Answering the Libertarian argument for drug legalization

[Goooh]

Way to sum it up Southern!

[DannyI]

Actually I wish this thread would just go away, tired of seeing it.

[southern151]

Originally Posted by DannyI

Actually I wish this thread would just go away, tired of seeing it.

Well, that's easy enough to take care of...

["W"]

I see some people are still trying to say Alcohol is same as weed

Again Alcohol is legal after 21 years of age. Weed is illegal and must be purchased by a drug dealer


You can not compare the two anymore....Its like saying Gold is same a copper.....Pkease stop comparing these two. Weed is a drug that is illegal

[Montauk17]

Alcohol and tobacco are legal and people die from it everyday. Nuff said...you honestly think the people that make these laws are concerned about our health? Addiction = more product = more money.

[redaddiction]

Originally Posted by "W"

I see some people are still trying to say Alcohol is same as weed




Again Alcohol is legal after 21 years of age. Weed is illegal and must be purchased by a drug dealer


You can not compare the two anymore....Its like saying Gold is same a copper.....Pkease stop comparing these two. Weed is a drug that is illegal

Alcohol was made legal by who? The government.

Weed was made illegal by who? The government.

Do you understand that?

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by "W"

I see some people are still trying to say Alcohol is same as weed

Again Alcohol is legal after 21 years of age. Weed is illegal and must be purchased by a drug dealer


You can not compare the two anymore....Its like saying Gold is same a copper.....Pkease stop comparing these two. Weed is a drug that is illegal

And on a side note I see that other people still can't add two plus two anymore...

I don't know if you happened to notice or not.... But this discussion was started to be one discussing different viewpoints on why drugs should or should not be legalized.

It was not started to determine if you would be able to figure out if weed is currently or is not currently illegal.

On a side note, in light of that fact that you have indeed determined that weed is currently illegal in Louisiana. I would say your making good progress in your quest to develop your mind to something higher than pre-school stage.

[meaux fishing]

I generally dont jump in on stuff like this but I have seen first hand that weed can be addictive. Also that people that smoke are more likely to do other drugs. I dont care what studies y'all cite, and I dont need to answer me but I would bet at least 70-80% of people that smoke weed, have been offered and most likely taken some other form of mind altering chemical(not alcohol), at least once in their life, and not necessarily from the guy they buy their dope from. Do I believe the government should be able to tell you what to do in your own house? No, of course not, but to say there is no ill effects from smoking weed long term is false. It impairs your driving and your ability to function rationally.

[hawgsquatch]

Originally Posted by Mako19

I had a professor in college who taught ethics.
He owns his own pharamcy and has 7 college degrees.

If you took ethics at UL you know who I am talkimg about.

One chapter in this class was about drug use.
He stated that marajuana is 100% non addictive.

Unlike nicotine, alcohol, and even caffiene which have been proven to be addictive.

If it is non addictive, why are people willing to go to jail to do it?

If it is non addictive why do people pay so much for it and it is always in demand.

If it is non addictive why does it work on the pleasure centers of the brain and release dopanine the same as caffiene, alcohol, and cocaine.

We has a college professor here kill his wife, behead her, and eat part of her...what does that do to your argument. If your professors status and education makes him right about addiction, my professor makes yours a cannibal.

BTW you can't teach ethics, you have them or you don't.

[MathGeek]

The journal articles seem to conflict on whether or not cannabis is a gateway drug. It sure seemed to work that way for a number of my relatives as well as friends and acquaintances in high school. One day they are smoking a bit of pot, then down the road they are dropping out of school and impacted by the harder stuff.

Whether or not marijuana is truly a gateway drug for individual abusers, it does seem like libertarians are using it as a gateway drug in their legalization strategy: legalize cannabis now, then push for legalization of "harder" drugs later.

["W"]

Originally Posted by redaddiction

Alcohol was made legal by who? The government.

Weed was made illegal by who? The government.

Do you understand that?

Weed is only legal in some States not Federal Government

Do you understand that?? Weed is illegal in every State by Federal law

[Clampy]

Originally Posted by hawgsquatch

If it is non addictive, why are people willing to go to jail to do it?

If it is non addictive why do people pay so much for it and it is always in demand.

If it is non addictive why does it work on the pleasure centers of the brain and release dopanine the same as caffiene, alcohol, and cocaine.

We has a college professor here kill his wife, behead her, and eat part of her...what does that do to your argument. If your professors status and education makes him right about addiction, my professor makes yours a cannibal.

BTW you can't teach ethics, you have them or you don't.

1. Because people know its a silly law.

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."
Thomas Jefferson

2. It's just supply and demand. Your assuming everyone wants to get drunk.
Prohibition is what keeps the price up making all those drug dealers you hate rich.

3. Yeah. Smoking a joint and murder. Those to things are equated.

["W"]

Originally Posted by hawgsquatch

If it is non addictive, why are people willing to go to jail to do it?

If it is non addictive why do people pay so much for it and it is always in demand.

If it is non addictive why does it work on the pleasure centers of the brain and release dopanine the same as caffiene, alcohol, and cocaine.

We has a college professor here kill his wife, behead her, and eat part of her...what does that do to your argument. If your professors status and education makes him right about addiction, my professor makes yours a cannibal.

BTW you can't teach ethics, you have them or you don't.

Yea that was a stupid statement by Mako that weed is not additive..... my own brother was addicted to weed for years until he finally grew up and got help!

But I guess that USL professor was a pot head in denial

[Clampy]

Look you guys. Weed is so powerful and dangerous it even makes people who don't use it lose their minds.

Addictive

Cheeseburgers
Video games
Soda
Touching yourself
Etc.


Doesn't really matter. Marjuana isn't physically addictive but psychologically it is and so what. Fishing is addictive in those regards.

[Clampy]

I have a friend who is a loser. Doesn't smoke pot but stays inside all day plays video games , smoking cigs and drinks red bulls. No job. People tend to never want to believe that a loser could be in their family or circle. If you chose to you can be addicted to anything.
I'd wish he get some help.

[southern151]

Well, I have to say that the debate has been a good one. My closing argument will be brief.

I do not condone nor, condemn the use of weed. Personally, I don't see what's any different about it than the beer I had last night, aside from the obvious(yes, I know and, knew before it was pointed out). There are two judges in life. One is in the court of law and, the other is waiting for my final day on Earth. I'm not either one so, I won't stand on a high horse and, think I know what everyone should do.

Since religion was brought into this debate, "Let he who live without sin cast the first stone."~Somewhere in the Bible.

If you drink or smoke, you should not be pregnant. You should not attempt to fly a 747. You should not try to complete your doctorate thesis statement and, you damn sure shouldn't try to drive. If you smoke, do like me when I have a beer, sit on the back patio and, just chill out. I won't judge you for it.

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

The journal articles seem to conflict on whether or not cannabis is a gateway drug. It sure seemed to work that way for a number of my relatives as well as friends and acquaintances in high school. One day they are smoking a bit of pot, then down the road they are dropping out of school and impacted by the harder stuff.

Whether or not marijuana is truly a gateway drug for individual abusers, it does seem like libertarians are using it as a gateway drug in their legalization strategy: legalize cannabis now, then push for legalization of "harder" drugs later.

I agree that the journal articles are slightly conflicting, I view this as a natural result of attempting to "prove" that cannabis is not a gateway drug. There are always going to be associations between cannabis, alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, meth, etc. Because a human being will possibly choose to imbide / use more than one of those at a time.

However what is clearly shown, is that there is no "gateway" from one leading to the other. In point of fact based on the study on alcohol, even though it has a much higher comparative rate of association between alcohol use and various "harder" drug use. The researcher correctly goes on to define that this is still not a gateway.

Additionally, I am not the libertarian party, I happen to call myself a Libertarian, and I happen to agree with most of their viewpoints. Earlier in this discussion we discussed the results of Portugals 12 years of de-criminalizing of all drugs, I stated then that a case could be made that this would be the way to actually go. If you choose to be results oriented then it's quite easy to agree with that, basically rates of addiction for all drugs (hard, soft) have dropped dramatically. Whether this was a combination of drugs becoming "uncool" & effective repairs to how the state systemically handled abusers... I don't know.

Before legalizing / de-criminalizing hard drugs here in the states, this certainly is an area which begs of more non biased study, to find out how best to minimize their use. While we are doing that, we should also be looking at / conducting studies on the current legal abuse of various opiate based drugs. I suspect that once we stop criminalizing drug use, once we address some of the systemic issues, once we have the government / free market undercut the dealers / cartel's money base we will see the same reduction in overall drug use as Portugal has in the last 12 years.

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by "W"

Yea that was a stupid statement by Mako that weed is not additive..... my own brother was addicted to weed for years until he finally grew up and got help!

But I guess that USL professor was a pot head in denial

Weed is not addictive... This is not some scientist's / doctor's conjecture or one off study it is as you say "the Fact, Jack"

What weed is accepted to be is dependency forming. That means that when you regularly use it, you enjoy its use, and the experience of using it enough that you voluntarily want to continue doing so.

This is the exact same process that we go thru in the enjoyment / use we get from things like fishing, hunting, eating good food, eating junk food, sex, and / or anything that you regularly find enjoyment in doing.

If you were supposed to go fishing tommorrow, and you were unable to go "for whatever reason" and your fishing dependant. You would be a little bit sad, but would basically say, "well there will be another time that i can chase them trots" and then you would go on and take care of all the things that day that you needed to. Like any normal person would.

If however you had a PHYSICAL ADDICTION to fishing, upon learning of not being able to go, and as the physical addiction began causing it's chemical affects. You would become physically incapable (due to convulsions, withdrawal rage, pain etc) of doing anything else (productive or not) until either your addiction was given to you, or until withdrawals from the chemical stopped impacting your body.


In regards to your brother, I commend him for seeking help and curing his dependancy to weed. Like alcohol some people can become very dependant on it, It is however fortunate that he did not have to go thru the physical symptoms of a drug / alcohol addiction in addition to dealing with his dependancy. That would have been even worse for him. I hope he does well in the future, and if he does choose to use in the future, i hope he is able to keep it to a non regular / recreational use level.

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by hawgsquatch

If it is non addictive, why are people willing to go to jail to do it?

If it is non addictive why do people pay so much for it and it is always in demand.

If it is non addictive why does it work on the pleasure centers of the brain and release dopanine the same as caffiene, alcohol, and cocaine.

We has a college professor here kill his wife, behead her, and eat part of her...what does that do to your argument. If your professors status and education makes him right about addiction, my professor makes yours a cannibal.

BTW you can't teach ethics, you have them or you don't.

lol. you and your flip flopping..

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by AceArcher

Weed is not addictive... This is not some scientist's / doctor's conjecture or one off study it is as you say "the Fact, Jack"

What weed is accepted to be is dependency forming. That means that when you regularly use it, you enjoy its use, and the experience of using it enough that you voluntarily want to continue doing so.

I understand the scientific distinction between physiologically addicting and what you call "dependency forming" which is also often called psychologically addicting in the scientific papers.

The practical difference is how quickly the addiction can form. But once the addiction is formed, how much does it matter? Honey Badger was hooked on weed and could not quit even though the stakes were very high for him. He went from being a Heisman finalist and very promising LSU player to being a washed out loser in no time. His inability to quit smoking dope cost his LSU teammates, the LSU fans, and his own college football experience dearly.