrast, 33% of those who reported using cannabis had used another illicit drug. Most (84%) daily cannabis users had done so and they had also used many more types of illicit drugs than their peers who had not used cannabis or who were not daily users of cannabis (8).

Almost all adolescents who have tried cocaine and heroin, had used alcohol, tobacco and cannabis in that order (10). Those who began to use alcohol and tobacco at an early age, and those became regular smokers and drinkers, were the ones who were most likely to use cannabis. In turn, it was cannabis users who began use at an early age who were the most likely to become regular cannabis users and the most likely to use hallucinogens, amphetamines and tranquillizers. The heaviest users of these drugs were, in turn, more likely to use cocaine and heroin."- The Health and Psychological effects of Cannabis Use