Weirs

[captray]

Todays Lake Charles paper, 6.94 inches of rain yesterday, 14.51 month to date, thats 8.4 inches more than normal this month and we are 2.69 inches ahead for the year, yet the weirs are still closed, what do we need to open? another storm

[Smalls]

Guess we'll all find out in about a week and a half. The thing is, where was all that rain? That could be a rain gauge downtown. I guess if its coming from NOAA or something, it might be from the airport. I know there was A LOT of rain yesterday across the area, but has 14.5 inches fallen across the entire area for the month?

I can remember days where we got down pours at mom and dad's south of town, but pawpaw was saying they didn't get a drop in town.

[Goooh]

Originally Posted by Smalls

Guess we'll all find out in about a week and a half. The thing is, where was all that rain? That could be a rain gauge downtown. I guess if its coming from NOAA or something, it might be from the airport. I know there was A LOT of rain yesterday across the area, but has 14.5 inches fallen across the entire area for the month?

I can remember days where we got down pours at mom and dad's south of town, but pawpaw was saying they didn't get a drop in town.

The rain we have been getting hasn't been popcorn summer downpours, the systems have covered nearly the entire state

[MathGeek]

The big problem is that since the erosion of the land barrier between the lower lake and ship channel, the lower lake is much more strongly coupled to the Gulf of Mexico and has much higher salinities. The two attachments show the salinity as measured at Hackberry and at Cameron. Since the erosion of the land barrier and increased coupling between the lower lake and lower ship channel, the salinity on the lake side of the weirs is closer to that at Cameron than at Hackberry.

If the coupling between the lower lake and ship channel could be reduced so that the lower lake had salinities closer to Hackberry, then the weirs could take greater advantage of fresh water infusions and be open more days per year without allowing too much salt to enter the marsh. Salinity levels below 8-10 parts per thousand (ppt) present much less risk to the marsh than levels above 15-20 ppt, which is where Cameron (and the lower lake) have spent most of the month of June.

[jchief]

http://www.intellicast.com/National/...ation=USLA0338

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by Goooh

The rain we have been getting hasn't been popcorn summer downpours, the systems have covered nearly the entire state

Didn't say they were. We have been getting the same systems y'all have. But, that doesn't change the fact that some areas may get significantly more rain than others. There are parts of Prairieville that have received 9 inches of rain in some of these storms, but other areas near by have not received half of that.

Its been sun shiny blue skies at my office in Baton Rouge, while it's down pouring at my house or at my wife's office which is about 10 minutes from mine.

Like MG said, its all about the salinity. Doesn't matter what the rainfall is if it doesn't drop the salinity in the marsh.

[noodle creek]

7 inches on our rain gauge yesterday in 2 hours south of LC. From about jennings west to the border got the worst of it I believe. This was the 4th major downpour we have had at my house in the last month, but I can't speak for others.

[Smalls]

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/la/nwis/uv...95231093100100

That is a link to the realtime data for one of the CRMS stations back in the marsh. Salinity right now is about 14 ppt.

Looks like some of the ones closer to the lake are about as high, probably higher.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by noodle creek

7 inches on our rain gauge yesterday in 2 hours south of LC. From about jennings west to the border got the worst of it I believe. This was the 4th major downpour we have had at my house in the last month, but I can't speak for others.

When the salinity at both Cameron and Hackberry are both below 10 ppt, you've got a case that the weirs can probably be opened for a few days in a given week without harming the marsh. The hydrology of the region is complex, so the believed cause (observed rainfall) does not guarantee the desired effect (lowered salinity).

Some of you guys should make the meeting on 9 July try and get real answers regarding whether weir operation is closely tied to measured salinity as it should be, and what salinity range in the lake is considered safe with respect to opening the weirs.

[Tjethro85]

I just want them to show hard evidence that it's because of elevated salinity and not because of high dollar duck leases keeping grass.

["W"]

The salt is higher in the marsh than the lake right now according to a good source

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by Tjethro85

I just want them to show hard evidence that it's because of elevated salinity and not because of high dollar duck leases keeping grass.

Even if they showed that proof, people are still going to argue they are doing it for the ducks. I've countless times showed data that the marsh has been affected. You can look at the CRMS website, and look at the change in the marsh vegetation over time to more salinity tolerant species.

Waltrip- What are the water levels like? It doesn't matter if the salinity in the lake is lower if the water level in the marsh is higher. It looks like that is not the case, so there is a valid argument for the weirs being open right now.

[Paulox86]

Originally Posted by "W"

The salt is higher in the marsh than the lake right now according to a good source

Explain how, with the weirs closed, the salinity gets higher in the marsh than in BL. I cannot figure that out. Not a smart as question, just asking how.


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[Smalls]

Originally Posted by Paulox86

Explain how, with the weirs closed, the salinity gets higher in the marsh than in BL. I cannot figure that out. Not a smart as question, just asking how.


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Curious how Waltrip will respond. Please, no one spoil this by giving the true answer.

["W"]

Originally Posted by Paulox86

Explain how, with the weirs closed, the salinity gets higher in the marsh than in BL. I cannot figure that out. Not a smart as question, just asking how.


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Because last time they opened the weirs for 3 days the water never came out of the marsh ,it just went in for 72 hrs straight .

The marsh was already high salinity to start with and marsh was 3ft lower than lake

Freshwater evaporates before saltwater


That is why the marsh behind weirs is now higher than the lake

["W"]

Originally Posted by Tjethro85

I just want them to show hard evidence that it's because of elevated salinity and not because of high dollar duck leases keeping grass.

It's 100% for duck hunters and saving marsh grass , opening the weirs will not do anymore damage than keeping them closed

Keeping closed actually does more damage to the lake and system

Big money duck hunters run the gates and for that , they control the water

[MathGeek]

Good management, especially when salinity is higher in the marsh than the lake would likely allow two way tidal flow and good exchange of both forage and water, leaving less salt behind the weirs at closing than when they were opened.

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by "W"

Because last time they opened the weirs for 3 days the water never came out of the marsh ,it just went in for 72 hrs straight .

The marsh was already high salinity to start with and marsh was 3ft lower than lake

Freshwater evaporates before saltwater


That is why the marsh behind weirs is now higher than the lake

Well, he actually got something right.

But that has nothing to do with why the salinity becomes elevated in the marsh. Saltwater still evaporates, but it is not the salt that is evaporating. When saltwater evaporates, the salt just becomes more concentrated, thus you get higher salinities.

As far as your last post about the weirs, it doesn't surprise me.

You will never learn.

["W"]

What I'm saying Wed the salinity was pulled in marsh and was 16 and lake was 7

This is from good source

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

When the salinity at both Cameron and Hackberry are both below 10 ppt, you've got a case that the weirs can probably be opened for a few days in a given week without harming the marsh. The hydrology of the region is complex, so the believed cause (observed rainfall) does not guarantee the desired effect (lowered salinity).

Some of you guys should make the meeting on 9 July regarding whether weir operation is closely tied to measured salinity as it should be, and what salinity range in the lake is considered safe with respect to opening the weirs.

you gonna be there MG?