Do You Think Someone::::::>

["W"]

Some will never face the face that the 15 trout limit was an epic FAIL

Now we see it in plain day light

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by "W"

Some will never face the face that the 15 trout limit was an epic FAIL

Now we see it in plain day light

There is something in place right now to reduce the limit and add size restrictions to CRAPPIE on a couple lakes in N La, they want trophy crappie! This has been tried over and over and the same results happen, the fish overpopulate and their growth is stunted. I have argued ad nausea about it, yet people keep saying well it can't hurt, lets try it, when its been tried and it DOES hurt, it does the opposite. The biggest proponent of the restrictions who used to call me all kinds of names finally talked to some cat over in Alabama who had his masters in crappie mgmt or something and dude did a complete 180, now tries to get everyone to keep EVERY crappie they catch It just takes some people a little longer to come around, and no matter what evidence you show people from past studies, to wildlife professionals opinions, even to people that stock ponds that will not even sell you crappie because they will overpopulate a pond, they will not listen.

As you can tell I am not a fan of designating places as 'trophy fisheries' because they got that way without the 'help' of some specific management plan, and once people name something a trophy lake, politics get involved and people don't listen to the professionals and want to CHANGE things even though there is nothing wrong with them, then the lakes start going downhill This trophy deer mentality is killing the fun out of deer hunting for me. Deer hunters are trying to push legislation for antler restrictions on public land even though study after study after study suggests that they do not work in all settings. It is getting ridiculous in that we can't just go out and catch or shoot something without having to read thru 5 pages of regulations to make sure we can keep it to eat

[cajunwader]

Bill Garret, a close friend, of Houston told me that in April of 2002 that he caught and released a 11 1/4 lb trout on the East Shoreline. The week before he caught two 10 lb class trout on the same trip. He had them both mounted together on a table mount. He chose to release the 11 pounder and not kill another big fish. Bill targets big trout and will wade all day for 1 bite...


He told me he thought the Lake record was over 12 lbs. He was thinking about the state record from Ponchartrain. True, its a fish story with no proof. I know a new state record trout resides in Big Lake at this time. It will come from Feb thru the first full moon in May. After that they are all spawned out, skinny, and eel like.


Big Lake does not have the numbers of big trout that in the past due to fishing pressure and anglers killed way to many big trout in the past. It will eventually take a toll. Keeping 6 to 8 lb trout trout will make it more difficult for the 9 & 10 lb sows to show in any great numbers. Thats my 2 cents worth... Good Fishin!!!

[noodle creek]

Has anyone tagged a 7lb plus trout that was ever caught again? Always wondered that but I've never really heard anyone talk about it.

[cajunwader]

In the winter when the big trout gang up we repeatedly catch and release the same trout over and over again from the same stretch of shoreline.

Its quite evident from the hook marks on the trouts mouth, head, and gill plates.

It may be the next day or two later.

I am sure they all do not survive.

But they have a much better chance in the water than in an ice chest...

[jchief]

Bruce, are you in the CCA tagging program? Think it would be intersting if you were to see what those bigger fish are doing year in and out.

[noodle creek]

I agree it's hard to argue against keeping a big fish. Since they don't have much more to offer spawning wise and they've been laying eggs since they were tiny not much reason to not keep a big one. I'd like to see proof of someone catching an 8 or 9 pounder a year or two after it was tagged. And I still can't get over the fact the limit was changed.

[cajunwader]

Yes, Last winter we tagged 6 over 8lbs & 1 that was pushing the 10 lb mark, all in Dec & Jan. The last legit 10 lb fish trout I have seen was Will Drost 10 lb 1 oz trout several years back. Will released her and another heavy 9 lb trout he caught a few minutes later. Ed Hix, of Houston, also has 2, 10 lb trout to his credit. One mega trout came in December and the other in April.Steve Nelson, of Lake Charles, has a 10 lb trout, caught in the Spring. Sadly the mount was lost during Hurricane Rita. Damn, the bad luck...

["W"]

Originally Posted by cajunwader

Bill Garret, a close friend, of Houston told me that in April of 2002 that he caught and released a 11 1/4 lb trout on the East Shoreline. The week before he caught two 10 lb class trout on the same trip. He had them both mounted together on a table mount. He chose to release the 11 pounder and not kill another big fish. Bill targets big trout and will wade all day for 1 bite...


He told me he thought the Lake record was over 12 lbs. He was thinking about the state record from Ponchartrain. True, its a fish story with no proof. I know a new state record trout resides in Big Lake at this time. It will come from Feb thru the first full moon in May. After that they are all spawned out, skinny, and eel like.


Big Lake does not have the numbers of big trout that in the past due to fishing pressure and anglers killed way to many big trout in the past. It will eventually take a toll. Keeping 6 to 8 lb trout will make it more difficult for the 9 & 10 lb sows to show in any great numbers. That's my 2 cents worth... Good Fishing!!!

I don't agree with that's why we don't have as many big trout is due to pressure and people keeping more big trout
Here is why
Just up till maybe 7 years now people started releasing big trout more and more.....now lots of people release way more trout than ever before in the lakes history

Before this CPR was popular and 15trout limits were in forced big trout were everywhere and common

Terry Shaunessy(sp) and those boys use to box hundreds of 6-9lb trout and back in those days everything hit the box

Big trout are still around but where you would catch just bug trout now you can catch limits of trout due to the over population on trout.

Big trout will not compete for food against smaller fish ,so when you have smaller trout hugging the same bank line big trout love....your big trout are going to move off

Just look how many big trout were caught during 90-2000....and you see a huge drop from 2000-2012 due to limit changes

Nothing else has changed but number of trout getting taken out

The two Hurricane helped the lake more than hurt as we had huge redfish numbers and trout numbers exploded

Pressure is not that's big of a deal because you still have the same guys running big motors while crabbing banks they did years ago...

But weekdays you can almost have the lake to your self in Jan,Feb,and early March

Until we have our limits moved back up you will see big trout numbers keep falling

This is not like Texas where they have no trout , we have a strong estuary and can support and huge number of fish

[lsufish]

One thing i'm noticing throughout these discussions is the disagreement occuring over whether or not reducing the overall trout limit has unitended consequences on the big trout population. Everyone is using examples, stating how when the limit was 25 they caught larger trout, versus smaller ones when the limit was moved to 15. I dont know the answer either way, but i will state that there are some errors with this logic. People are assuming that the only thing that has changed is the limit. They are not taking into account all the other variables that can change as well, such as fishing pressure. Its basic statistics, it is impossible to draw a logical conclusion based upon the limit redcutions without taking into account all the other factors and therefore having an actual apples-to-apples comparison.

[noodle creek]

More fishing pressure ought to lead to more big fish being caught. There are other variables, but if the limit change did lead to more bigger trout, it would be quite evident. However, the opposite is what is happening and it's nothing more than a fact. Can't argue with facts. We have more people fishing, and although not everyone out there is a good fisherman, plenty are. If the limit change did lead to Big Lake being a better trophy trout lake, it sure isn't showing.

[lsufish]

Originally Posted by noodle creek

More fishing pressure ought to lead to more big fish being caught . There are other variables, but if the limit change did lead to more bigger trout, it would be quite evident. However, the opposite is what is happening and it's nothing more than a fact. Can't argue with facts. We have more people fishing, and although not everyone out there is a good fisherman, plenty are. If the limit change did lead to Big Lake being a better trophy trout lake, it sure isn't showing.

More fishing pressure could lead to more big fish being caught, temporarily however big fish are like any other resouce in that they are finite. As far as fact, i haven't seen numbers that show less large fish are being caught. If you have that survey or study please list the link to me as i would like to see it for my own knowledge. I also don't think you are taking lagtime into account. For instance: WHen the pressure started to increase on the lake, more people were catching big trout as well as school sized trout. Therefore large numbers of both were being caught. There is a natural delay in any population because of the time it takes to reach reproductive maturity. It is possible that we could just now be seeing the negative effects of overfishing when the creel limits were higher.

Like i said earlier, I think W makes very vaild points, a compelling argument, and could very likely be right. I have no opinion either way, just pointing out that some things could be overlooked when people are drawing their conclusions. Read the book Freakanomics, great book that talks about this in detail that is a very interesting read. Not boring at all.

[Duck Butter]

I am not a marine fisheries biologist nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn last night or week, but I think legal recreational fishing is nowhere near the number one reason of a factor when it comes to sound fisheries management. Trout are very prolific spawners, they live a relatively short lifespan. For all species of wildlife that I can think of, three things are the most important to their entire existence: Survival first and foremost, growth, and then reproduction. They have to survive to grow and grow to reproduce. Reproduction is the ultimate goal of all animals, this is what is considered 'success' = to get your genes into the next generation (offspring).

Trout do not all spawn at the same time, they can spawn multiple times, and they produce numerous eggs each time. I have no idea the numbers, but lets just say 10,000 eggs is the average clutch of an average female trout. Lets say 1 MILLION trout are harvested in Big Lake each year (nowhere near that high), that means that 100 successful trout can make up for this years trout harvest from recreation fishing. There is no such thing as 100% survival of fish eggs and then no such thing as 100% survival from fry to adult, but still the point is addressed. If there is no food or shelter for these young fish then you have a problem (no survival and therefore no growth or reproduction).

If we start talking long lived species such as red snapper that maybe 50 years old, then thats another story, but for species such as trout, I do not believe fishing puts a dent in the overall population. Sure it takes out some fish, but I doubt the numbers that are taken out are statistically significant to natural mortality. I would bet pelicans and dolphins take out more trout than the recreational angler




Managing for trophies is ridiculous IMO, usually the opposite effect is derived when trophy management is adopted

Here is a good quote:

Availability of suitable habitat for individuals of a population in a particular area is what determines its ultimate population size. Regardless of how fast a species can reproduce, there can be no more dandelions than there is dandelion habitat and no more zebras (trout) than there is zebra (trout) habitat in a particular area.

[Duck Butter]

Read up on r-selected species and k-selected species

K = carrying capacity, and k-selected species are typically long-lived larger species that take longer to reach sexual maturity, have fewer offspring, and will typically have some sort of parental care (perennial plants, sea turtles, elephants, humans, etc.)

r-selected species reach sexual maturity fast, produce lots of offspring, do not live long, and typically don't spend too much energy on parental care (annual plants, mice, bacteria, etc.)

I would think trout fall more into the r-selected species they don't take long to reach sexual maturity, they are prolific spawners, and they just deposit their eggs and leave. Think of k as quality and r as quantity, and when you try to start managing for quality in an r-selected species in the wild, it usually doesn't pan out. Crappie and bluegill would fit this category as well. Just think of trout and panfish as mice, farmers (fishermen) spend millions each year trying to control (catch) the mouse populatioon, and yet with all that expensive chemicals and mouse traps (baits), the population keeps on coming back because they are resilient. Now if you want to try and grow bigger mice (trout) then you need to start taking away some of the smaller ones so the larger ones will have less competition from the smaller mice (trout).

["W"]

Explain what you would call fishing pressure ???? One day , over a week, over a month or a year

Like I said above in the months when big trout are more likely to be caught you have the least amount of boats out on the water Jan Feb and March... So fishing pressure is almost zero in theses months during the week

You have a few die hards like me that fish year around but not many

[lsufish]

Originally Posted by "W"

Explain what you would call fishing pressure ???? One day , over a week, over a month or a year

Like I said above in the months when big trout are more likely to be caught you have the least amount of boats out on the water Jan Feb and March... So fishing pressure is almost zero in theses months during the week

You have a few die hards like me that fish year around but not many

For discussion purposes, I define pressure as the total volume of recreational fishing boats in the resource over an extened period of time. Ex: comparing 1995 to 2000 vs. 2000 to 2005, etc. If we want to get technical then we need to define what constitues a big fish. Obviously, a 28" fish that is caught in March 15th with eggs, will weigh more than the same 28" fish June 15th after they dumped their eggs.

Removing the spawn factor out of the equation, based upon your observation that big trout are caught in months with the least pressure, do you think it could be possible that there is a inverse correlation between fishing activity and large fish? Ex: High activity fishing pressure, Less big fish per capita, Vs. Low activity fishing pressure.

It could be possible that the creel limit isn't the issue and there are just as many big fish now, but with all the "pilgrims" on the water it is becoming more difficult to catch them with all the "commotion".

Again,
I dont know the answer, just trying to demonstrate there can be all sorts of reason that lead to less big trout... not one all encompossing factor.

["W"]

Originally Posted by lsufish

For discussion purposes, I define pressure as the total volume of recreational fishing boats in the resource over an extened period of time. Ex: comparing 1995 to 2000 vs. 2000 to 2005, etc. If we want to get technical then we need to define what constitues a big fish. Obviously, a 28" fish that is caught in March 15th with eggs, will weigh more than the same 28" fish June 15th after they dumped their eggs.

Removing the spawn factor out of the equation, based upon your observation that big trout are caught in months with the least pressure, do you think it could be possible that there is a inverse correlation between fishing activity and large fish? Ex: High activity fishing pressure, Less big fish per capita, Vs. Low activity fishing pressure.

It could be possible that the creel limit isn't the issue and there are just as many big fish now, but with all the "pilgrims" on the water it is becoming more difficult to catch them with all the "commotion".

Again,
I dont know the answer, just trying to demonstrate there can be all sorts of reason that lead to less big trout... not one all encompossing factor.

To me from what I believe fishing pressure is not that much of a factor, now will fishing pressure cause you to miss chances for big trout ,,yes that's why you don't catch many big trout on Saturdays as you would say a weekday . I don't believe it drives trout out just spooks them into deeper waters or off reefs .
When a guy big motors on a bank /reef ,throws his anchor , trolls up wind, trolls wide open ...this all plays factor to messing many people up in a shallow lake . But this lake had gill nets and still put out huge trout .....

Let's take Cajunwader, he likes to fish colder months for big trout and he catches them... So his best big trout months are Jan ,Feb..

My best big trout month were I catch the most trout over 7lbs is August , but I know why I catch them because like Bruce who knows the art of Feb I have done the same for August . I catch all them close to the channel like washout, 9mile , WC and long point and about 90% are caught on falling tide.. These bigger trout hang in deeper waters off the channel and will follow bait on high tide up on flats. And when tide starts falling they will retreat back to cooler waters and I catch them all close to channel....

August is a busy boat and fishing month so that tells me big trout are not driven away because of boat traffic .

[inchspinner]

Well what does classify a "trophy fish" anyone

["W"]

Originally Posted by inchspinner

Well what does classify a "trophy fish" anyone

Seems 29inch is the number

[Gottogo49]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder or as Shaunessy used to say one man's tropy is another man's meat. Personally, I release anything over 24" and I try to do the Florida grouper release where you un-hook them in the water so there is less stress on them. Hopefully some kid will catch them again but I don't have a problem if someone wants to mount a big trout or even eat a big trout. The big ones have to have acquired more pollutants than small fish. To each his own.