what y'all make of this?

[mr crab]

The article is a year old, but I just found it.http://www.nola.com/outdoors/index.s..._overfish.html

[Goooh]

I would like to see 10-20 year info on number of guides from dulac/dularge and over to the east, and number of chartered trips.

They call out increased technology for over fishing and making it easier to target fish, and link that to more difficult limits. Then post info that clearly shows most average folks don't catch limits. Did new technology enable us recreational anglers to "smash them" for a brief period of time?

The reason I would like to see guide numbers and tourism/charter numbers is because it would be nice to see how much additional fishing pressure has actually come from how heavily we have marketed the state as a destination to "rape" some fish.

Not knocking guides, but the overall harvest has had to increase in the last 10-20 years.

[hchol]

Bass fishermen have for years embraced a catch and release mentality that has had a tremendous positive impact on their fisheries. In fact, now you are looked down on if you show up at a freshwater boat launch with an ice chest full of large mouths. You might even get run off! I by no means like the goverenment telling me what I can and cant do, but if you run your fisheries into the ground you open the door for the Feds to come in and take control. Why do we saltwater fishermen have such a huge problem embracing a similar culture. I know trout are better eating than bass, they spawn different, and so on but it seems like the Bass guys figured out a LONG time ago that if you keep to many today there wont be any to catch tomorrow......pretty common sense if you ask me.

P.S. plenty of freshwater and also tarpon, bonefish, and permit guides make a great living practicing catch and release.

[MathGeek]

All the data I've seen suggests that current harvest levels are sustainable.

The 2011 data was influenced by a couple of significant non-harvest factors: The 2010 oil spill and hurricane Katrina in 2005.

Assuming that all fluctuations in the population structure are due to harvest pressure is bad science. Speckled trout are extremely prolific spawners and recruitment rates in Louisiana are very high due to the quantity and quality of spawning habitat.

Reducing the limit from 25 to 15 in Big Lake in 2005 has proven to be a mistake. Reducing the limit elsewhere in the state (based on current data) would also be a mistake.

I hope LDWF actually provides the data in future assessments of speckled trout stocks rather than saying "trust our conclusions" while wanting us to accept CCA-backed policy changes.

[MathGeek]

"Generally speaking, you'll see fewer big fish at first," he said. "It takes four years to grow a big (speckled trout). If we're cropping more fish at a smaller size, then obviously fewer of them will have the chance to get big."

This is the biggest lie in wildlife management today. Fast growth rates are more essential to producing big speckled trout than protecting younger fish. In most Gulf coast estuaries, plenty of speckled trout survive to 4, 5, and 6 years of age. FL and TX produce more fish over 10 lbs, not because of higher survival rates to the older ages, but because of higher growth rates in the estuaries that produce a lot of trophy trout.

If you want more trophy trout, it is more essential to protect their forage base.

[lsufish]

Originally Posted by hchol

Bass fishermen have for years embraced a catch and release mentality that has had a tremendous positive impact on their fisheries. In fact, now you are looked down on if you show up at a freshwater boat launch with an ice chest full of large mouths. You might even get run off! I by no means like the goverenment telling me what I can and cant do, but if you run your fisheries into the ground you open the door for the Feds to come in and take control. Why do we saltwater fishermen have such a huge problem embracing a similar culture. I know trout are better eating than bass, they spawn different, and so on but it seems like the Bass guys figured out a LONG time ago that if you keep to many today there wont be any to catch tomorrow......pretty common sense if you ask me.

P.S. plenty of freshwater and also tarpon, bonefish, and permit guides make a great living practicing catch and release.

I bet this one voted for Obama, green energy, and thinks his car will run on iced tea.

[mr crab]

Originally Posted by hchol

Bass fishermen have for years embraced a catch and release mentality that has had a tremendous positive impact on their fisheries. In fact, now you are looked down on if you show up at a freshwater boat launch with an ice chest full of large mouths. You might even get run off! I by no means like the goverenment telling me what I can and cant do, but if you run your fisheries into the ground you open the door for the Feds to come in and take control. Why do we saltwater fishermen have such a huge problem embracing a similar culture. I know trout are better eating than bass, they spawn different, and so on but it seems like the Bass guys figured out a LONG time ago that if you keep to many today there wont be any to catch tomorrow......pretty common sense if you ask me.

P.S. plenty of freshwater and also tarpon, bonefish, and permit guides make a great living practicing catch and release.

Feel free to release your fish if you want. I'll eat most of the ones I catch tho. I am not interested in buying my fish from h.e.b. just like I don't buy meat from them. My family takes great pride and expense in the fact that ALL our red meat , pork, fish, and most of our shell fish are personally harvested, butchered and cooked by us. That is a hunting and fishing heritage and lifestyle that my grandfather instilled in me as a young man. And one that was instilled in him by his father and so on. It is my responsibility to pass these values and and heritage on to my children. Yet this lifestyle is now considered "greedy" or labeled as a "game hog" or "resource raper". I will not condone this attitude. Why make me and my family feel guilty for harvesting what we will consume. Don't get me wrong.. it's not about "feeding my family" we spend far more money in our hunting and fishing pursuits than we would spend at a grocery store for the same amount of fish and meat. But that's not the point...this is our heritage. And when these limits on legal harvest keep decreasing it makes pursuing that lifestyle much less rewarding and will no doubt deter future generations from keeping those traditions alive. It's like I posted earlier about the snapper....lower the limit enough and most people won't be interested in spending the time or money to catch them. Now there is an overabundance of snapper that far less people than before are interested in pursuing and that overabundance is hurting other marine species(grey triggerfish by eating the eggs) You'd think we would have learned by the failure of that model. But the CCA continues to support lower and lower bag limits....Have you heard that the trout limit just dropped to 5 from Freeport to Brownsville? I see you are a fellow Texan...

[T-Bone]

Well said Mr. Crab. I second the motion.

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

"Generally speaking, you'll see fewer big fish at first," he said. "It takes four years to grow a big (speckled trout). If we're cropping more fish at a smaller size, then obviously fewer of them will have the chance to get big."

This is the biggest lie in wildlife management today. Fast growth rates are more essential to producing big speckled trout than protecting younger fish. In most Gulf coast estuaries, plenty of speckled trout survive to 4, 5, and 6 years of age. FL and TX produce more fish over 10 lbs, not because of higher survival rates to the older ages, but because of higher growth rates in the estuaries that produce a lot of trophy trout.

If you want more trophy trout, it is more essential to protect their forage base.

This article is old first off but MG this is getting real old and I can't bite my tongue much longer. You never had a shred of credibility in my mind but I think u just lost a little more.Jerald Horst has forgotten more than most of us will ever know about fish, he has written numerous textbooks and other field guides for fishes. This is what he did and still does for a living. I think most people would take the word of a leading
fisheries biologist on any subject regarding fish populations over a physicist pretending to be one. It would behoove you to read a book on principles of ecology (not Wikipedia). Wildlife and fisheries and the mgmt of them is far from an exact science and it's often not just one thing that is the causal agent but a multitude of factors working together. So the use of the word 'proof' or 'proven' or any phrase containing those words are rarely used when dealing with wild animals (although you have used those words repeatedly in your rants). This isn't an exact science like physics.

"This is the biggest lie in wildlife management today". Lord have mercy :*****:

A physicist with all the answers to our fisheries issues. Knows more than the people who wrote the textbooks on the subject haha

[Fishdok]

Originally Posted by hchol

Bass fishermen have for years embraced a catch and release mentality that has had a tremendous positive impact on their fisheries. In fact, now you are looked down on if you show up at a freshwater boat launch with an ice chest full of large mouths. You might even get run off! I by no means like the goverenment telling me what I can and cant do, but if you run your fisheries into the ground you open the door for the Feds to come in and take control. Why do we saltwater fishermen have such a huge problem embracing a similar culture. I know trout are better eating than bass, they spawn different, and so on but it seems like the Bass guys figured out a LONG time ago that if you keep to many today there wont be any to catch tomorrow......pretty common sense if you ask me.

P.S. plenty of freshwater and also tarpon, bonefish, and permit guides make a great living practicing catch and release.

I believe they are realizing that the catch n release of all bass is a mistake as seen with several lakes no longer producing quality fish sec to being overpopulated by lil dinks.

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by Fishdok

I believe they are realizing that the catch n release of all bass is a mistake as seen with several lakes no longer producing quality fish sec to being overpopulated by lil dinks.

Correct, the original purpose of slot limits was to allow people to take fish from the population and leave some as well. It all went south when folks were not keeping anything at all.
You have to remove fish from the population or else they font work Happens in private ponds often , the owner doesn't want to remove any fish and like u say before long the entire pond us overran with dinks

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Duck Butter

This article is old first off but MG this is getting real old and I can't bite my tongue much longer. ... I think most people would take the word of a leading
fisheries biologist on any subject regarding fish populations over a physicist pretending to be one. It would behoove you to read a book on principles of ecology (not Wikipedia).

A physicist with all the answers to our fisheries issues.

I've never claimed to have all the answers, but my biggest strength as a scientist has always been counting data as more important than expert opinions.

My claims in the above post are well supported by the data in Stephen Bortone's book, "Biology of the Spotted Seatrout." I have access to many books and publications in fisheries biology, and I've spent an average of 10-20 hours per week over the past several years reading the literature on fisheries science.

My PhD is in fact in Physics, but my first laboratory job was in fisheries science at the LSU aquaculture facility under Dr. Dudley Culley. Scientists with PhDs in the physical sciences have a long history of making important contributions in biology. Perhaps you have heard of Francis Crick and Louis Pasteur?

I can't claim any discoveries rivaling theirs, but I have managed meaningful contributions to over a dozen scholarly papers in fisheries over the past few years. All of our papers have been well-received and the most severe criticism has been from other authors who we have embarrassed by pointing out their published math errors. We commonly receive positive feedback from numerous, well-recognized names in fisheries science for our published contributions. One state DNR in the mid-west recently wrote to us because they are applying a new analysis technique we developed to assist them with addressing a challenging management problem.

Please, if you take issue with my claims on spotted seatrout, try and support your position with data rather than just claiming your expert is smarter than me. Perhaps he is smarter, but unless he can cite data to support his position, he might still be wrong.

That's how science works. Science favors the position supported with data, not the "smartest" expert.

[noodle creek]

Originally Posted by hchol

Bass fishermen have for years embraced a catch and release mentality that has had a tremendous positive impact on their fisheries. In fact, now you are looked down on if you show up at a freshwater boat launch with an ice chest full of large mouths. You might even get run off! I by no means like the goverenment telling me what I can and cant do, but if you run your fisheries into the ground you open the door for the Feds to come in and take control. Why do we saltwater fishermen have such a huge problem embracing a similar culture. I know trout are better eating than bass, they spawn different, and so on but it seems like the Bass guys figured out a LONG time ago that if you keep to many today there wont be any to catch tomorrow......pretty common sense if you ask me.

P.S. plenty of freshwater and also tarpon, bonefish, and permit guides make a great living practicing catch and release.

Our saltwater estuaries are open to the gulf of mexico. Catching limits and keeping them isn't going to run down populations. Many other factors will kill our fish populations before over fishing will.

Tarpon, permit, and bonefish do not compare to trout, redfish, and flounder.

[HenryBoy]

Originally Posted by hchol

Bass fishermen have for years embraced a catch and release mentality that has had a tremendous positive impact on their fisheries. In fact, now you are looked down on if you show up at a freshwater boat launch with an ice chest full of large mouths. You might even get run off! I by no means like the goverenment telling me what I can and cant do, but if you run your fisheries into the ground you open the door for the Feds to come in and take control. Why do we saltwater fishermen have such a huge problem embracing a similar culture. I know trout are better eating than bass, they spawn different, and so on but it seems like the Bass guys figured out a LONG time ago that if you keep to many today there wont be any to catch tomorrow......pretty common sense if you ask me.

P.S. plenty of freshwater and also tarpon, bonefish, and permit guides make a great living practicing catch and release.

I tell you what........

I pursue trophy fish in both fresh and saltwater - so maybe I can bring some street cred to this conversation. Now I don't have a degree in fish management, but I can say the trophy fish just aren't what they use to be.........both Salt and Fresh.........in Lousiana and Texas. I blame Obama, the umbrella rig, myself, the new trout limits and these new fish finders.

And for this guy....... I fish trophies numero uno and I fish for food numero dos. So you (Mr. Office fisherman) can eat a topwater with your new limit proposal.

Been windy lately.......but here are few trophies for 2014.

[MathGeek]

Three of Louisiana's all time top ten speckled trout were caught in Big Lake between 1997 and 2004 (before the limit change from 15 to 25).

The limit change was based on the idea that preserving more younger trout would lead to more trout reaching older ages thus producing more trophy trout.

It did not work. Big Lake has not had a single additional entry into Louisiana's top ten specks since the limit change in 2005. Most tournaments and guides also report fewer trophy trout since 2005.

Having good numbers of 4, 5, and 6 year old specks is no guarantee of a trophy fishery. Those fish need to be growing fast enough to reach 22" total length by age 4. This will put them into a length class big enough to eat dinks to both control the population of younger fish (so younger fish grow fast) and to maintain high growth rates over their 5th and 6th winters when smaller forage becomes less abundant.

[Reefman]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Big Lake has not had a single additional entry into Louisiana's top ten specks since the limit change in 2005. Most tournaments and guides also report fewer trophy trout since 2005.

Fact is there were no trout caught in the last nine years from any where in the State that made the top 10. This is not just a BL problem.

[keakar]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

"Generally speaking, you'll see fewer big fish at first," he said. "It takes four years to grow a big (speckled trout). If we're cropping more fish at a smaller size, then obviously fewer of them will have the chance to get big."

This is the biggest lie in wildlife management today. Fast growth rates are more essential to producing big speckled trout than protecting younger fish. In most Gulf coast estuaries, plenty of speckled trout survive to 4, 5, and 6 years of age. FL and TX produce more fish over 10 lbs, not because of higher survival rates to the older ages, but because of higher growth rates in the estuaries that produce a lot of trophy trout.

If you want more trophy trout, it is more essential to protect their forage base.

exactly and if you reduce limits you will have even less big fish because there wont be enough food for them to grow big.

instead of talking limits they should be talking increasing food stocks and creating more food supply.

this old article has been regurgitated every few years by those who want to limit everyone to 5 or 10 specks to be the same as other states for no reason at all just because it makes em feel good to "help the environment".

even bob marshal was spewing this load of manure in the paper and online justifying it solely on the basis that nobody is taking pictures with really big trout anymore. what a load of hooey.

science says if we take more fish out of the water then the ones left will get bigger because they will have an abundant food supply for them to grow. but NOBODY will promote increasing limits but everyone always wants to reduce limits no matter if it helps or not.

DO WHAT THE SCIENCE SAYS YOU NEED TO DO - that's all that is needed

[lsuriot]

Louisiana’s Top 10 Speckled Trout
Weight Angler Location Date
1. 12.38 Leon Mattes Lake Hermitage May, 1950
2. 11.99 Kenneth Kreeger Lake Pontchartrain Jan. 1999
3. 11.24 Jason Troullier Rigolets (Lake Borgne) Sept., 1999
4. 11.16 Timothy Mahoney, II Calcasieu Lake May, 2002
5. 10.81 Kevin Galley Calcasieu Lake May, 1997
6. 10.75 Randolph D. Green Sandy Point Aug. 1970
7. 10.70 Barry Terrell Calcasieu Lake May, 2004
8. 10.65 Jason Ellender Sabine Lake March, 2013
9. 10.63 John Kaparis Unknown May, 1979
10. 10.50 Dudley Vandenborre, Jr. Lake Pontchartrain April, 2002
10. 10.50 Ed Sexton Venice April, 2000

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by keakar

instead of talking limits they should be talking increasing food stocks and creating more food

Perhaps CCA could fund some of those automatic feeders and place them out all over the lake or maybe me of the CCA bigwigs knows one of the owners of L'auberge and can convince him to get the cook staff to throw out the leftovers from the buffet into the lake

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by lsuriot

Louisiana’s Top 10 Speckled Trout
Weight Angler Location Date
1. 12.38 Leon Mattes Lake Hermitage May, 1950
2. 11.99 Kenneth Kreeger Lake Pontchartrain Jan. 1999
3. 11.24 Jason Troullier Rigolets (Lake Borgne) Sept., 1999
4. 11.16 Timothy Mahoney, II Calcasieu Lake May, 2002
5. 10.81 Kevin Galley Calcasieu Lake May, 1997
6. 10.75 Randolph D. Green Sandy Point Aug. 1970
7. 10.70 Barry Terrell Calcasieu Lake May, 2004
8. 10.65 Jason Ellender Sabine Lake March, 2013
9. 10.63 John Kaparis Unknown May, 1979
10. 10.50 Dudley Vandenborre, Jr. Lake Pontchartrain April, 2002
10. 10.50 Ed Sexton Venice April, 2000

Doesn't count,
there aren't any wiers on sabine