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  #21  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:30 PM
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How do you train and organize a group of people for an event that isn't likely to reoccur in the next decade? Gona have monthly training classes for the next ten/fifteen years. One orientation class when you sign up isn't going to work. A decade from now when something happens people won't remember that class. 10% will be dead. 10% won't have a boat anymore because of the divorce and 10% will have boats in the shop that don't run.
I don't recall reading a single news story that said a person was worse off because a bunch of uncertified people showed up to help them.
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  #22  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:33 PM
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All they have to know is where they are in the chain of command and don't do unless you are given an order to by someone in a position of authority.
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  #23  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marque View Post
All they have to know is where they are in the chain of command and don't do unless you are given an order to by someone in a position of authority.
So if I see your old lady or daughter in trouble of drowning/being swept away/snake bite etc...... you'd want me to wait for an order to go help them right?
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  #24  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:39 PM
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Let the cops and fireman be the Heroes until there there's a need for you to be one. I think they would be more likely to ask for aassistance from Joe blow if they had some confidence they wouldn't end up having to rescue him as well.
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  #25  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jcredeur View Post
Whether it's at my paid department or my volunteer department I want competent people working around me... A level of competence is expected from myself and our crew, I expect it from everyone working around me also. My life could very well be in their hands... You would be surprised at the amount of victims that started out as untrained would be rescuers..


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I was a volunteer firefighter. I know all about training. I also know the trapped person doesn't give a damn about training or certifications when they are trapped. The only thing that matters to them at that point is getting out.
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  #26  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:45 PM
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Let the cops and fireman be the Heroes until there there's a need for you to be one. I think they would be more likely to ask for aassistance from Joe blow if they had some confidence they wouldn't end up having to rescue him as well.
We aren't talking about people stepping in front of trained professionals. I'm talking about when there is an obvious need for more help than they can provide in the moment.
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  #27  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by duckman1911 View Post
I was a volunteer firefighter. I know all about training. I also know the trapped person doesn't give a damn about training or certifications when they are trapped. The only thing that matters to them at that point is getting out.
Well said. My hats off to those that spent their own money and gave time to go and help. Did some people go and drink beer, etc. and get in the way I'm sure they did but the majority were there to help. Let's not take what is great about Louisiana and make it like everything else in this country please.
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  #28  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:46 PM
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[QUOTE=duckman1911;804794]I was a volunteer firefighter. I know all about training. I also know the trapped person doesn't give a damn about training or certifications when they are trapped. The only thing that matters to them at that point is getting out.[/

True but this is besides the original post.... Let's get back to chain of command and incident organization. Say we have 25 people in an area where we have 5 boats operating... Do we want all five boats going to house to house or duplicating efforts or do we want resources properly allocated and moving through victims in the most efficient manner???


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  #29  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:48 PM
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[quote=Jcredeur;804798]
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Originally Posted by duckman1911 View Post
I was a volunteer firefighter. I know all about training. I also know the trapped person doesn't give a damn about training or certifications when they are trapped. The only thing that matters to them at that point is getting out.[/

True but this is besides the original post.... Let's get back to chain of command and incident organization. Say we have 25 people in an area where we have 5 boats operating... Do we want all five boats going to house to house or duplicating efforts or do we want resources properly allocated and moving through victims in the most efficient manner???


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You are right in what you are saying but I think this was a chaos type of situation and there was no real way to control it. People were literally drowning in the streets, in that situation it's all hands on deck and you get as many hands out there as you possibly can. I'd prefer someone coming in to not spend the 15 minutes checking with "the boss" and just come get me before I run out of air.
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  #30  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by duckman1911 View Post
How do you train and organize a group of people for an event that isn't likely to reoccur in the next decade? Gona have monthly training classes for the next ten/fifteen years. One orientation class when you sign up isn't going to work. A decade from now when something happens people won't remember that class. 10% will be dead. 10% won't have a boat anymore because of the divorce and 10% will have boats in the shop that don't run.
I don't recall reading a single news story that said a person was worse off because a bunch of uncertified people showed up to help them.
For once i can agree with you Duckman.

So now with the state budget in shambles, The taxpayers will start footing the bill for on going training for people that want to help out in a disaster.

The alternative is spend a bunch of money for some one time classes and hand everyone a piece of paper that says certified. That actually sounds more like what the government would do. Meanwhile some state legislator will stand proudly running off at the mouth about some bill he created to fund all this.
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  #31  
Old 08-24-2016, 12:58 PM
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Guys just be thankful you live in a state where people still come together for the community and try to help one another. Baton Rouge before this was in the middle of a racial war with BLM, etc.... Once the flooding started that didn't matter anymore. Everyone helped each other.
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  #32  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:06 PM
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One of the few times I agree with duckman about anything. Train people for something that we may never see happen again in our lives? If I was stranded in a sinking car, do you think I care wether the hand that's reaching out for me is licensed, trained, or qualified rescuer? Or if he has a 6-pack of beer in his boat? All I will care about is grabbing the hand that is reaching out to me.
Like everything else these days, the media has turned a good thing into a contraversy. Now the local gov't is in play. Greed is ugly!
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  #33  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Feesherman View Post
So if I see your old lady or daughter in trouble of drowning/being swept away/snake bite etc...... you'd want me to wait for an order to go help them right?
Jesus Christ, you would have to be a real a$$hole to let an old lady drown. You guys can't see the forest threw the trees. We deal with hurricanes mostly in Louisiana. If you are dealing with something the magnitude of Katrina or Rita ANY response needs to be coordinated. None of you have ever been in the military? Really you can't have a bunch of entities operating independent of each other and achieve the same goal. People don't read each others mind. If everyone on board has a basic idea of how things work then resources get devoted to the proper place. The situation is already chaotic enough without a bunch bunch of people wondering around without any clear idea of what is going on. In a situation where someone is drowning in the streets there isn't going to be anyone there from preventing you from saving them. Thats why the military standardizes it training. Its because you may not have ever met the person you are working with but you have both had the same training so you know how its going to go down. Same principle. Otherwise trained first responders end up being cat headers. Rounding up all the people trying to help but are really just in the way.
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  #34  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:13 PM
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[quote=ckinchen;804799]
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Originally Posted by Jcredeur View Post

You are right in what you are saying but I think this was a chaos type of situation and there was no real way to control it. People were literally drowning in the streets, in that situation it's all hands on deck and you get as many hands out there as you possibly can. I'd prefer someone coming in to not spend the 15 minutes checking with "the boss" and just come get me before I run out of air.
X2
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  #35  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Marque View Post
All they have to know is where they are in the chain of command and don't do unless you are given an order to by someone in a position of authority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marque View Post
Let the cops and fireman be the Heroes until there there's a need for you to be one. I think they would be more likely to ask for aassistance from Joe blow if they had some confidence they wouldn't end up having to rescue him as well.
My god, man.
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  #36  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:21 PM
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And do I really have to remind you guys how crazy lawsuits are nowadays. Whats to prevent some you rescue from suing you or the state if they are hurt while in your care? If the State is complicit with allowing the average untrained citizen to rescue its citizens they they can most likely be held liable for damages incurred while in your care. God forbid someone dies because you didn't have a 4 hour first aid class. If there isn't some paper work that can absolve the state from that responsiblity than that is a big risk they assume. Anyone volunteering his boat in a rescue doesn't have the proper liability insurance then hold on for the ride. That is the nature of the world we live in. The state has a responsibly to protect themselves from liability the same as you. Lawyers can find loopholes everywhere.
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  #37  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by seachaser250 View Post
For once i can agree with you Duckman.

So now with the state budget in shambles, The taxpayers will start footing the bill for on going training for people that want to help out in a disaster.

The alternative is spend a bunch of money for some one time classes and hand everyone a piece of paper that says certified. That actually sounds more like what the government would do. Meanwhile some state legislator will stand proudly running off at the mouth about some bill he created to fund all this.
You are exactly right. It would get turned into an expensive di ck measuring contest with every one In politics going around saying "look what I did. It's going to be better now".
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  #38  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by duckman1911 View Post
You are exactly right. It would get turned into an expensive di ck measuring contest with every one In politics going around saying "look what I did. It's going to be better now".
I guess they think that theyll only sell permits to "competent" ppl. Lol
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  #39  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:34 PM
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I think I got this. If a disaster hits and ppl need to be rescued. Wait til a cop, wlf agent, or politician gives you an assignment. Lulz
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  #40  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marque View Post
Jesus Christ, you would have to be a real a$$hole to let an old lady drown. You guys can't see the forest threw the trees. We deal with hurricanes mostly in Louisiana. If you are dealing with something the magnitude of Katrina or Rita ANY response needs to be coordinated. None of you have ever been in the military? Really you can't have a bunch of entities operating independent of each other and achieve the same goal. People don't read each others mind. If everyone on board has a basic idea of how things work then resources get devoted to the proper place. The situation is already chaotic enough without a bunch bunch of people wondering around without any clear idea of what is going on. In a situation where someone is drowning in the streets there isn't going to be anyone there from preventing you from saving them. Thats why the military standardizes it training. Its because you may not have ever met the person you are working with but you have both had the same training so you know how its going to go down. Same principle. Otherwise trained first responders end up being cat headers. Rounding up all the people trying to help but are really just in the way.
Great article except you left out the part where nobody died because of those untrained unorganized people that came to help. People lived because of those untrained unorganized people that came to help. Stop being a Monday morning quarterback
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