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  #61  
Old 08-24-2016, 02:29 PM
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I can understand that most here have more boat driving experience than most LEOs. But that is not what the training will be ,it will be organizational skills and communication .
everyone here knows who Jim Hawthorne is, He and his wife sat an extra 2 days hearing boats on other streets , but none on theirs, Everyone thought that someone else had cleared that small street. One boater decided since he hadn't been down that street he would go back to his trailer that way. saved their life. If rescuers are registered then they can be assigned a grid to search. That way every street gets checked at least 2-3 times. I'm not saying that if the govt is not ready for you not to go But it will do away w/ so much duplication allowing boats to spread out farther and rescue more people. it will also weed out the cooyons that are just looking.


Unless they have been out there chest deep going door to door only to realize that that tea was already cleared or got back to the station thinking you have completed your job and you get called to an area where civilian boats didn't communicate that they didn't clear, they won't understand....


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  #62  
Old 08-24-2016, 02:44 PM
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What it boils down to is our government got bi tch slapped. People had friends, neighbors, family and communities that were in trouble and people helped. They didn't care about permission or training or certifications. They did what had to be done to help and it was a big middle finger to the government. They were shown just how little they are needed and now they are pissed.
I am in no way disagreeing with you about people helping people out. But I think after the last few hurricanes and now this flood its obvious the state would benefit from some sort of auxiliary rescue organization. Like fire or police have. They are trained and responding to a disaster is no less dangerous. There are laws in place that prevent civilians from entering disaster areas. Those laws are primarily geared toward limiting the states liability because martial law usually applies to disaster areas. People really want to help each other out they shouldn't mind learning the basics of disaster response. I spend enough time on the water to realize that a large majority of people who own boats are truly clueless about safely operating them. Throw in the chaos of a natural disaster and you have a time bomb on your hands. I was in NOLA right after Katrina and it was chaos, there was no organization no coordination. There were 100 different organizations operating independently until they put Gen H in charge and from then on thing went soother. In the Marine Corps I responded to an earthquake in Turkey and it was bedlam because of the lack of command and control in the response, the government 1st responders and government officials just went home. 2000 marines basically did the job of 20,000 because there was no break down. Everyone has a job to do and does it. Logistically speaking the response to this flood was easy. There wasn't mass power outages, phone lines down or anything else like you have during a hurricane. When 1500 people dead in their houses and just as many on the verge of dying the only way to get them to safety is for the response to be organized. The only thing that maintains order in that situation is that there is no doubt there is someone in charge and on top of it. Other wise you get riots and looting. Use some common sense. If there is no one there to save someones life do you think I am in favor of letting them drown. I feel like I am arguing with women. Really every situation is different but the law has to be encompassing enough to address these problems and flexible at the same time. I am not Monday morning quarterbacking I just try to see more than one side to an argument. I am smart enough to realize I don't know everything.
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  #63  
Old 08-24-2016, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Jcredeur View Post
Unless they have been out there chest deep going door to door only to realize that that tea was already cleared or got back to the station thinking you have completed your job and you get called to an area where civilian boats didn't communicate that they didn't clear, they won't understand....


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You take the organized efforts of the LEO's and government and let them do exactly what was described where you go street to street, etc.. and that force builds up over time. The first responders which in this case was the Cajun navy, they run around in chaos mode doing the best that they can knowing that the organized effort is going to check street by street, door to door. In order to organize with civilians you would have to be able to communicate. Cell phones didn't work, civilians generally do not have police radios or even marine radios on most boats. You never know where the flood is going to be so you can't at least in the early stages setup a check point for helpers at every possible boat launch or access point. The government was not ready to lead or guide anyway, it happened to quickly. I don't blame them and I haven't heard anyone else blame LEO's either. People just got to work. No permit required.
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  #64  
Old 08-24-2016, 02:48 PM
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Would someone please point out a flood story were someone was worse off because a bunch of untrained civilians.
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  #65  
Old 08-24-2016, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ckinchen View Post
You take the organized efforts of the LEO's and government and let them do exactly what was described where you go street to street, etc.. and that force builds up over time. The first responders which in this case was the Cajun navy, they run around in chaos mode doing the best that they can knowing that the organized effort is going to check street by street, door to door. In order to organize with civilians you would have to be able to communicate. Cell phones didn't work, civilians generally do not have police radios or even marine radios on most boats. You never know where the flood is going to be so you can't at least in the early stages setup a check point for helpers at every possible boat launch or access point. The government was not ready to lead or guide anyway, it happened to quickly. I don't blame them and I haven't heard anyone else blame LEO's either. People just got to work. No permit required.


Ok why not organize them, pair them off with First responders and the 700 radio system and work efficiently from there? Sure did work great for the 2012 Carencro flood.... The fire Dept is limited on boats so why not pair them up?


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  #66  
Old 08-24-2016, 02:54 PM
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Ok why not organize them, pair them off with First responders and the 700 radio system and work efficiently from there? Sure did work great for the 2012 Carencro flood.... The fire Dept is limited on boats so why not pair them up?


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The civilians outnumbered the LEO's by a wide margin. It think you guys are thinking two days later when LEO's and the government showed up in big numbers. Sure that would work once everyone gets there and it's setup. You have people launching from various access points. Let's say I wanted to help in Denham Springs. I could launch on I-12, 190, Watson, closer to walker, Port Vincent coming up 16 until I ran into the water, river road, the list goes on and on. No way to coordinate that early on, not possible. Plus what happened was perfectly fine, peoples lives were saved everyone did a good job. The best job they could do. Some of us wouldn't want to work with the government maybe some of us would rather not deal with the government that some of us do not trust anyway. I brought a full U-Haul of supplies to my community. The government wanted them in one location I brought them to the church where I knew people in my community could get the supplies. I decided to get off my a s s and do something. I don't need the government telling me how to do it.
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  #67  
Old 08-24-2016, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Marque View Post
I am in no way disagreeing with you about people helping people out. But I think after the last few hurricanes and now this flood its obvious the state would benefit from some sort of auxiliary rescue organization. Like fire or police have. They are trained and responding to a disaster is no less dangerous. There are laws in place that prevent civilians from entering disaster areas. Those laws are primarily geared toward limiting the states liability because martial law usually applies to disaster areas. People really want to help each other out they shouldn't mind learning the basics of disaster response. I spend enough time on the water to realize that a large majority of people who own boats are truly clueless about safely operating them. Throw in the chaos of a natural disaster and you have a time bomb on your hands. I was in NOLA right after Katrina and it was chaos, there was no organization no coordination. There were 100 different organizations operating independently until they put Gen H in charge and from then on thing went soother. In the Marine Corps I responded to an earthquake in Turkey and it was bedlam because of the lack of command and control in the response, the government 1st responders and government officials just went home. 2000 marines basically did the job of 20,000 because there was no break down. Everyone has a job to do and does it. Logistically speaking the response to this flood was easy. There wasn't mass power outages, phone lines down or anything else like you have during a hurricane. When 1500 people dead in their houses and just as many on the verge of dying the only way to get them to safety is for the response to be organized. The only thing that maintains order in that situation is that there is no doubt there is someone in charge and on top of it. Other wise you get riots and looting. Use some common sense. If there is no one there to save someones life do you think I am in favor of letting them drown. I feel like I am arguing with women. Really every situation is different but the law has to be encompassing enough to address these problems and flexible at the same time. I am not Monday morning quarterbacking I just try to see more than one side to an argument. I am smart enough to realize I don't know everything.
I get your point also. Thank You for your service to our country btw. My point along with others is who funds this? Oh taxpayers do. How do you train/organize people for something that happens once in a decade? This isn't the military. It's not their job. People lost their job, their business and knowing the money they had was all they had to rebuild they still chose to go out, spend money and help. I'm not mad at you man. Just venting I guess. I live north so no flooding but I live south La. And the people. This was just more proof of why I love it so much
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  #68  
Old 08-24-2016, 03:06 PM
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I get your point also. Thank You for your service to our country btw. My point along with others is who funds this? Oh taxpayers do. How do you train/organize people for something that happens once in a decade? This isn't the military. It's not their job. People lost their job, their business and knowing the money they had was all they had to rebuild they still chose to go out, spend money and help. I'm not mad at you man. Just venting I guess. I live north so no flooding but I live south La. And the people. This was just more proof of why I love it so much
Well said we can all have a different point of view. Also thank you to those of you that serve and have served.
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  #69  
Old 08-24-2016, 03:21 PM
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  #70  
Old 08-24-2016, 03:26 PM
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The civilians outnumbered the LEO's by a wide margin. It think you guys are thinking two days later when LEO's and the government showed up in big numbers. Sure that would work once everyone gets there and it's setup. You have people launching from various access points. Let's say I wanted to help in Denham Springs. I could launch on I-12, 190, Watson, closer to walker, Port Vincent coming up 16 until I ran into the water, river road, the list goes on and on. No way to coordinate that early on, not possible. Plus what happened was perfectly fine, peoples lives were saved everyone did a good job. The best job they could do. Some of us wouldn't want to work with the government maybe some of us would rather not deal with the government that some of us do not trust anyway. I brought a full U-Haul of supplies to my community. The government wanted them in one location I brought them to the church where I knew people in my community could get the supplies. I decided to get off my a s s and do something. I don't need the government telling me how to do it.


I can't speak for BTR I happened to be wading Lafayette and Vermilion parishes as a first responder.... It can be done and organized.... But if you are cool going to another city and getting turned back from a restricted area that's you... Here is your opportunity to help across the state no questions asked...


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  #71  
Old 08-24-2016, 03:37 PM
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I can't speak for BTR I happened to be wading Lafayette and Vermilion parishes as a first responder.... It can be done and organized.... But if you are cool going to another city and getting turned back from a restricted area that's you... Here is your opportunity to help across the state no questions asked...


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BTR is home for me always will be. I wasn't turned away I was welcomed I brought help with me that's the point that just about everyone gets. You don't turn away help in a time of need or give people red tape to get through to get the help you need. Denham Springs was ground zero trust me they were happy to get any help they could get. Actually I don't know of anyone getting turned away in the entire state of Louisiana so I'm not sure where you are even coming from on this. I realize you want to turn people away with this crazy get a certificate idea that is being passed around. You guys just vote on it over there in Louisiana and see if it passes. If it passes cool, don't hold your breath. Most people don't want to slap a gift horse in the mouth. Not anyone with sense anyway.
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  #72  
Old 08-24-2016, 03:41 PM
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We can all go back and forth all day long on this.

The fact is ,god forbid this happen again..no one will one be stopped and asked "did you complete the XYZ bull**** annual training certification program" before they launch their boat to go out and save some people in a sudden massive disaster situation.

Which is why such a program is a waste of time and taxpayer money.
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  #73  
Old 08-24-2016, 03:44 PM
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BTR is home for me always will be. I wasn't turned away I was welcomed I brought help with me that's the point that just about everyone gets. You don't turn away help in a time of need or give people red tape to get through to get the help you need. Denham Springs was ground zero trust me they were happy to get any help they could get. Actually I don't know of anyone getting turned away in the entire state of Louisiana so I'm not sure where you are even coming from on this. I realize you want to turn people away with this crazy get a certificate idea that is being passed around. You guys just vote on it over there in Louisiana and see if it passes. If it passes cool, don't hold your breath. Most people don't want to slap a gift horse in the mouth. Not anyone with sense anyway.


Did this not happen during Katrina?
Let me ask you do you have any emergency management experience?
Do you have any time in the trenches responding to emergencies?
What we saw last week was crazy I'll give you that. Are we thankful for the citizen responders, yes. Was it annoying when citizens got in the way and pushed wakes that made the situation more dangerous? Yes. Would an organized force have been more beneficial? Yes.
Can this be done? Yes.
Is there a program already like this out there..... I'll give you a second and you can guess this one......



Yes!
https://www.fema.gov/community-emergency-response-teams

Wow this isn't hurting anything and amazingly they work! But if you were involved in regional disaster response you would know all of these things!


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  #74  
Old 08-24-2016, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Jcredeur View Post
Did this not happen during Katrina?
Let me ask you do you have any emergency management experience?
Do you have any time in the trenches responding to emergencies?
What we saw last week was crazy I'll give you that. Are we thankful for the citizen responders, yes. Was it annoying when citizens got in the way and pushed wakes that made the situation more dangerous? Yes. Would an organized force have been more beneficial? Yes.
Can this be done? Yes.
Is there a program already like this out there..... I'll give you a second and you can guess this one......



Yes!
https://www.fema.gov/community-emergency-response-teams

Wow this isn't hurting anything and amazingly they work! But if you were involved in regional disaster response you would know all of these things!


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ok so all the cajun navy guys will sit and wait while some FEMA blah blah response team gets there stuff together and waits on some bureaucrat to say its alright to go help folks.
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  #75  
Old 08-24-2016, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Jcredeur View Post
Did this not happen during Katrina?
Let me ask you do you have any emergency management experience?
Do you have any time in the trenches responding to emergencies?
What we saw last week was crazy I'll give you that. Are we thankful for the citizen responders, yes. Was it annoying when citizens got in the way and pushed wakes that made the situation more dangerous? Yes. Would an organized force have been more beneficial? Yes.
Can this be done? Yes.
Is there a program already like this out there..... I'll give you a second and you can guess this one......



Yes!
https://www.fema.gov/community-emergency-response-teams

Wow this isn't hurting anything and amazingly they work! But if you were involved in regional disaster response you would know all of these things!


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I'm not going to post my resume on here for you but yes let's just say I have more experience than most at leading people and companies through difficult situations.Yes I grew up in a low lying parish in South Louisiana. Yes we saved people and I say we because it was me and my family. Yes we would help sandbag, yes we would go get people and bring them to safety, yes we coordinated some of these efforts. yes yes yes yes yes yes yesIn general let's agree to disagree. I believe I'm overqualified to give my opinion on anything you will want to discuss with me and I will always think the certificate idea is one of the stupidest I have heard in a long time. Yes you will always think I'm some soft rich jerk from Texas that doesn't know how to run your small little group of whatever it is you do. Cool I'm good with you thinking that of me.So if we have another disaster I will do what I can to help the best way that I can .
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  #76  
Old 08-24-2016, 03:52 PM
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I'm done with this. Going to go coach youth football have a good evening. Sorry I got carried away its an emotional subject for me.
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  #77  
Old 08-24-2016, 04:04 PM
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ok so all the cajun navy guys will sit and wait while some FEMA blah blah response team gets there stuff together and waits on some bureaucrat to say its alright to go help folks.


Never said wait for a fema activation. But you did have 3 USAR teams in there pretty quick from across the state. What I am saying is that we can somehow through a civilian team organize the response. I never said this plan should turn around help. It has happened before and JP is trying to fix that problem. With some sort of organizational structure we could connect our OEP to these citizen responders for more efficient searches and not haphazard searches. We could organize it on a parish level through the OEP and resources could be allocated back and forth from needed parish to needed parish. With the statewide 700 megahertz radio system we would be interoperable through all agencies on the coordinated call channels. It would be a team effort well coordinated though all agencies just like we run a disaster now. We could even have a rep at the EOC helping with the overall incident action plan and incorporating the navy into a fully operational entity of the parish operations plan........

Ohh but what do I know I'm just a hit it hard from the yard volunteer....


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  #78  
Old 08-24-2016, 04:04 PM
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ARE Y'ALL BLIND? Perry basically saw the Cajun Navy being shutdown by Law Enforcement, not being allowed to launch their boats/access certain disaster areas. Perry wants to come up with something removes law enforcement from the equation and gives the "cajun navy" free access to help without running into problems with law enforcement.
OK, then make the law so that government employees go to jail if they stop good samaritans, but don't make extra requirements for the good samaritans.

Control government without making good neighbors jump through hoops.

Is that so hard to understand?
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  #79  
Old 08-24-2016, 04:10 PM
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The civilians outnumbered the LEO's by a wide margin. It think you guys are thinking two days later when LEO's and the government showed up in big numbers. Sure that would work once everyone gets there and it's setup. You have people launching from various access points. Let's say I wanted to help in Denham Springs. I could launch on I-12, 190, Watson, closer to walker, Port Vincent coming up 16 until I ran into the water, river road, the list goes on and on. No way to coordinate that early on, not possible. Plus what happened was perfectly fine, peoples lives were saved everyone did a good job. The best job they could do. Some of us wouldn't want to work with the government maybe some of us would rather not deal with the government that some of us do not trust anyway. I brought a full U-Haul of supplies to my community. The government wanted them in one location I brought them to the church where I knew people in my community could get the supplies. I decided to get off my a s s and do something. I don't need the government telling me how to do it.
Great viewpoint. I agree completely.
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  #80  
Old 08-24-2016, 04:14 PM
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OK, then make the law so that government employees go to jail if they stop good samaritans, but don't make extra requirements for the good samaritans.



Control government without making good neighbors jump through hoops.



Is that so hard to understand?


So the next big hazmat emergency we are to let Good Samaritans in without PPE bc they are just there to help!
I like this reasoning!


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