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View Poll Results: Should Louisiana Legalize Drugs?
Marijuana only, and only for adults. Still a felony to provide to minors. 26 48.15%
Marijuana only for adults, reduced penalties for access to minors. 5 9.26%
Legalize all drugs for consenting adults. 6 11.11%
No changes to current Louisiana drugs laws. 15 27.78%
Reduce penalty for first time marijuana users: no jail time. 2 3.70%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 08-16-2013, 10:37 AM
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I heard he ordered some weed from university of Mississippi and and bunch of lab rats. . Nothing but love MG.
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  #62  
Old 08-16-2013, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Finfeatherfur View Post
Here is my perspective:

I put my self through school working as a deputy sheriff. Once through paramedic school I worked as a medic for both private ambulance services, finally ending my medical career in civil service work in a big city. After 15 years of medical calls and thousands of overdoses, I have never - EVER - transported or arrested someone overdosed on marijuana. Why? Because it is impossible to do! You will go to sleep before you stop breathing. I have run hundreds of calls, and had 3 that were fatal from acute alcohol poisioning. I have also transported more patients on prescrition Rx overdoses then I care to discuss.

Now that I am an oilfield guy, working part time in LE as a hobby, I see the problems from all angles. As an employer, we are forced to conduct drug testing on workers. Yet I can have a guy high as a kite continue to work because he has a prescription from a quack of a doctor. BUT, a man who has worked his entire life will go bankrupt trying to fight cancer and is arrested if he has some ganja to help with his side effects of chemo. Yet, we can make an arrest of a known drug dealer carrying 500lbs, to have the case plea bargained down to a simple possession and get their vehicle back.

To make matters worse, I can be sued and loose everything for having some leach of society video me trying to take a combative 25 y/o into custody who is naked in the street high on bath salts trying to eat my face that was tazed 4 times with no effect, so we go hands on, fighting for our life. The residents of the tax paid housing complex called us to deal with these people, but when we are on the ground fighting to control the maniac, they only film to have document for an attorney and offer no assistance to gain control of the subject.

Or how about the criminal drug dealer that has no job, owns 5 vehicles over $50k, and gets out of jail before the paperwork is complete for selling Roxi's to kids under 18y/o.

Do I like what I see - hellll no! Can it be fixed? At this point I am not so sure. I do know that I am more worried about 2 things right now more than anything:
1)- The abuse of prescription pills is staggering and out of control, with no end in sight. Yet, the DEA and FDA continue to allow it to happen.
2)- If this country doesn't do something really fast with the METH epidemic coming on so strong and fast, marijuana will be the last thing on their mind! I have never seen people as desperate as a METH head trying to score. It is very scary to see, and most have children that are getting stuck in the middle.

This rant is my opinion only, and not associated with the thoughts or ideas of others associated with any employers I have. I will continue to fight the war on drugs in this capacity and will remain vigilant in that fight. I will obey orders of my superiors and try to raise my kids in a manner that leads them down an honorable and successful path in life. With the help of GOD and my wife, I hope I am successful.

Well said. It's obvious that you are a professional and are going to do your duty regardless of personal opinion. As such you should be commended.

In my opinion the mess we are currently in really does represent a "Gordian" knot, as such there is only one truly viable solution cut the knot in half by legalizing. Take all the people currently employed in the war on drugs and put them to work in the industry created by helping to regulate the drugs to ensure safety.

It is undoubtably a "utopian" viewpoint... but like i said earlier if you aim small you miss small...
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  #63  
Old 08-16-2013, 11:02 AM
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We've got the strongest frickin' military in the world that can search a out a 6' plus ******head in some god forsaken sand land yet we can't use them to destroy drug cartels...
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The cops are the experts on the current criminal trends. If they have determined that a “high capacity” semiautomatic pistol and a .223 semiautomatic rifle with 30-round magazines are the best firearms for them to use to protect people like me and my family, they are obviously the best things for us to use to protect ourselves and our families .
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  #64  
Old 08-16-2013, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by swamp snorkler View Post
What happened to MG?
I do hope that he has not chosen to stop participating in this thread because of a feeling that he may have an unpopular opinion. I welcome a differing opinion because it ensures solid fact based discussion, and just like in the discussion earlier this month about triple tail.. it can end up with a scenario where people form a common purpose and support each other. In that discussion i did not support the original message of "don't support the CCA because they are a bunch of tools (because it didn't take into account all the good they had and continue to do) But i did end up supporting the letter calling for more study, Because it was a amazingly prudent request to make.

People do not easily change there opinions, and I have no doubt that MG most likely still disagrees with legalization and everything that's been discussed here. I do hope that he is looking for supporting studies / cases to refute whats been said here.

I don't know if anyone here is familiar with the 10th man rule, It's something that was purported to have started in Israel. It was considered to be the reaction that the jewish people took to deal with the atrocities that had been taken against them (no one would have believed that the holocaust could occur etc etc etc) The rule states that in any meeting of 10 men who are discussing how to act / react in a situation. It's the 10th mans duty is to disagree, No matter how impossible the situation must be to create for him to justify him disagreeing. HE MUST DISAGREE. AT LEAST ONE PERSON MUST PLAY DEVIL's ADVOCATE.

Therefore the committee of 10 comes out with a stronger more realistic law which can cover all eventualities because that 10th man forced them to deal with the unrealistic.

Even if MG continues this discussion as only a 10th man, we must respect his opinion and offer valid arguments, and not wild emotion, to come up with the best possible solutions.
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  #65  
Old 08-16-2013, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by SULPHITE View Post
We've got the strongest frickin' military in the world that can search a out a 6' plus ******head in some god forsaken sand land yet we can't use them to destroy drug cartels...
who the hell wants to destroy drug cartels? look at all the scandals that have shown that we are supplying them with their weapons. Follow the money, govn feels that it cannot stop the drug war right now, because so many are riding on its coattails in order to earn money.
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  #66  
Old 08-16-2013, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by AceArcher View Post
who the hell wants to destroy drug cartels? look at all the scandals that have shown that we are supplying them with their weapons. Follow the money, govn feels that it cannot stop the drug war right now, because so many are riding on its coattails in order to earn money.
In think if we legalized weed we wouldn't lose those jobs. Just move them to meth/ synthetic drug enforcement.

It is the senseless enforcement of the prohibition of a flower that has made cops the enemy of otherwise law abiding citizens.
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  #67  
Old 08-16-2013, 01:32 PM
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"Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery, instead be filled with the Spirit” - Ephesians 5:18

Whether one accepts the Bible as the Word of God or merely a compilation of human wisdom, one will notice the common theme that alcohol needs to be used in moderation. Jesus himself is shown turning water into wine, and the Apostle Paul recommends Timothy use a little wine because of frequent illnesses. Alcohol use in moderation could be wise and reasonable; alcohol use in excess (getting drunk) was forbidden, because it opened the door to greater evil.

The issue with recreational drugs is similar. Very few drugs are completely illegal, but rather they are highly regulated to minimize the potential for use in excess that would likely be detrimental to individuals, their families, and larger segments of society. One cannot paint accurately with a broad brush, because each drug is different and has different potential for legitimate uses, different risk factors for overuse, and differing propensities for the misuse by an individual to negatively impact those around him.

My view is that recreational and performance enhancing drugs (including medical drugs that have the potential for recreational and performance enhancing use) is that the degree of regulation should take into consideration the propensity for each drug to lead to greater evil and due consideration should be given to the different spheres of evil to which each drug presents an opening including: sexual immorality, unsafe driving, bad decision making, physical addiction, psychological addiction, criminal behaviors, health risks, the occult, inability to meet one's financial obligations.

I still recall when an eighth grade teacher recited the poem, “Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker” regarding the ability of each to yield the desired payoff. Cannabis in various forms can be quicker still, and I bet that in addition to the volumes of scientific literature associating cannabis use with high risk sexual behavior among teens, most readers also have some personal and anecdotal experience with the propensity for young men on the make plying their targets with cannabis and other recreational drugs with the main aim of sexual gratification. The ad campaign, “Get high, get stupid, get AIDS” may sound like a trite soundbite, but there is a lot of solid science and well considered wisdom behind the six word summary. There are some conflicting studies regarding whether legal outlets increase teen drug use, but one Colorado study found that 3/4of teen users attributed the source of their pot to medical marijuana outlets.

Both Biblical and secular military wisdom emphasize self-control. Both academic and athletic performance emphasize self-control gained through mastery of the discipl[SIZE=2]ine[/SIZE] rather than fraudulent short cuts through either performance enhancing drugs or other cheating. Most are disappointed when they learn that a sports hero (or one of their own children) has achieved success through cheating, and most support the testing and other regulatory efforts of academic, military, and athletic governing bodies to maintain the integrity of their activities and institutions.

Good citizens should be just as concerned with self-control as academic, military, and athletic institutions. Most readers should be enthusiastic supporters of the right to keep and bear arms, and would agree with the sentiment that, “Gun control is being able to hit your target.” Most like the joke that a good “one gun a month” law should require heads of households to buy at least one gun a month. Just as the military could not foresee Pearl Harbor coming on December 7, 1941, and the intelligence community could not foresee the attacks of September 11, 2001, the shepherd of a family cannot foresee the time when the wolf will be at the door.

I would hate to be hallucinating under the influence of marijuana or have my fine motor control impaired by some other recreational drug at the moment my family needs my complete and functioning faculties to fend off the wolf at the door. Personally, I don't even drink one or two drinks while boating, fishing, or playing the role of a single parent (traveling with my children or wife out of town.) There are just too many possible combinations of mechanical failures, meteorological challenges, unforeseen emergencies, risks brought about by wild animals or evil people for me to be impaired while caring for my children. And, without doubt, nearly every recreational drug represents some degree of impairment when dealing with unexpected emergencies.


I am no fan of the nanny state or the manner in which the war on drugs has motivated and “justified” constitutional infringements, asset forfeitures, and the growth of government powers. As a man of faith, however, I realize, that the governmental powers do not bear the sword for nothing, and that government restraint of evil is valid if exercised within Constitutional boundaries. In the Federalist Papers, our founding fathers pointed out that one benefit of the federal system was that different states would be at liberty to implement different laws governing their citizens. Bold adoption of new laws by one state could serve as an experiment whose consequences could be carefully weighed by other states when considering whether to follow suit.

By adopting libertarian ideals on drug use without adopting commensurate libertarian freedoms for insurers, employers, educational institutions, or even parents, California, Colorado, and Washington are headed for moral and educational disaster, and the eventual financial disaster that is sure to follow. Drug law and policy in a given state is more a question of wisdom than a fundamental matter of righteousness. I hope and pray that my beloved home state of Louisiana takes a good, long (decades long) look and gives careful consideration to the outcome of these states' policies before imitating them.

Do you see the US as headed toward many more decades of peace and prosperity that will insulate ill prepared heads of households and allow continued prosperity regardless of whether the general population displays self-control or debauchery? Or do you see a future where Louisiana will need to demonstrate a level of self-control that separates it from the folly of California and the Northeast? Marijuana laws have barely been enforced in New Orleans for decades, is this your desire for the rest of the state?

Since the characteristics and risks of each drug are multidimensional, I find it overly simplistic to characterize drugs as “hard” or “soft” or to simply say a given drug is “better” or “worse” than alcohol or tobacco. Nicotine is more addictive than cannabis, but cannabis is more likely to lead to bad decision making (especially bad sexual decisions) and loss of fine motor control. Long term alcohol use may present more medical risks than cannabis, but cannabis is much more challenging for inexperienced users to use in moderation (avoid getting “high” or “stoned” with likely hallucinations and risk of poor decision making). I sure hope providing cannabis to children without parental consent remains a felony in Louisiana and in the other states we'll need on our side when push comes to shove.
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  #68  
Old 08-16-2013, 02:08 PM
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The statement about "Hallucinating" on weed shows you really have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Marijuana.
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  #69  
Old 08-16-2013, 02:19 PM
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If it is a moral issue with you then fine but you CAN NOT legislate morality.

If you wanna get biblical.

Genesis 1:29 - And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed;

That 3/4 kids get pot from a dispensary nonsense.
That's a sales pitch. " hey man I got that medical bud ". Then kid answers survey yeah I have smoked dispensary weed.

New Orleans ?!? Really. The city ruined by alcohol fueled violence and you blame that on pot.

And a felony. Really ? 2 parents get busted for a ounce and kids get shipped off to foster care and forever traumatized .

What about the children indeed.
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  #70  
Old 08-16-2013, 02:22 PM
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Respectfully sir but by that logic people should be locked up for just possessing a beer. How come you approach everything from science until the science is not in your favor.
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  #71  
Old 08-16-2013, 02:34 PM
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Respectfully sir but by that logic people should be locked up for just possessing a beer. How come you approach everything from science until the science is not in your favor.
MG may well be approaching this from a 10th man arguement standpoint.

He may simply being playing the devil's advocate. Or he may be a staunch believer of everything he has stated.

He is however absolutely and totally allowed to have an his own opinion.

Same as you or I.
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  #72  
Old 08-16-2013, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MathGeek View Post
"Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery, instead be filled with the Spirit” - Ephesians 5:18

Whether one accepts the Bible as the Word of God or merely a compilation of human wisdom, one will notice the common theme that alcohol needs to be used in moderation. Jesus himself is shown turning water into wine, and the Apostle Paul recommends Timothy use a little wine because of frequent illnesses. Alcohol use in moderation could be wise and reasonable; alcohol use in excess (getting drunk) was forbidden, because it opened the door to greater evil.

The issue with recreational drugs is similar. Very few drugs are completely illegal, but rather they are highly regulated to minimize the potential for use in excess that would likely be detrimental to individuals, their families, and larger segments of society. One cannot paint accurately with a broad brush, because each drug is different and has different potential for legitimate uses, different risk factors for overuse, and differing propensities for the misuse by an individual to negatively impact those around him.

My view is that recreational and performance enhancing drugs (including medical drugs that have the potential for recreational and performance enhancing use) is that the degree of regulation should take into consideration the propensity for each drug to lead to greater evil and due consideration should be given to the different spheres of evil to which each drug presents an opening including: sexual immorality, unsafe driving, bad decision making, physical addiction, psychological addiction, criminal behaviors, health risks, the occult, inability to meet one's financial obligations.

I still recall when an eighth grade teacher recited the poem, “Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker” regarding the ability of each to yield the desired payoff. Cannabis in various forms can be quicker still, and I bet that in addition to the volumes of scientific literature associating cannabis use with high risk sexual behavior among teens, most readers also have some personal and anecdotal experience with the propensity for young men on the make plying their targets with cannabis and other recreational drugs with the main aim of sexual gratification. The ad campaign, “Get high, get stupid, get AIDS” may sound like a trite soundbite, but there is a lot of solid science and well considered wisdom behind the six word summary. There are some conflicting studies regarding whether legal outlets increase teen drug use, but one Colorado study found that 3/4of teen users attributed the source of their pot to medical marijuana outlets.

Both Biblical and secular military wisdom emphasize self-control. Both academic and athletic performance emphasize self-control gained through mastery of the discipl[SIZE=2]ine[/SIZE] rather than fraudulent short cuts through either performance enhancing drugs or other cheating. Most are disappointed when they learn that a sports hero (or one of their own children) has achieved success through cheating, and most support the testing and other regulatory efforts of academic, military, and athletic governing bodies to maintain the integrity of their activities and institutions.

Good citizens should be just as concerned with self-control as academic, military, and athletic institutions. Most readers should be enthusiastic supporters of the right to keep and bear arms, and would agree with the sentiment that, “Gun control is being able to hit your target.” Most like the joke that a good “one gun a month” law should require heads of households to buy at least one gun a month. Just as the military could not foresee Pearl Harbor coming on December 7, 1941, and the intelligence community could not foresee the attacks of September 11, 2001, the shepherd of a family cannot foresee the time when the wolf will be at the door.

I would hate to be hallucinating under the influence of marijuana or have my fine motor control impaired by some other recreational drug at the moment my family needs my complete and functioning faculties to fend off the wolf at the door. Personally, I don't even drink one or two drinks while boating, fishing, or playing the role of a single parent (traveling with my children or wife out of town.) There are just too many possible combinations of mechanical failures, meteorological challenges, unforeseen emergencies, risks brought about by wild animals or evil people for me to be impaired while caring for my children. And, without doubt, nearly every recreational drug represents some degree of impairment when dealing with unexpected emergencies.


I am no fan of the nanny state or the manner in which the war on drugs has motivated and “justified” constitutional infringements, asset forfeitures, and the growth of government powers. As a man of faith, however, I realize, that the governmental powers do not bear the sword for nothing, and that government restraint of evil is valid if exercised within Constitutional boundaries. In the Federalist Papers, our founding fathers pointed out that one benefit of the federal system was that different states would be at liberty to implement different laws governing their citizens. Bold adoption of new laws by one state could serve as an experiment whose consequences could be carefully weighed by other states when considering whether to follow suit.

By adopting libertarian ideals on drug use without adopting commensurate libertarian freedoms for insurers, employers, educational institutions, or even parents, California, Colorado, and Washington are headed for moral and educational disaster, and the eventual financial disaster that is sure to follow. Drug law and policy in a given state is more a question of wisdom than a fundamental matter of righteousness. I hope and pray that my beloved home state of Louisiana takes a good, long (decades long) look and gives careful consideration to the outcome of these states' policies before imitating them.

Do you see the US as headed toward many more decades of peace and prosperity that will insulate ill prepared heads of households and allow continued prosperity regardless of whether the general population displays self-control or debauchery? Or do you see a future where Louisiana will need to demonstrate a level of self-control that separates it from the folly of California and the Northeast? Marijuana laws have barely been enforced in New Orleans for decades, is this your desire for the rest of the state?

Since the characteristics and risks of each drug are multidimensional, I find it overly simplistic to characterize drugs as “hard” or “soft” or to simply say a given drug is “better” or “worse” than alcohol or tobacco. Nicotine is more addictive than cannabis, but cannabis is more likely to lead to bad decision making (especially bad sexual decisions) and loss of fine motor control. Long term alcohol use may present more medical risks than cannabis, but cannabis is much more challenging for inexperienced users to use in moderation (avoid getting “high” or “stoned” with likely hallucinations and risk of poor decision making). I sure hope providing cannabis to children without parental consent remains a felony in Louisiana and in the other states we'll need on our side when push comes to shove.
I am not going to tackle this from a point by point basis, every concern you have listed above is easily researched and debunked with a quick google search.

I am going to choose to answer the question as if you are indeed playing devil's advocate, additionally i am going to endeavor to keep it quite short and sweet.

You say in the above that you make sure to not imbide alcohol in situations where there may be a chance that your skills will be needed in their full capacity.

If "Soft" (alcohol, nicotine, marijuana (by any of its various forms), & mushrooms) are legalized. And for some odd reason, you decide that you would like to partake of them.

Are you likely to do so at a time which will put your children / family at risk. Or are you likely to do so at the same times that you enjoy an occasional adult beverage?

The average american who chooses to partake will most likely make the exact same choice that any reasonable person would make in that situation.

The sky is not likely fall, The Zombie Apocalypse isn't going to occur, People are not going to all turn into meth freaks, the end of days will not be upon us...... The only thing that's bound to happen is a bunch of people sitting around scratching there heads saying "why the hell didn't we do this sooner".

I sincerely hope that happens much sooner rather than later. We really really need to focus our talents on things that actually matter in today's world.
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  #73  
Old 08-16-2013, 02:50 PM
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You're right ace I'm sorry MG. I've seen prohibition ruin a lot of lives and I get to worked up about this issue.
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  #74  
Old 08-16-2013, 03:41 PM
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Respectfully sir but by that logic people should be locked up for just possessing a beer. How come you approach everything from science until the science is not in your favor.
Not at all. I would not support mandatory imprisonment for misdemeanor cannabis violations. Implying that I would is an example of the strawman fallacy, as is the suggestion that I would favor taking children away from parents for nothing more than a single misdemeanor drug charge.

Implying that I approach everything from science until the science is not in my favor is another strawman fallacy, as well as apparently hypocritical. You are the one dismissing out of hand the scientific impact of the study showing 3/4 of the youths with weed in Colorado report getting that marijuana through MMJ channels. You are the one dismissing and failing to give any answer to the scientific fact that cannabis is a very common contributing factor to risky sexual behavior among teenagers. I have acknowledged the scientific finding that alcohol has more longer term health risks than cannabis, but you have ignored the possibility of hallucinating on cannabis as well as the loss of motor control and greater challenges for inexperienced users to use in moderation and avoid getting "high" or "stoned."


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I am not going to tackle this from a point by point basis, every concern you have listed above is easily researched and debunked with a quick google search.
I call your bluff. If you can easily research and debunk "every concern" with a quick google search, then these three should be no problem:

1. Cannabis use is associated with risky sexual behavior in teens.

2. Cannabis use impairs motor control.

3. Nearly every recreational drug represents some degree of impairment when dealing with unexpected emergencies.

Quote:
You say in the above that you make sure to not imbide alcohol in situations where there may be a chance that your skills will be needed in their full capacity.

If "Soft" (alcohol, nicotine, marijuana (by any of its various forms), & mushrooms) are legalized. And for some odd reason, you decide that you would like to partake of them.

Are you likely to do so at a time which will put your children / family at risk. Or are you likely to do so at the same times that you enjoy an occasional adult beverage?
A designated driver is a good idea, no? If the soldiers are enjoying a few on a weekend, there should still be a few standing guard at the base who are sober, no? My idea is the same. An adult in a situation needs to be capable of addressing emergency situations, especially when caring for children, whether that emergency situation is a tornado, an allergic reaction, a lost child, a bear raiding the garbage, or gang bangers breaking into the home. If I'm the only adult, then I'm the designated guardian.
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Old 08-16-2013, 04:09 PM
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Okay...

I would hazard a guess that you can find a study showing that a stiff wind can be associated with a higher risk of "risky sexual behaviour" in teens. Drugs do not drive the reproductive urges of teenagers, hormones do. The biological need / desire to mate is something hard wired into every species on this planet. As a young man i used to think that i needed to get a hot rod car in order to have any chance of getting a date. As i have become older i have realized just how foolish i was. But i can tell you for a fact that i worked my butt off to get a nice car

Cannabis use does impair you, as does every legal / illegal drug. What cannabis does not do is take over your mind and force you to smoke wacky weed 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. There is more than adequate scientific evidence showing that people are perfectly capable of being safe, solid members of society even though they partake of cannabis on a recreational basis.

Agreed on the third statement... Isn't that the point? your partaking of a drug on a recreational basis to in order to "take the edge off, enjoy an adult beverage...." etc whatever word you want to describe getting a bit buzzed.

For what its worth, i would say that Clampy is ignoring far, far less scientific studies than you are

In regards to the final bit. Sure designated drivers are a great idea. But you still have not answered my question. If you choose to partake of "weed" were it to become legal would you do so at a time when it's likely that you will need all of your skills, mental and physical, or will you do it in a downtime similar to when you would likely enjoys a scotch on the rocks now?

You don't even need to answer. You would do so when it's safe to do so... same as every other reasonable responsible person on the planet.
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Old 08-16-2013, 04:26 PM
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Respectfully sir but by that logic people should be locked up for just possessing a beer. How come you approach everything from science until the science is not in your favor.
+1
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Old 08-16-2013, 04:37 PM
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1. Cannabis use is associated with risky sexual behavior in teens.

2. Cannabis use impairs motor control.

3. Nearly every recreational drug represents some degree of impairment when dealing with unexpected emergencies.


No need to debunk these. You said it yourself. Straw man arguments.

Really are these the reasons we need to put other wise law abiding citizens in a cage ?

1. Being a teenager is what causes risky sexual behavior

2. that's the point.

3. And? Far less of a risk than any and I mean ANY other intoxicating substance on earth.

No one is tripping on weed. Believe me I tried. Once you bake it into something and eat it the liver Metabolizes it into a different substance called 11 hydroxy metabolite which is WAY stronger than smoked cannabis and that doesn't make you trip. Closed eye visuals maybe.

Dude i have read that study that says three out of four kids get their marijuana from dispensaries.
And that's all they did was ask them if the ever used medical pot.

From experience I can tell you dealers use " medical" as a sales pitch. So when the kid gets weed from a dealer and he has told him that it was medical Or from a dispensary Of course that's how he is answering the survey.

You could have saved time and said.


" Drugs are bad Mmmmmm Kay !"
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  #78  
Old 08-16-2013, 04:39 PM
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This makes me wanna smoke a doob but work and laws won't let me so I guess it's off to the hard drugs. Where's my beer !
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Old 08-16-2013, 04:40 PM
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I'm glad these uniformed ideologies are in the minority now.
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Old 08-16-2013, 04:51 PM
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This is not pointed at anyone... but might i suggest that we all take a break / breather from this thread for a while.

It is human nature to be passionate about what you believe in.

But sometimes reflection can bring important things to light.

Perhaps a 1 day break is in order?
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