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  #141  
Old 06-04-2012, 06:10 AM
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Looks like someone already headed to banned camp, not who I thought it was going to be though. Anyway I feel like W could be fighting a loosing battle but he seems willing to fight for what he believes in. to me it seems like some valid points are being made. I can't catch a limit every trip, I am one of those guys. But still I enjoy being on the water as much as all you guys.
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  #142  
Old 06-04-2012, 06:10 AM
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And there you have it.
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  #143  
Old 06-04-2012, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jdm4x43732 View Post
Looks like someone already headed to banned camp, not who I thought it was going to be though. Anyway I feel like W could be fighting a loosing battle but he seems willing to fight for what he believes in. to me it seems like some valid points are being made. I can't catch a limit every trip, I am one of those guys. But still I enjoy being on the water as much as all you guys.

No sure why he was ban....I hope it was not just because of his response...because it was true..

The guy made a great point and I hope he was not ban for that
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  #144  
Old 06-04-2012, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by MathGeek View Post
Interestingly, Louisiana recently adopted (in 2006) a spatially-explicit management plan for Calcasieu Lake. The premise of this management decision, which included a reduction in daily bag limits and imposition of a slot limit, was to ‘preserve’ the renowned trophy-fishery for spotted seatrout in Calcasieu Lake. However, the decision to enact this regulation was based exclusively on socio-economic factors, rather than the biological status of the subpopulation. In fact, no formal stock assessment was conducted as part of the decision-making process. Thus, the status of the subpopulation (stock) was largely unknown (i.e., overfished or not?) at the time regulations were changed. While perhaps setting a bad precedent for fisheries management (i.e., making a decision based purely on socioeconomic reasons), this situation affords a unique opportunity to evaluate the response of spotted seatrout to a spatially-explicit (estuarine-scale) regulations change (i.e., adaptive management, sensu Hilborn and Walters 1992).

from Callihan PhD thesis LSU 2011 p. 182



Socioeconomics= a very small group of people who are office fisherman, who spend less than 30 days a year on our waters but think they have the right to change the whole ecosystem
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  #145  
Old 06-04-2012, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by MathGeek View Post
Interestingly, Louisiana recently adopted (in 2006) a spatially-explicit management plan for Calcasieu Lake. The premise of this management decision, which included a reduction in daily bag limits and imposition of a slot limit, was to ‘preserve’ the renowned trophy-fishery for spotted seatrout in Calcasieu Lake. However, the decision to enact this regulation was based exclusively on socio-economic factors, rather than the biological status of the subpopulation. In fact, no formal stock assessment was conducted as part of the decision-making process. Thus, the status of the subpopulation (stock) was largely unknown (i.e., overfished or not?) at the time regulations were changed. While perhaps setting a bad precedent for fisheries management (i.e., making a decision based purely on socioeconomic reasons), this situation affords a unique opportunity to evaluate the response of spotted seatrout to a spatially-explicit (estuarine-scale) regulations change (i.e., adaptive management, sensu Hilborn and Walters 1992).

from Callihan PhD thesis LSU 2011 p. 182
Good find, thanks.
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  #146  
Old 06-04-2012, 07:38 AM
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This thread was going in the right direction, without personal attacks which is all that I asked, thank you.

As far as the banned issue, if you really want to know send me a PM (I may answer you and I may not, really it is not your concern) and stop questioning me in the open area or you can ALL join him. Go back through the thread and you will see there was a deleted post. That deleted post and what he said to me and about me is what got him banned. Then he followed up with multiple emails telling me his "feelings" about me. So yes he is gone. Salty so the post before I deleted it, if you want to PM him and he feels like responding then you can.

What I have learned is that most of you do not respect or appreciate me. I never wanted to spend as much time dealing with this site as I now have to spend. Yesterday when this mess started it caused me to be two hours late getting my family home. In short, I have had enough. I put my own money into keeping this site running and more time in this "project" than any of you can imagine. I did not deserve the first post that this person came after me about but then the second was way across the line. At the end of the day, SaltyCajun is a hobby and a hobby I am very tired of right now. I will ban anyone that does not respect me on my own bandwidth that I pay for. Think of it as being at work, you may like the boss but if you tell him to go XXXX himself then you’re gone.

Change this back towards the topic or I will lock the thread. I have to get real work done today which does not include babysitting all of you.

Which again for the record, I was not even fishing the big lake area when the limit changed, I was still fishing in Grand Isle at the time. I will support whatever the science shows once that work is done. 15 v/s 25 is not something that bothers me right now so don't think for one second I have a real opinion on it. I want there to be a great fishery for my grandchildren one day and support whatever that requires.

Signed, your office fishermen
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  #147  
Old 06-04-2012, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ckinchen View Post
This thread was going in the right direction, without personal attacks which is all that I asked, thank you.

As far as the banned issue, if you really want to know send me a PM (I may answer you and I may not, really it is not your concern) and stop questioning me in the open area or you can ALL join him. Go back through the thread and you will see there was a deleted post. That deleted post and what he said to me and about me is what got him banned. Then he followed up with multiple emails telling me his "feelings" about me. So yes he is gone. Salty so the post before I deleted it, if you want to PM him and he feels like responding then you can.

What I have learned is that most of you do not respect or appreciate me. I never wanted to spend as much time dealing with this site as I now have to spend. Yesterday when this mess started it caused me to be two hours late getting my family home. In short, I have had enough. I put my own money into keeping this site running and more time in this "project" than any of you can imagine. I did not deserve the first post that this person came after me about but then the second was way across the line. At the end of the day, SaltyCajun is a hobby and a hobby I am very tired of right now. I will ban anyone that does not respect me on my own bandwidth that I pay for. Think of it as being at work, you may like the boss but if you tell him to go XXXX himself then you’re gone.

Change this back towards the topic or I will lock the thread. I have to get real work done today which does not include babysitting all of you.

Signed, your office fishermen.
I told my boss to go XXXX himself before it felt great, I'm still with the company.
As for respect towards you, we all have it Casey I understand why you get upset and rambunctious at times but don't think for one minute none of us do not respect you and what you have done with this site for one minute.
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  #148  
Old 06-04-2012, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by SaltyShaw View Post
I told my boss to go XXXX himself before it felt great, I'm still with the company.
As for respect towards you, we all have it Casey I understand why you get upset and rambunctious at times but don't think for one minute none of us do not respect you and what you have done with this site for one minute.
Thank you Kade. Good for you on the boss situation, lol...
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  #149  
Old 06-04-2012, 07:56 AM
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I can see it now...fish off coming soon.....
ClubW vs Office Fisherman....lol
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  #150  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:01 AM
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Jmo.....i think if you want this changed back to 25 you are going to have all ducks in a row that will prove why it needs to be changed....arguements wont do it and making valid points here wont do it...going way up the ladder with CONNECTIONS is where its gonna have to start....word of mouth is not gonna get it...proof to your connections will make it when your connection can grab the attention of upper personel that matter will make it happen if you keep persuing the change....jmo....good day mates.........
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  #151  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:05 AM
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Is the limit a Commision ruling or was it changed legislatively?
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  #152  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by all star rod View Post
I can see it now...fish off coming soon.....
ClubW vs Office Fisherman....lol
You don't want that woman.....
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  #153  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:22 AM
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This topic no matter what happens needs to be talked about...and I agree no attacks on people ..

We will win this fight
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  #154  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:36 AM
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  #155  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckinchen View Post
This thread was going in the right direction, without personal attacks which is all that I asked, thank you.

As far as the banned issue, if you really want to know send me a PM (I may answer you and I may not, really it is not your concern) and stop questioning me in the open area or you can ALL join him. Go back through the thread and you will see there was a deleted post. That deleted post and what he said to me and about me is what got him banned. Then he followed up with multiple emails telling me his "feelings" about me. So yes he is gone. Salty so the post before I deleted it, if you want to PM him and he feels like responding then you can.

What I have learned is that most of you do not respect or appreciate me. I never wanted to spend as much time dealing with this site as I now have to spend. Yesterday when this mess started it caused me to be two hours late getting my family home. In short, I have had enough. I put my own money into keeping this site running and more time in this "project" than any of you can imagine. I did not deserve the first post that this person came after me about but then the second was way across the line. At the end of the day, SaltyCajun is a hobby and a hobby I am very tired of right now. I will ban anyone that does not respect me on my own bandwidth that I pay for. Think of it as being at work, you may like the boss but if you tell him to go XXXX himself then you’re gone.

Change this back towards the topic or I will lock the thread. I have to get real work done today which does not include babysitting all of you.

Which again for the record, I was not even fishing the big lake area when the limit changed, I was still fishing in Grand Isle at the time. I will support whatever the science shows once that work is done. 15 v/s 25 is not something that bothers me right now so don't think for one second I have a real opinion on it. I want there to be a great fishery for my grandchildren one day and support whatever that requires.

Signed, your office fishermen
Casey this is just my opinion. I think you and the moderators overall do an excellent job. You have ONE yahoo that likes to cause trouble and push the envelope. That person likes to see almost on a daily bases how far he can push things with out getting banned. It would be ashame that a great site would be sold or done away with because of one person who can't act like a civilized individual. I hope it doesn't come down to that. I think what you have done with the site is awesome. Speaking for myself even though I may not always agree with you I'll respect you as the owner of this site as you should be. That's my $.02. Take care of the problem and your job will be easier.


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  #156  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:45 AM
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Under Pressure

Crowds don’t have to limit your success at Calcasieu Lake.

By Chris Ginn
May 01 at 4:43 pm

Chris Ginn Capt. Jeff Poe believes that while the pressure has increased at Calcasieu Lake, better knowledge of the lake has allowed pressure on specific spots to decrease.
This is my son’s first year of playing kid-pitch baseball.

After looking like an all-star in the batting cages during his first practice, he stood on deck and watched the batter before him take a hardball to the lower back in his team’s first attempt to hit off of an inconsistent 9-year-old pitcher.

Wide-eyed, he took his turn at the plate and bailed out on the first pitch. His second swing was more of a step-out-slap-swing defensive maneuver even though the ball was a strike right over the plate.
Realizing that he was nervous about getting beaned with the baseball, I encouraged him to stand tall in the batter’s box and to not make more out of the batter in front of him getting hit than it was.
"It’s only a big deal if you make it a big deal," I told him. "Just because he got hit, that doesn’t mean you’re going to get hit.
"The bigger deal you make of it, the less likely you are to hit his next pitch."
I wish I could report that he crushed it over the centerfield fence on the next pitch, but he didn’t. He didn’t even hit the ball. But he didn’t bail out. He took a good cut. And he didn’t let what happened to somebody else affect his third swing.
A lot has been made of the fishing pressure at Calcasieu Lake in the last few years, but according to Big Lake Guide Service owner Jeff Poe (337-598-3268), anglers often make more of a big deal out of the pressure than they should.
"And that can take them out of the game before they even launch their boats," he insisted.
Poe feels like the perception of increased fishing pressure at Calcasieu Lake has more to do with the decrease of common courtesy than it does with the number of boats on the lake.
In fact, he’s noticed in the last few years that there has been an overall decrease in fishing pressure...
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  #157  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:51 AM
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CALCASIEU LAKE
When it comes to speckled trout, one lake stands out for consistently producing trophies over several decades. Known locally as Big Lake, Calcasieu Lake south of Lake Charles measures 12 miles long by nine miles wide and covers about 52,700 acres. Surrounded by marshes and studded with oyster reefs, the lake averages less than 6 feet deep, but looms large in the world of speckled trout angling.
Calcasieu Lake produced three of the top 10 trout caught in Louisiana and routinely gives up fish in the 5- to 8-pound range, with an occasional 9- to 11-pounder. Tim Mahoney set the official lake record on May 5, 2002, with an 11.16-pounder that currently holds fourth place on the state list.
Anglers sometimes catch bigger trout, but never submit the paperwork or officially weigh the fish before releasing it. On May 21, 2000, Stuart Roy caught and released a 32-inch trout with a 17-inch girth. A state biologist estimated that the fish possibly weighed between 12 1/2 and 13 pounds.
To keep more big fish in the estuary, the state lowered the daily creel limit on speckled trout in Calcasieu Lake and other waters in southwestern Louisiana from 25 to 15 per day. Anglers can keep no more than two trout 25 inches or longer per day. Many anglers who fish the lake already release larger fish to keep the estuary healthy.
“Calcasieu Lake still produces some big trout, but not like it did seven or eight years ago,” advised Capt. Erik Rue. We’ve caught some over 8 pounds in the past couple years on my boat, but nothing over 9 pounds in that time. “May is typically one of the key times to catch big trout in Calcasieu Lake. In the summer of 2010, fishing was consistent, but never red hot.”
A deeper, wider and straighter version of the old Calcasieu River course, the Calcasieu Ship Channel cuts a swath 40 miles long, 400 feet wide and 40 feet deep from the Port of Lake Charles to the Gulf of Mexico. The ship channel enters Calcasieu Lake at Turner’s Bay on the north end. Farther south, several openings connect the channel to the lake, allowing tides to bring in baitfish and game fish from the nearby Gulf.
These cuts serve as choke points, concentrating fish waiting to attack anything entering the system. Several excellent places to look for trout are the Washout, Nine-Mile Cut, and nearby Long Point. Anglers may also try Commissary Point, the old rock jetties in the southern part of the lake and marshy drains along the southern and eastern shorelines.
At the southwest corner, West Cove extends across the channel. The shallow bay filled with oyster reefs averages about three feet deep. Many people fish Cross Reef, Juniors Cut at the south entrance to the cove and around Rabbit Island.
“The shallow areas with oyster reefs on the southern end of the lake and the flats where baitfish accumulate are always good areas to look for big trout,” Rue advised. “Go where the bait is. Look for big wads of mullet. That’s where the big trout will be.”
South of Calcasieu Lake, the ship channel flows through a marshy area until it hits the Gulf at Calcasieu Pass. Two mile-long rows of rock jetties line Calcasieu Pass, creating a magnet for big fish. As the summer progresses, big trout often move from the estuary into cooler Gulf waters. Anglers can catch them near the jetties, under several oil platforms and along the Cameron Parish beaches.
In September 2005, Hurricane Rita churned right up the Calcasieu Estuary, devastating southwest Louisiana. For months, the estuary received very little fishing pressure as people rebuilt their lives.
“Right after Hurricane Rita, the storm surge opened up a lot of impounded marsh,” Rue recalled. “That doubled the habitat for production of baitfish, shrimp and other creatures. Right after Hurricane Rita, fishing went through the roof. Since the storm, we haven’t had a time when the fish was really slow except during periods of bad weather. The biggest change since the hurricane is the redfish population in the lake. Now, it’s astounding how many reds are in the lake.”
Many people fish the reefs and cuts with jigheads tipped in soft plastics or use live bait under popping corks. In the summer, look for diving birds that might indicate feeding fish. As trout herd shrimp, mullets and menhaden to the surface, birds dive on them.
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  #158  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by clay67 View Post
I find it interesting that no one has mentioned the fact that the lake is no longer fished commercially. I'm sure most people that have been around awhile know what kind of numbers used to be taken out of that lake.
I talked to my uncle Sat about this. He has been fishing lake 30+ years he even said something about the ban of gill nets and the amount of fish that was taking out the lake with them. And I did think gill netting needed to stop I'm just saying!
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  #159  
Old 06-04-2012, 09:01 AM
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Thanks moderators and point proven. Keep up the good work.


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  #160  
Old 06-04-2012, 09:04 AM
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State could lower speckled trout limit
By John N. Felsher
Several anglers contacted Henry Mouton, a member of the Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Commission from Lafayette, La., asking him to submit a regulation reducing the trout limit in the Calcasieu Estuary south of Lake Charles, La.
Mouton said he may submit a recommendation to the LWFC in July 2005 after he heard what the members of the Lake Charles chapter of the Coastal Conservation Association wanted to do. The members debated several options, including reducing the limit to 15, 12 or 10 specks per day.
“I can remember counting fish by the number of 150-quart ice chests we filled,” Mouton said. “Now, if we can fill half an ice chest, we’ve had a great day. I think we need to take a hard look at this. Let’s do something on the proactive mode. If we leave more fish in the water, we’ll produce more fish. That can’t be bad.”
If the resolution passes, it will probably apply only from the Mermentau River to the Texas state line. However, it could extend to other parts of the state in the future. Mouton said that he heard from people in other parts of the state who also want to reduce the limit.
“Just a couple years ago, it was almost inconceivable to talk about reducing the trout limit in southeastern Louisiana,” he said. “Now, there’s more traction for a statewide reduction. If we do Calcasieu Lake now, it might take another year or two to do the rest of the state. The feedback that I’m hearing is running 100 to 1 in favor of reducing the limit.”
Biological observations
Biologists don’t see a problem with the trout population in Calcasieu Lake. They said that anglers might catch fewer specks because fish simply don’t bite occasionally or they move to find better food, temperatures or water conditions.
“The speckled trout population in the Calcasieu Estuary is healthy,” said Mike Harbison, a biologist with the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries in Lake Charles. “I don’t see a biological need to change the limit. We are finding fish in our sampling. If something is not broken, why fix it?”
Trout spawn from April through September with the peak in June, Harbison said. A speck reaches sexual maturity after one year. One large trout can produce 1.65 million eggs in a spawning season.
A trout may live 13 years, but most die before they live one year. More than 90 percent of trout die before they live four years. About four percent reach 25 inches long. One percent reaches 26 inches. Natural mortality from predators or other environmental factors take 66 percent of the trout regardless of fishing pressure. If the state banned fishing entirely, that percentage will not change, Harbison said.
“If we dropped the limit to 15 fish per day, we’ll only save about 14 percent of the fish caught now,” Harbison said. “If we go down to 10 fish per day, we’ll save about 29 percent of the fish now caught and kept. To make any significant changes, we’ll have to go to eight fish per day or less.”
Too much pressure
Human activity can certainly make fish more difficult to catch. Some people claim that the estuary produces the same amount of fish, but more anglers divide the pie into smaller pieces for each one.
Mary and Jeff Poe of Big Lake Guide Service support lowering the daily limit to 15, but only if the change occurs statewide. They feel that only reducing the limit in southwest Louisiana would send their customers eastward where they could still catch 25 trout per person.
“Jeff and I are opposed to any changes in the limits not recommended by the LDWF,” Mary said. “The department has trained professional fisheries biologists. We think that it would behoove everyone to listen to what they say. They say -- and we believe -- that Calcasieu Lake is very productive and will continue to be for many years.”
However, the Poes did acknowledge problems from too much pressure. As president of the Louisiana Charter Boat Association, Mary estimated that more than 100 licensed guides operate regularly in Calcasieu Lake. That does not include guides who legally come from Texas to fish in Louisiana or self-proclaimed, unlicensed guides who operate illegally. She said that about 30 to 40 licensed guides, more on weekends, fish Calcasieu Lake on any given day.
“The problem with Calcasieu Lake is not a lack of fish, but too much pressure,” Mary explained. “We’ve seen a large increase in the number of boats fishing the lake, both recreational and charter boats. The constant running of outboard motors scatters fish and closes their mouths. We’ve seen people fishing with live bait catch too many undersize fish without thinking of moving to find larger fish. We’ve seen an increase in night fishing from both boats and docks. The fish never get a rest.”
Trophy status
On the other side of Calcasieu Lake, Kirk Stansel of Hackberry Rod and Gun Club wants the lake granted “trophy status.” He also supports a 15-fish daily creel and wants to see the minimum size raised to 14 inches to give fish one more chance to spawn before hitting an ice chest.
“I’d like to see the lake declared ‘the trophy estuary of the Gulf Coast,’” he said. “Everyone wants to catch a limit of fish, but the majority of people who come here from other areas want to catch a big trout, not fill their freezers. If we lower the limit and the rest of the state keeps the 25-fish limit, that will hurt our business some, but if we lose our fish, we won’t have any business at all. If the lake is declared a trophy lake, that might even increase our clientele.”
Stansel said his club fishes about 10 boats per day, each with a guide and one to three anglers. They can expand to 20 boats if necessary. Their boats catch a three-person limit of 75 trout about three to five percent of the time or less.
Too many weirs
Besides fishing pressure, Stansel blames weirs blocking tributaries from entering Calcasieu Lake. Shrimp, crabs, baitfish, specks, redfish and other creatures grow up hiding among marsh reeds to avoid predators. Although “flap gates” allow some water and organisms to flow in and out of the marshes, weirs make such movement far more difficult.
“Weirs choked the life out of Calcasieu Lake,” he said. “Those tributaries feed this lake. More shrimp, crabs and baitfish used to flow in and out of those marshes. Block off those tributaries and that takes the bait out of the estuary. Trout need to eat.”
Technological advances
Technological advances also contribute to people finding and catching more fish. Now, most anglers carry cell phones or radios on their boats. If one person finds fish, he or she calls friends or fellow guides. Within minutes, a flotilla of boats may surround the school of fish.
With bigger boats, people can carry more equipment. Global positioning systems can pinpoint reefs. Giant outboard motors pushing boats in excess of 60 miles per hour allow people to reach any part of the estuary quickly.
More studies needed
Will Drost, an avid angler and Lake Charles businessman, supports lowering the limit to 15 trout per day. He actually prefers 10 per day, but believes more people would support a 15-fish limit. However, he wants to see more scientific studies conducted in the estuary.
“The Calcasieu Estuary is different from the rest of the state,” Drost said. “It should be managed differently. I believe that the data the state uses has become outdated. I don’t think the LDWF has the money to do a comprehensive study, but we don’t have the time to wait.”
What others want
In a survey conducted by Hackberry Rod and Gun Club, anglers voted overwhelmingly to reduce the trout limit. More than 84 percent of the respondents supported dropping the limit from 25 specks per day to 15 per day.
About 66 percent listed catching a 25-fish limit as “not very important” to them. About 85 percent supported raising the minimum size limit from 12 inches to 14 inches. Nearly 90 percent supported keeping only one trout per day over 25 inches instead of the two allowed now.
About 87 percent of the people from outside the area reported that changing the limit to 15 fish per day would not affect their desire to fish in Calcasieu Lake. About 88 percent also supported designating Calcasieu Lake as a “trophy” trout lake and supported managing the lake for bigger fish.
About 67 percent of the people who responded to the HRGC survey lived in Texas. In a survey I conducted of some Louisiana anglers, the results mirrored the other survey. The overwhelming majority supported dropping the daily creel to at least 15 trout with some people preferring a 10-fish limit.
Here are some random comments from my survey:
- “I almost never catch my limit. If I did, I probably wouldn’t keep 25 fish because that is too many to eat. I want to see the statewide limit reduced to 10 per day with a minimum of 14 inches.”
- “I realize that our economy benefits from Texas anglers visiting Calcasieu Lake. If we had similar regulations, maybe some of the ‘meathog’ pressure would ease up. Keep a few. Don’t try to feed the neighborhood.”
- “I do not feel that the limit should be changed, but I do not feel that changing the size requirement from 12 to 14 inches would be a big problem with most people. There are quite a few people like myself that may only get a chance to fish once or twice a month, so reducing the limit would be very disappointing. There are many days when we only get a small handful of fish.”
- “I fish in the Calcasieu Estuary a lot, but I don’t often catch a limit. I think the limit should be changed to 10. I don’t think guides should keep a limit on a paid trip.
- “I fish Calcasieu Lake nearly every weekend and sometimes during the week and on holidays. I agree that something should be done. In recent years, the pressure has been enormous. The fish are definitely getting larger since the netting stopped, but we need to protect numbers too. We should release all fish between 5 pounds and 8 pounds. I support a 14-inch minimum. Maybe we could give people one tag per year to let them keep a trout over 8 pounds. I think the entire state should be on the same program.”
- “Trophy status would open a whole can of worms. I’m against it. Do we really want the legislators determining fishing limits? It would be a convoluted mess. Fishing and hunting regulations are of limited impact at best. Laws only serve to keep honest people honest. The outlaws are already taking more than their limit. The answer in more enforcement.”
- “I fish four to six times a month, but I seldom catch a limit of speckled trout. I target other species equally. I’m not qualified to determine the limit. Let the biologists, not the politicians or the Coastal Conservation Association decide what’s best for the lake.”
- “The trout limit is way too liberal. Trout don’t freeze well. If people don’t eat them right away, a lot are wasted. If people are not going to eat trout in a day or two, they should practice catch and release.”
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