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Inshore Saltwater Fishing Discussion Discuss inshore fishing, tackle, and tactics here!

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  #121  
Old 06-18-2012, 02:20 PM
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  #122  
Old 06-18-2012, 02:28 PM
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If that marsh supplies the lake with so much food, there should be more fish than water behind the weirs. That's not the case. Does it supply the lake with some of the food supply? Ok, I will give you that. But to say that that marsh is the sole support of the lake, is a huge overstatement. But maybe it is, and if that is the case, the clearly you are not concerned with the long-term good for the ENTIRE SYSTEM. Not just the fishery, but the ENTIRE SYSTEM. You are not going to maintain that marsh if you leave those weirs open all the time. It is not possible. It will not remain productive because it will convert to salt marsh, then mudflats, then open water, which is not good for the WHOLE. The only argument you have made this entire time is from a FISHERY stand point. Well, you can't maintain a FISHERY without HABITAT. That MARSH is the HABITAT for the FISHERY. You have made that point several times. Short-term sacrifice for long-term sustainability.

Last edited by Smalls; 06-18-2012 at 02:31 PM. Reason: edit
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  #123  
Old 06-18-2012, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smalls View Post
If that marsh supplies the lake with so much food, there should be more fish than water behind the weirs. That's not the case. Does it supply the lake with some of the food supply? Ok, I will give you that. But to say that that marsh is the sole support of the lake, is a huge overstatement. But maybe it is, and if that is the case, the clearly you are not concerned with the long-term good for the ENTIRE SYSTEM. Not just the fishery, but the ENTIRE SYSTEM. You are not going to maintain that marsh if you leave those weirs open all the time. It is not possible. It will not remain productive because it will convert to salt marsh, then mudflats, then open water, which is not good for the WHOLE. The only argument you have made this entire time is from a FISHERY stand point. Well, you can't maintain a FISHERY without HABITAT. That MARSH is the HABITAT for the FISHERY. You have made that point several times. Short-term sacrifice for long-term sustainability.



Yea the saltwater marshes by Hackberry are all mud flats and open water right??? Old BP marsh is open lake with mud flats????? Hummmmm seems to be lots of vegetation out there for open access to saltwater year round
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  #124  
Old 06-18-2012, 02:44 PM
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marshes by hackberry? if you are referring to kelso bayou, then yeah it is slowly converting to open water due to saltwater.
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  #125  
Old 06-18-2012, 02:45 PM
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also, old longpoint lake and surrounding marshes... converting to open water...
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  #126  
Old 06-18-2012, 02:49 PM
deltahunter85 deltahunter85 is offline
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all due to saltwater intrusion... let nature take its course??? how about let the natural channel fill back in? we all know thats not going to happen...
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  #127  
Old 06-18-2012, 03:08 PM
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First of all, if you are refering to Kelso Bayou, yes, that is a lot of mudflat and open water. Second, I did not mean or say that it would convert to that over time with no influence. What I meant by that was, if you have any disturbance such as a drought or hurricane, there is the potential to lose marsh which turns into mudflats. Mudflats then become deeper if plants do not recolonate the flats. In a salt marsh, when the flats get deeper, species cannot recolonate them because they cannot tolerate deep water as well as brackish or fresh species can. Thus you lose marsh and the only way to regain it is to go in with large scale dredging and filling projects. And FYI, Kelso Bayou is not a natural salt marsh. Salt marshes naturally occur close to the Gulf of Mexico in the majority of this region: http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/sites/d...salt_marsh.pdf

Looking at a map, there is one place that salt marsh "naturally" occurs, and I only say that because historically it was not salt marsh either.
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  #128  
Old 06-18-2012, 04:08 PM
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ship channel was dug 1926.
we did't need weirs for 50 years.
now it's only thing that will save the marsh
we still loose coastline every year
leave the marshes alone. mother nature willbdo a better job man
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  #129  
Old 06-18-2012, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainy_day View Post
ship channel was dug 1926.
we did't need weirs for 50 years.
now it's only thing that will save the marsh
we still loose coastline every year
leave the marshes alone. mother nature willbdo a better job man
This isn't an overnight process, it does take time. Remember there were cypress trees in the lake. It takes time to kill a cypress, but anyway I can drive down 27 to the coast and just look out there and see open mudflats and salt tolerant vegetation, its not a good thing, the weirs were put there to mitigate for the ship channel which allows saltwater to intrude into the system.

If nature was allowed to run its course and the ship channel would never be dredged again (bye bye Lake Charles industry), the ship channel would eventually silt in and the straight channels would eventually start to meander like natural streams do - there are NOT straight streams or rivers in nature, and it would take care of itself eventually but long after our generation comes and goes. Take into effect sea level rise (cough cough) and its not looking good, saltwater intrusion is probably the biggest threat to Louisiana, besides the current Preside..


And some parts of Louisiana are actually building coastline, the Atchafalaya Delta is productive marsh and grows every year. Just this past year Venice actually gained land from all the flooding and the diversions were opened to allow freshwater and sediment to flow. In our lifetimes we ain't gonna see the levees of the MS River come down, this is what is ultimately needed. One more Katrina event and maybe New Orleans people will realize there was a reason smart people don't build below sea level
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  #130  
Old 06-18-2012, 04:30 PM
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Sabine lake has no weirs to block their bayous into the marsh. Not the same fisherie I know but still hasn't wiped out their marsh.
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  #131  
Old 06-18-2012, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck Butter View Post
This isn't an overnight process, it does take time. Remember there were cypress trees in the lake. It takes time to kill a cypress, but anyway I can drive down 27 to the coast and just look out there and see open mudflats and salt tolerant vegetation, its not a good thing, the weirs were put there to mitigate for the ship channel which allows saltwater to intrude into the system.

If nature was allowed to run its course and the ship channel would never be dredged again (bye bye Lake Charles industry), the ship channel would eventually silt in and the straight channels would eventually start to meander like natural streams do - there are NOT straight streams or rivers in nature, and it would take care of itself eventually but long after our generation comes and goes. Take into effect sea level rise (cough cough) and its not looking good, saltwater intrusion is probably the biggest threat to Louisiana, besides the current Preside..


And some parts of Louisiana are actually building coastline, the Atchafalaya Delta is productive marsh and grows every year. Just this past year Venice actually gained land from all the flooding and the diversions were opened to allow freshwater and sediment to flow. In our lifetimes we ain't gonna see the levees of the MS River come down, this is what is ultimately needed. One more Katrina event and maybe New Orleans people will realize there was a reason smart people don't build below sea level
The Ship channel and land around it is going to be in great shape...They have rocks all the way down and are filling behind the rocks back up with dredge mud...

I wish they would build a rock wall about half a mile long around 9 mile or Wash out to break up big waves from ships
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  #132  
Old 06-18-2012, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainy_day View Post
ship channel was dug 1926.
we did't need weirs for 50 years.
now it's only thing that will save the marsh
we still loose coastline every year
leave the marshes alone. mother nature willbdo a better job man
Yes, you're right, we do lose coastline every year. Got any idea of how much of that is due to loss of functioning deltas? I can tell you the only place in Louisiana that gains new land every year is the forming atchafalaya delta. Every other place has manmade interference. But that's a whole other discussion. Back to the weirs.

As myself and many others have continuously echoed, the weirs are man's way of making right what man did wrong by dredging that channel. Saltwater super highway. I've got plenty of papers and books that talk about this topic. Some of it interesting, some dreadfully boring, but all informative.

And as duck said, it takes time to see the effects of these things.

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  #133  
Old 06-18-2012, 04:47 PM
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All im saying is Yes...I see your Long term point to save the marsh....Thats fine..but to keep the weris closed over a long period of time will effect the lake , Long term im talking about 6 months to a year...
Hope we dont go in a dry spell for to long

here are some local marshes with no weirs
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Marsh 1.jpg (82.5 KB, 266 views)
File Type: jpg Marsh 2.jpg (106.5 KB, 269 views)
File Type: jpg Marsh 3.jpg (88.2 KB, 274 views)
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  #134  
Old 06-18-2012, 05:12 PM
Smalls Smalls is offline
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And your point is? Unless you know what you are looking at in those images, you can't tell if one marsh is fresh or brackish. It is not just a question of whether the marsh is there or not. Salt marsh is not as productive as brackish or fresh marsh. The marsh in the bottom right of that second aerial is salt marsh. Primary production is not nearly as high as in brackish marsh, and diversity is low.

Also, no one has ever said the weirs will stay closed for 6 months. There is no way, because the weirs are opened on full moons. Also, it is only closed when the salinities get to a certain level in the marsh.

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  #135  
Old 06-18-2012, 05:53 PM
rainy_day rainy_day is offline
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The weirs have been in
Place for how long.
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  #136  
Old 06-18-2012, 06:33 PM
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1989. Do a quick Google search for Cameron creole watershed weirs and read the intro and purpose to some of those reports. 63000 acres of fresh and brackish marsh lost after the 30 ft dredging of the ship channel in the 1940s.

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  #137  
Old 06-18-2012, 09:11 PM
rainy_day rainy_day is offline
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I remember shrimping in big lake with my dad and catching 400 to 500 lbs of shrimp in a
weekend now you can't catch 400 shrimp in a weekend what's changed except blocking
the marshes off from their natural flow. Bottom line is shrimp and fish need the marsh to
spawn and develop in cut off the marsh and the lfe line to the lake..
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  #138  
Old 06-18-2012, 09:42 PM
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Short term. Everything is not about the fish, I'm sorry. Everyone makes the point that the marsh is the lifeline of the fish and the lake. Ok, then understand that that marsh is only capable of supporting fish and shrimp because it is maintained. You caught 400 and 500 shrimp because the marsh was dying because of saltwater intrusion. That marsh was naturally fresh and brackish, not salt as a lot of it is now. As I have said repeatedly, the marsh is not shut off forever, just at times to keep the salinities where they should be to keep that marsh productive and supportive of the lake.

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  #139  
Old 06-18-2012, 09:56 PM
rdenison rdenison is offline
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Weirs will be open tomorrow morning at sun rise for 48 hours, just called in sick to work, yeah baby!!!! The recording said they had to let the fishies out the marsh, oh yeah!!!!
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  #140  
Old 06-18-2012, 10:21 PM
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We are at the new moon, I believe the weirs are supposed to be opened for a certain time period around the new and full moon to allow for movement of the nekton between marsh and lake.

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