Answering the Libertarian argument for drug legalization

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Clampy

1. Cannabis use is associated with risky sexual behavior in teens.

2. Cannabis use impairs motor control.

3. Nearly every recreational drug represents some degree of impairment when dealing with unexpected emergencies.


No need to debunk these. You said it yourself. Straw man arguments.

Really are these the reasons we need to put other wise law abiding citizens in a cage ?

1. Being a teenager is what causes risky sexual behavior

2. that's the point.

3. And? Far less of a risk than any and I mean ANY other intoxicating substance on earth.

No one is tripping on weed. Believe me I tried. Once you bake it into something and eat it the liver Metabolizes it into a different substance called 11 hydroxy metabolite which is WAY stronger than smoked cannabis and that doesn't make you trip. Closed eye visuals maybe.

Dude i have read that study that says three out of four kids get their marijuana from dispensaries.
And that's all they did was ask them if the ever used medical pot.

From experience I can tell you dealers use " medical" as a sales pitch. So when the kid gets weed from a dealer and he has told him that it was medical Or from a dispensary Of course that's how he is answering the survey.

You could have saved time and said.


" Drugs are bad Mmmmmm Kay !"

Somehow, I doubt your inability to follow careful reasoning, represent it accurately in your reply, or formulate any coherent reply based on reason and evidence are winning over many neutral observers.

You have managed to remind me of Cliff's buffalo theory from Cheer's:

Cliff expounds his "Buffalo Theory" to Norm:

“Well, you see, Norm, it’s like this. A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it’s the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members.

In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Now, as we know, excessive intake of alcohol kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine.

And that, Norm, is why you always feel smarter after a few beers.”

And that, Clampy, is why you always feel smarter after smoking dope!

[AceArcher]

And perhaps to take people's mind of things, here is a link to a short music video about the power of dedication and purpose, It's a true story.

You have to actually watch the video to understand as the song is just kind of repetitive / dance... but it does a good job of emphasizing the wow parts of the video.

[Clampy]

http://truthsquad.tv/?p=2241. No this is why.

[Clampy]

Cannabis actually has Neuroprotective qualities unlike alcohol. Even the gov knows. That's why they got the patent.

[Clampy]

To much science to go through. 24000 per reviewed studies. Science is on my side. Have fun being mad in a few years when it's legal MG.
peace I'm out.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Clampy

Cannabis actually has Neuroprotective qualities unlike alcohol.

Yep, THC protects the brain against overwork!

The neuroprotective qualities are especially effective protection against math and physics.

Originally Posted by Clampy

To much science to go through. 24000 per reviewed studies. Science is on my side. Have fun being mad in a few years when it's legal MG.
peace I'm out.

You're right because you are going to win, and you're going to win because you are right.

Can anyone name this logical fallacy?

One can always fake some science to drive political agendas (global warming anyone?)

It is much easier to fake the foolish voters in California and Colorado.

Louisiana voters are smarter than that.

[MathGeek]

"In November, Colorado voted to legalize the recreational use of marijuana. Currently, only Colorado residents can purchase marijuana in the state. But they may open it up to nonresidents too. The new state slogan is 'Come for the legal marijuana, stay because you forgot to leave.'" –Jimmy Kimmel

"Several states are now looking into the possibility of taxing marijuana as a source of revenue. That is so typical of the government, isn't it? Trying to squeeze blood from a stoner." –Jay Leno

"According to a new book coming out by a Pulitzer Prize-winning author, apparently when he was in high school, President Obama smoked large amounts of marijuana. You know what that means? He could be our first green president." –Jay Leno

"The White House admitted that Vice President Biden's endorsement of gay marriage forced him to come out in favor of it. So in a related story millions of Americans are trying to get Biden hooked on pot." –Conan O'Brien

"Some Democrats in Congress are now trying to change the marijuana laws, making it legal so it can be taxed and increase revenue. Is that what the government's come down to now? We're selling drugs to pay off our debts? When did Uncle Sam become Scarface?" –Jay Leno

"Yesterday, Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper signed an amendment that officially legalized marijuana in the state. Stoners took a moment to thank Governor Hickenlooper — then they spent a few hours just saying the word 'Hickenlooper.'" –Jimmy Fallon

"The White House softball team played the pro-marijuana lobbyists' team and lost 25-3. Still no word yet on which side President Obama played for." –Jay Leno

“A phone survey found 70 percent of Americans support legalizing marijuana. I can’t believe that many marijuana supporters managed to answer the phone.” –Craig Ferguson

"Today is 4/20. This is like national pot day. And people celebrate all over the world. Although, I must say, the Senate did not celebrate this by smoking joints, for two reasons. One, it would be against protocol. And two, it would mean passing something." –Bill Maher

“Stoners just got a powerful new ally in the fight to legalize marijuana — conservative broadcaster Pat Robertson. He said it’s time to ‘you know, legalize it, tax it, and keep it away from Mel Gibson.’” –Craig Ferguson

“Today, Snoop Dog endorsed Ron Paul for president. Snoop said he likes Paul’s positions on everything from legalizing pot ... to legalizing pot.” –Conan O'Brien

"Cannabis always made me paranoid; I felt like people were watching me. And now I'm sober, and I've got this talk show in the middle of the night on CBS, and I now know that no one is watching me." –Craig Ferguson

"Obama was heckled by someone who said, 'Don't forget about medical marijuana.' The Secret Service has narrowed the suspects down to everyone in L.A." –Conan O'Brien

"Ron Paul is in favor of letting states legalize marijuana, prostitution, and cocaine. So even if he doesn't win, that's going to be one heck of an election night party." –Jay Leno

"The White House announced that it has rejected several petitions to legalize marijuana. They say it has nothing to do with politics. It's just that they can't accept a petition that was written on a crumpled up Funyuns bag." –Jimmy Fallon

"San Francisco hosted the first medical marijuana job fair. The keynote speech was titled, 'Jobs and How to Avoid Getting One.'" –Jay Leno

"According to the latest reports, medical marijuana sales in this country are now approaching $2 billion a year. I had no idea that so many people had glaucoma. Apparently this is an epidemic." –Jay Leno

"President Obama answered questions on YouTube today. He was asked 7,500 times about legalizing marijuana. And that was just from Chad in Portland." –Conan O'Brien

"California had its first medical marijuana job fair. Over 2 million people meant to show up." –Conan O'Brien

"A hydroponic marijuana store is being opened in California and is being called 'The Wal-Mart of Weed.' It's like a regular Wal-Mart except the greeter says, "Dude, have you seen Greg?" –Conan O'Brien

"A new report says there has been a sharp increase in the use of marijuana over the last year. Maybe that explains the sharp increase in unemployment over the last year." –Jimmy Kimmel

"Medical marijuana users are now lobbying for the right to carry firearms. Because no one is a better shot than a stoned old man with glaucoma." –Conan O'Brien

"Los Angeles residents are going to vote on a tax on anything sold in a medical marijuana dispensary. If the measure passes the city could be solvent within 45 minutes." –Conan O'Brien

"California Marijuana farmers are worried that radiation from Japan could affect their crops. Or maybe for some strange reason they're just being paranoid." –Conan O'Brien

"Marijuana plants were found near bin Laden's compound, which explains why bin Laden's last words were, 'Dude... '" –Conan O'Brien

"Arizona just became the 15th state to approve medical marijuana. So I give it three days before they stop caring about the whole immigration thing." –Jimmy Fallon

"Prop 19, the California proposition to legalize marijuana lost. The proponents are all so sad today. If only there were some substance that could make them laugh again." –Jimmy Kimmel

"Thousands of marijuana enthusiasts went to the polls this morning in California to support Prop 19. Unfortunately, the election was the day before." –Jimmy Kimmel

"California will vote on legalizing marijuana on Tuesday. So thousands of stoners will be at the polls saying, "Dude, just pass it ... and now let's go in and vote on Prop 19." –Jimmy Fallon

"In three weeks Californians will vote on whether to legalize marijuana. Which means that three weeks and one day from now thousands of stoners will say, "Oh crap, that was yesterday?" –Jimmy Fallon

"The first ads for medical marijuana have started airing on television in California. The ads are quite expensive. It costs a lot of money to buy 30 seconds during 'Spongebob Squarepants.'" –Craig Ferguson

"Well, folks, Sarah Palin has admitted she tried marijuana several years ago, but she did not like it. She said it distorted her perceptions, impaired her thinking, and she's hoping that the effects will eventually wear off." –Jay Leno

"Sarah Palin has revealed she has tried marijuana, but she did not like it. You know, it's amazing: 200 million Americans have smoked marijuana. The only ones who don't like it seem to be elected officials. Ever notice that?" –Jay Leno

"It seems The Journal of Neurology reports that the longer you smoke, the less likely you are to develop Parkinson's disease. So what are they telling us? Follow me guys. Remember, a couple of months ago, doctors said drinking a glass of alcohol every day was good for your heart. Smoking prevents Parkinson's disease. Marijuana is good for glaucoma. Sex is good for your prostate. You know, screw health care. Let's party!" –Jay Leno

"Big political news out of New Jersey lately. The New Jersey Senate just approved a bill to legalize medical marijuana, a week after New Jersey voted not to allow gay marriage, which means the New Jersey Senate was like, 'Gay people getting married? What are you, like, high? No? Well, let's get high then.'" –Jimmy Fallon

"Earlier this week — this is crazy — the country's first marijuana cafe opened up, which not only sells medical marijuana, but also has a restaurant where customers can eat. In a related story, the recession is over." –Conan O'Brien

"The AMA is urging the Federal Government not to classify marijuana as a dangerous drug and do more research. That's what they said. It's a big story, yeah. Yeah, that request came not only from the AMA but also from KFC." –Conan O'Brien

"Yesterday, voters in the state of Maine voted no to gay marriage, but yes to medical marijuana. That's right, people in Maine believe marriage should be a sacred institution between a really stoned man and a really stoned woman." –Conan O'Brien

"And under the new guidelines issued by the Obama Administration, Federal agents will not pursue pot-smoking patients in states that allow medical marijuana. This new policy is called 'Don't Ask, Don't -- What Was I Talking About?'" --Jay Leno

"Here in California, we have no money. Our budget situation is a mess. And when you have no money, what do you do? You sell drugs, right? A state representative from San Francisco just introduced a bill that would legalize marijuana. He claims it would raise almost $1.5 billion a year for the state in taxes, and another $3 billion in Cheeto sales." --Jimmy Kimmel

"This is interesting. Researchers have found that people who drive drunk are more dangerous on the road than drivers who are high on marijuana. Don't get too excited. It's mostly because the drivers using marijuana are just sitting in the Taco Bell drive-through." --Jimmy Fallon

"The Illinois Senate passed a bill on Wednesday to legalize medical marijuana. The bill was passed after the state senator said, 'Come on, dude, pass it. Come on.'" --Jimmy Fallon

"Actually, the University of California says they may start a marijuana research center. Really? I thought the University of California was a marijuana research center." --Jay Leno

"And there are a lot of new taxes coming. California state legislators want to solve our state's giant deficit by taxing marijuana. Meanwhile, Oregon wants to increase a tax on beer, while New York wants to tax Internet porn. You know what this means? By the end of spring break, this whole thing could be paid for." --Jay Leno

:rotf l:

[Clampy]

Hilarious.

[Montauk17]

Originally Posted by Clampy

The statement about "Hallucinating" on weed shows you really have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Marijuana.

Must have been some of dat cripdacronnakillalight....weed ain't no drug there is only 3 side effects happy,hungry,and sleepy. But if you take too many advil that will be your last headache.

[Duck Butter]

5 pages on WEED!

The question is 'how would legalization affect you?'

Will not affect me one bit

Louisiana is the very last state that would legalize the stuff anyways, well maybe Texas

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Duck Butter

5 pages on WEED!

The question is 'how would legalization affect you?'

Will not affect me one bit

Louisiana is the very last state that would legalize the stuff anyways, well maybe Texas

As a parent, the legalization of cannabis would make it more challenging to raise drug-free children.

As a teacher, more widely available cannabis would make teaching college Calculus and Physics much more challenging. Working at an institution with random drug testing of students would be a definite advantage. Maintaining a level of learning while drug use is on the rise can easily become a bricks without straw situation.

As a citizen, I am concerned about the continued dumbing down of American education, which I see as accelerating rapidly if drug use increases among high school and college students. I do not envision drug users being better informed voters, better able to apply Constitutional principles to practical questions, or more likely to be givers rather than takers. I also do not foresee more intelligent or thoughtful jury decisions.

As a driver, I am concerned that drug legalization will increase the risks of chemically challenged drivers on the road.

As a consumer of medical insurance, I am concerned that drug legalization will drive up my costs.

As a supporter of the right to keep and bear arms, I am concerned that drug legalization will lead to more careless use of firearms by gun owners who are using drugs, and that these incidents will be manipulated to infringe on the rights of drug-free gun owners.

As a former DoD civilian, I am concerned that drug legalization will hinder the recruitment and retention of a drug free fighting force.

As an angler, I do not think the legalization of drugs for oil field and chemical industry workers will reduce the chances of oil spills and other environmental disasters.

As a law abiding resident, I am concerned that drug legalization will hinder the recruitment and retention of drug free law enforcement officers.

The expanded use of recreational and performance enhancing drugs during my lifetime has not been a blessing to my country. As a father, I do not see how legalizing drugs for recreational and performance enhancing uses will leave a better country for my children or my grandchildren.

God bless Louisiana.

God bless Texas.

May they pry our drug laws out of our cold, dead fingers.

[Duck Butter]

[quote=MathGeek;618331]As a parent, the legalization of cannabis would make it more challenging to raise drug-free children.

As a teacher, more widely available cannabis would make teaching college Calculus and Physics much more challenging. Working at an institution with random drug testing of students would be a definite advantage. Maintaining a level of learning while drug use is on the rise can easily become a bricks without straw situation.

PCR (Polymerase Chain Reaction) is one of the biggest scientific discoveries in our lifetime. It made DNA fingerprinting a very simple process. It completely revolutionized science, and it gave us shows like CSI We can go in with a strand of hair or whatever and in a few hours you can find out all kinds of things about a person by this very process. The whole process was founded by a fellow who was wait for it wait for it - tripping on LSD Thats a whole different egg to crack there, but my physics and mathematics profs in college had to be potheads

As a citizen, I am concerned about the continued dumbing down of American education, which I see as accelerating rapidly if drug use increases among high school and college students. I do not envision drug users being better informed voters, better able to apply Constitutional principles to practical questions, or more likely to be givers rather than takers. I also do not foresee more intelligent or thoughtful jury decisions.

Pot has nothing to do with this, its the ease of getting information and the loss of actually wanting to learn, now everything is right there for us in the palm of our hand. As someone once said 'we have every bit of information right there in the palm of our hand, yet all day we just want to look at funny pics of cats'

As a driver, I am concerned that drug legalization will increase the risks of chemically challenged drivers on the road.

"Man that guy was so stoned, he drove off the road and wrecked his car" - said no one ever
Alcohol is a drug and WAY much more dangerous than pot

As a consumer of medical insurance, I am concerned that drug legalization will drive up my costs.

There could be an argument there about McDonalds also. Fat people are driving it up as well

As a supporter of the right to keep and bear arms, I am concerned that drug legalization will lead to more careless use of firearms by gun owners who are using drugs, and that these incidents will be manipulated to infringe on the rights of drug-free gun owners.

Nothing is going to happen to your 2nd amendment. We just saw this with that ammo and gun craze.

As a former DoD civilian, I am concerned that drug legalization will hinder the recruitment and retention of a drug free fighting force.

As an Afghanistan vet, I will tell you that there are plenty of drug users in the US Army

As an angler, I do not think the legalization of drugs for oil field and chemical industry workers will

reduce the chances of oil spills and other environmental disasters.

Oilfield can make their own rules, you can't drink alcohol on an oil rig even though its LEGAL. I would also venture to say there are MANY drug users in the oilfield Methheads

As a law abiding resident, I am concerned that drug legalization will hinder the recruitment and retention of drug free law enforcement officers.

Just because something is legal, doesn't mean people will do it. There are many people who don't drink even though its legal, there are many people who don't smoke cigarettes even though its legal

The expanded use of recreational and performance enhancing drugs during my lifetime has not been a blessing to my country. As a father, I do not see how legalizing drugs for recreational and performance enhancing uses will leave a better country for my children or my grandchildren.

Its not going to be a blessing, but to me there are way bigger fish to fry than worry about this, and Louisiana will be the very last one to do this IF in fact it does happen. I don't foresee it happening in this decade though, so why are we even discussing this



I successfully multi-quoted yay me!

[Montauk17]

Ron Paul: Legalize all drugs - YouTube

Ron Paul: Legalize all drugs - YouTube

[Goooh]

MG, I'm pretty confident that given the real side effects and threats of pot, if pot had been legal your entire life and they were pushing for a ban as opposed to legalization, your argument would be totally opposite - it would be an absolute infringement on civil liberties.

Since you are accustomed to it being illegal, and have been indoctrinated to believe that it is a horrible drug, having it remain illegal doesn't strike you as a threat to liberty.

The stuff is no more dangerous to others as the junk in the drive through, not is it any more of a threat to our health care costs.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Duck Butter

... but to me there are way bigger fish to fry than worry about this, and Louisiana will be the very last one to do this IF in fact it does happen. I don't foresee it happening in this decade though, so why are we even discussing this

I successfully multi-quoted yay me!

Congrats on the multi-quote.

When I accepted a position in as a DoD civilian in Colorado Springs in 2009 (moving from Michigan), my wife and I assessed Colorado as a safe place to live and raise children, largely free from the political correctness and insanity that plagued California and Michigan, and with much recommending it in terms of RKBA, family values, great hunting and fishing, good public schools, etc.

Between 2009 and 2013, we learned that Colorado is on the fast track following California into the abyss. The public schools are out of control in allowing every sort of misbehavior (drugs, cheating, sex, booze, you name it), the local governments regard the US Constitution as obstructing their agendas and use it for toilet paper, the legislature is on the warpath against RKBA, and the voting public legalized marijuana.

If allowed, Louisiana will be slower than most states to legalize cannabis and other dangerous substances. But all three branches of the Federal government are out of control. Those pushing libertine agendas will at first use "states rights" arguments to legalize destructive behaviors in a few states. Next, their strategy shifts to impose legalization of these same destructive behaviors in all 50 states through the abuse of Federal power. It is quite conceivable that within my lifetime, abuse of Federal power may be used for force drug legalization on all 50 states.

[Montauk17]

Originally Posted by Goooh

MG, I'm pretty confident that given the real side effects and threats of pot, if pot had been legal your entire life and they were pushing for a ban as opposed to legalization, your argument would be totally opposite - it would be an absolute infringement on civil liberties.

Since you are accustomed to it being illegal, and have been indoctrinated to believe that it is a horrible drug, having it remain illegal doesn't strike you as a threat to liberty.

The stuff is no more dangerous to others as the junk in the drive through, not is it any more of a threat to our health care costs.

X2...MG,can you tell me your opinion on why hemp is illegal? It has no effects like weed and the list of products that can be made from it is almost endless.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Goooh

MG, I'm pretty confident that given the real side effects and threats of pot, if pot had been legal your entire life and they were pushing for a ban as opposed to legalization, your argument would be totally opposite - it would be an absolute infringement on civil liberties.

Since you are accustomed to it being illegal, and have been indoctrinated to believe that it is a horrible drug, having it remain illegal doesn't strike you as a threat to liberty.

The stuff is no more dangerous to others as the junk in the drive through, not is it any more of a threat to our health care costs.

I have much more personal experience and direct evidence than you realize with the ability of cannabis and other drugs to ruin people's lives.

If I had anything approaching my experience and evidence regarding the ability of super-sized fries and big macs to ruin lives like recreational drugs, I'd be leading the charge to regulate McDonalds.

Drugs destroy lives.

[Montauk17]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

I have much more personal experience and direct evidence than you realize with the ability of cannabis and other drugs to ruin people's lives.

If I had anything approaching my experience and evidence regarding the ability of super-sized fries and big macs to ruin lives like recreational drugs, I'd be leading the charge to regulate McDonalds.

Drugs destroy lives.

Why not go after the pharmaceutical drug company's? I have seen it first hand how the system gets abused and MILLIONS of people are addicted to these drugs. Most of them have horrible side effects.

[Goooh]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

I have much more personal experience and direct evidence than you realize with the ability of cannabis and other drugs to ruin people's lives.

If I had anything approaching my experience and evidence regarding the ability of super-sized fries and big macs to ruin lives like recreational drugs, I'd be leading the charge to regulate McDonalds.

Drugs destroy lives.

People's inability to regulate and take responsibility for their consumption is what ruins lives. Just like people kill people, not guns. Your argument is one thy furthers the nanny state, basically people shouldn't be responsible for their poor decisions. We are talking marijuana here, not heroin. And pot doesn't lead to heroin, being a dumba** with no self control leads to heroin.

You had kids in your class that would have been flunkies anyway, don't blame pot. I smoked pot recreationally and am wound pretty dang tight, and am doing well for myself. Do I still smoke? No. Can I every now and then and still maintain my lifestyle? Absolutely!

Tell me all about how many lives alcohol has ruined. Surely not more than pot?????? Yes, next question.

[Duck Butter]

[quote=MathGeek;618347]Congrats on the multi-quote.

When I accepted a position in as a DoD civilian in Colorado Springs in 2009 (moving from Michigan), my wife and I assessed Colorado as a safe place to live and raise children, largely free from the political correctness and insanity that plagued California and Michigan, and with much recommending it in terms of RKBA, family values, great hunting and fishing, good public schools, etc.

Colorada is full of hippies, and most hippies smoke pot

Colorado is on the fast track following California into the abyss. The public schools are out of control in allowing every sort of misbehavior (drugs, cheating, sex, booze, you name it),

Have you seen some of Louisiana's public schools? This is an everyday occurence, where I went to junior high in Monroe was a war zone. Monroe City school teachers up there get paid higher than Oua****a Parish teachers and they jokingly refer to it as 'combat pay' and that is all over the state