Flounder Pressure in Cameron

[LaAngler]

This evening at Academy I spent a good while talking with a guy who specializes in catching flounder in cameron.

He told me since texas regulated the gigging laws and creels there, he's seeing a lot more texas flounder boats in our waters.

He also shared some information and I would like to verify whether it's true or false. He said during the fall flounder run, the butterfly shrimpers would rig up their nets in a special way. This method allows baitfish and shrimp to pass through the nets and only trap flounder. They set up at night in the bayou's and along the banks of the navigation channels.

He mentioned he buys shrimp near the "crab man" down in Cameron. During a couple of his trips he saw what he estimated to be hundreds of pounds in flounder being unloaded onto the docks by the commercial fishermen. The price was 2-3 dollars a pound.

The guy told me he mentioned this to one of the local CCA guys and they told him that is was impossible and wasn't happening.

My questions are, is this legal? Is is true?

[BossHog]

I dont know about that but I was told when they use to gillnet back in the day something like 60%-80% of the commercial flounder caught in LA came from calcasieu pass

[Ray]

The shrimpers do catch Flounder in butterfly nets, but they don't do anything special
with their nets.
They push the nets for shrimp and keep any Flounder that are legal. They don't sell
them in Cameron, they sell in Hackberry.
Them's the guys who tell me when the Flounder are running and I hook it up down
there to catch me some too.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by BossHog

I dont know about that but I was told when they use to gillnet back in the day something like 60%-80% of the commercial flounder caught in LA came from calcasieu pass

They put the gill nets around the weir areas. They knew most of the
Flounder came out of there and around the Salt Ditch and coming out
of Kelso Bayou.

[LaAngler]

this gentleman claims they were offloading in cameron, and not just a few flounder, like hundreds. And also that the nets were modified, i'm not sure why he would lie?

edit

here is a possible loophole

Flounder, Southern: Ten fish for each licensed fisherman for each consecutive day on the water EXCEPT any commercial shrimping vessels may retain and any commercial fisherman may sell all Southern flounder caught as bycatch on any shrimping trip.

http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/fishing...r/regulations/

[Ray]

They are not doing anything illegal. I have seen them doing this for over 40 years.
You will always find a few outlaws. But most are doing what they can to keep their
families fed.
After Rita, there was 1 place that bought fish. After Ike, the only place was in
Hackberry. They get different prices for different sized fish. It is not a $2/lb. price.
I can get you more info. from the shrimpers, but it won't change anything.
They are not targeting Flounder. They are not changing their nets. Them nets cost
a lot. Why would they let their #1 catch, shrimp, go thru their nets.
I was born and raised down there. I lived in Cameron for 36 years. I know most of the
local shrimpers in Cameron. They are not changing anything to catch just Flounder.
And they cannot drag any nets when the shrimp season is closed. They can only
catch the Flounder in the lake and river during the inshore shrimp season.

[Ray]

I have never seen a Texas Founder boat in Cameron. I don't know what a Flounder
boat looks like. Neither does any of the shrimpers in Cameron that I know.
Post a picture of one and I will go look next Fall.
When shrimping in Big Lake was hot back in the 70's, Texas shrimpers came to drag
here. Then it died out. There are a few offshore and beach shrimpers from Texas,
but I never see them in the river or lake.

[Ray]

I am going to make a few calls in the morning.
I will find out about any Texas boats docking in Cameron.
They may be docking in Hackberry.
There is a big shortage of dock space for commercial fishermen in Cameron.
Before Rita, there were about 5 or 6 big fish docks. Now there is only the old
Bolo dock and one in the old river at the end of the road.
I know the guy who runs the old Bolo dock and my brother in law sells oysters
at the other seafood dock.
The seafood dock and ice house that was by the Crab Man was wiped out by
Hurricane Ike.

[LaAngler]

i'm not doubting you Ray, but i'm going to play devils advocate here.

Originally Posted by Ray

They are not doing anything illegal. I have seen them doing this for over 40 years.

I didn't say it was illegal, I said there may be a loophole in the law.

Originally Posted by Ray

But most are doing what they can to keep their families fed.

I think that's what the Charlie Hardison crew said when the got popped with a thousand snapper out of season.

Originally Posted by Ray

After Rita, there was 1 place that bought fish. After Ike, the only place was in Hackberry. They get different prices for different sized fish. It is not a $2/lb. price.

I've sold fish in the old Abe's parking lot you'd be shocked how easy fish is to sell, especially to restaurant owners.

Originally Posted by Ray

I can get you more info. from the shrimpers, but it won't change anything.

I'm sure they would give me perfectly accurate info!

i doubt it would change anything myself, LDWF is more concerned with checking the expiration date on someone's fire extinguisher 50 yards away from the lakeshore drive hdqtrs. CCA is more worried about the money that STAR rakes in. (biggest kill tournament on gulf coast, lol)

Originally Posted by Ray

And they cannot drag any nets when the shrimp season is closed. They can only catch the Flounder in the lake and river during the inshore shrimp season.

Shrimp season stayed open a long time


btw, i was talking about rec flounder boats

[Ray]

I don't think recreational flounder fishermen can hurt our population.
I have seen first hand, thousands of founder moving out to the gulf.
It was amazing to see. And sometimes they don't bite when moving.
There is no loophole. It is perfectly legal to sell Flounder caught in
their nets. I don't understand that statement.
I have hit them migrating out to the gulf twice this year and only saw
2 other boats fishing with a rod and reel besides my boat both times.
From what the shrimpers told me, they got 3 good Flounder migrations
that hit right after 3 different fronts this year.

[LaAngler]

Originally Posted by Ray

thousands of founder moving out to the gulf.
It was amazing to see. And sometimes they don't bite when moving.
There is no loophole. It is perfectly legal to sell Flounder caught in
their nets.

So it would be possible to do this then. It wouldn't be legal to keep more than 10 if the intentions were to catch flounder, that's my only point.

Originally Posted by Ray

I don't think recreational flounder fishermen can hurt our population.

So you do agree that commercial fisherman can right?

[Ray]

I agree that any commercial fishing group can wipe out any type of seafood.
They already have. Some of them don't care as long as they are making money.
Then when there are no more fish, they blame the gov't. and want them to pay
them to do nothing.
But some of them do care cause they are somewhat educated and want to keep
working in the commercial fishing industry. They don't know or want to do anything
else.

[Mediumheavyaction6'6]

i have seen commercial shrimpers unload 3 or 4 of the big ice boxes filled with flounder selling them for $2 a pound, down in Port Fourchon

[Ray]

Depending on size, they get between $2.50 and $2.00.
The shrimpers I know in Cameron sold in Hackberry this year.
They don't keep them all, the buyer only buys a certain size, the rest get thrown back.
They sell early cause once the markets get flooded, the price goes down.
If the price goes below $2, they chunk them all back. They said it is not worth it to
keep them if they get below $2.
There are no special nets. They drag for shrimp. If they catch Flounder, they keep
what they can sell.
They said the Founder are a pain in the azz depending on the size and how many they
are catching. They would rather catch just shrimp, but you have to take what you
can get when the price is good.
The shrimp leave the marshes and the Flounder are close behind.
I am going to be ready for them flat bastids next fall.

[cmdrost]

The commercials are well within their limits, but will destroy fish populations, like they have with snapper & grouper.

As for Texans and their limits, they are cracking down on everything and it won't be long till their all over here fishing. All it takes is a few good reports on the internet. I've even heard they might start to close trout in certain parts of the state for certain parts of the year. Their trout fishery is in a bad way right now.

[LaAngler]

i read some talking about wanting to close trout season after this freeze! and that's the rec guys talking

[Ray]

Originally Posted by cmdrost

The commercials are well within their limits, but will destroy fish populations, like they have with snapper & grouper.

As for Texans and their limits, they are cracking down on everything and it won't be long till their all over here fishing. All it takes is a few good reports on the internet. I've even heard they might start to close trout in certain parts of the state for certain parts of the year. Their trout fishery is in a bad way right now.

If it is that bad, why do they keep the limits at 25 for the whole state except for here? Don't make sense.

[LaAngler]

i think he's talking about texas

i say make the shrimpers use a cast net only

[Ray]

And they would say to let you use a cast net only for trout.

It's one against another. The lobby with the most money and pull wins.

There are very few shrimpers left who pull or push nets in the lake.
Few are in the river or ship channel for inland.
The big money is on the beaches and offshore.

Like I said before, if you seen the amount of Flounder I saw going out
to the gulf the 2 times I fished them, you would be amazed. After seeing
that, I cannot believe there is any harm to the population.
We caught 30 Flounder in one trip, as fast as we could throw the lure
out and bring them back.
Second trip, they wouldn't bite any artificial. We had to get some dead
bait and a cork. Then it took us an hour to get 20 fish. Don't know what
the difference was, but they work differently at different times.

[cmdrost]

I am talking about TX, but LA aint too far behind. I don't think LA will get to the point of a closed season on trout, but they will have to lower limits statewide, including here again.