Weirs Closed

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Capt.B

Well welcome to the club....I just don't see what your point is....It was so fresh back there I lost all wigeon grass because of the green scum (due to no tide flow) not to mention stagnant water that stunk like methane....Lillies and cat tails were so thick ponds and trails were choked out.....and you need some saltwater to have wigeon grass...85% of the folks I talked to on the lease were displeased with the management back there.

Weir management definitely needs to be improved to optimize the purpose while reducing the negative effects like those you mention and the negative effects on the fishery.

"Lilies and cattails" may or may not be a good thing, depending on the species, the location, the level of dominance, and the specific goals for the salinity and vegetation at a given location. You should take pictures of things you suspect are negative vegetation or conditions, noting the date and GPS coordinates to provide precise and accurate information to biologists who frequently deal with inaccurate plant identifications from the public. Scientific usefulness means specifying what, when, and where. There is a lot of space back there and a wide range of species and vegetation. Take high quality pictures to enable biologists to identify species of vegetation.

Keep in mind that the goal is not to manage the weirs to optimize the hunting or the fishing in the short term, but to support a mix of vegetation that best resists erosion and loss of the marsh.

Think stuff with deep roots that will hold on to the dirt and help it all resist washing away in a tidal surge = good.

Bare dirt and shallow rooted stuff that give way easily = bad.

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by Capt.B

Well welcome to the club....I just don't see what your point is....It was so fresh back there I lost all wigeon grass because of the green scum (due to no tide flow) not to mention stagnant water that stunk like methane....Lillies and cat tails were so thick ponds and trails were choked out.....and you need some saltwater to have wigeon grass...85% of the folks I talked to on the lease were displeased with the management back there.

Where are you at behind the weirs? I've seen areas that didn't have a cattail or Lilly in sight, and this was not near the weirs. Most everywhere I've been back there is wiregrass.

[Capt.B]

I say if we really wanna help the fishing....Put the strike nets back in Big Lake for the month of April (for Red Fish only) and do something abt oyster dredging. Then come up with a re-seed program. Ie Move oyster reefs from North end to the wash out and the cove. My Point is there is plenty of open marsh in our area to support the estuary. The weirs are gonna be the weirs until someone puts dynamite to them.....and we all know thats not gonna happen. Regulations that have been imposed for the greater good "long term" are now biting us in the a s s.

[Capt.B]

Originally Posted by Smalls

Where are you at behind the weirs? I've seen areas that didn't have a cattail or Lilly in sight, and this was not near the weirs. Most everywhere I've been back there is wiregrass.

Mosquito lake and Blind lake area

["W"]

It's just a matter of time till the crabbers and Shrimpers have enough of losing money and take actions into there own hands!! And I see that happening real soon

[Capt.B]

Originally Posted by "W"

It's just a matter of time till the crabbers and Shrimpers have enough of losing money and take actions into there own hands!! And I see that hopping real soon

That's already happening....crabbers can't catch and rumor has it that Mr. Steve is wanting to sell his bait boat cause they are loosing $$$......Had a commercial fisherman that has also fished this lake as a guide tell me that all the oysters he has picked up by chance east of the washout are dead. We have a real problem here...But the weirs are not the "Big Picture". So until we can get the funding to have real biologist (that are unbiased) come in and do a real study....we may never know the real truth

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Capt.B

Mosquito lake and Blind lake area

I have not studied the detailed hydrology, but I'd think this area would be more impacted by the salinity of the ICWW (a few hundred yards) than by the weirs (5-6 miles away). If you open the weirs enough that any significant salt is making it back to Mosquito lake and Blind lake, you'd be exposing the marsh closer the weirs to much higher salt levels.

Salinity in the ICWW is controlled with the Calcasieu Lock and needs to be kept low in that area so as not to dump too much salt into the upper Mermentau system.

If you want more flow at that point, you just gotta pray for rain. If you want more salt, you'd better think about increasing the connection to the ICWW. But the USACE might not like that, because they work pretty hard to keep the salinity up there below 5 ppt (waaaaaay below). The USACE has a number of salinity monitoring sides along the ICWW. There are three south of the ICWW and many more just N of the ICWW. The two closes to your points of interest are labeled Sweet Lake and Willow Lake on the linked map. You can peruse the interactive map and see the salinity readings.

http://www2.mvn.usace.army.mil/ops/sms/Calc.asp

[Capt.B]

I hope all this internet data can solve all these Big Lake problems...but not likely. I've been on BL for 25 yrs and have witnessed the decline with my own eyes. We will not find the solutions with google....but with solid hands on data. I wish I had all the answers and my comments aren't answers just a ton of observation

["W"]

Got some good news Brent

CCA said sit tight!!

But we know they have NO plans of fighting oyster dredging so that's out
We know they will not buck any kind of issues like the weirs so that's out

I bet we getting another half million dollar reef?

[Pull n Pray]

This may be a dumb question, but is there no middle ground? Why can't they leave one weir open with the boat bay and close all the others? Or leave them open during day when fishing peaks.

[Capt.B]

Originally Posted by "W"

Got some good news Brent

CCA said sit tight!!

But we know they have NO plans of fighting oyster dredging so that's out
We know they will not buck any kind of issues like the weirs so that's out

I bet we getting another half million dollar reef?

Sit Tight.....AWESOME!!

[Capt.B]

Originally Posted by Pull n Pray

This may be a dumb question, but is there no middle ground? Why can't they leave one weir open with the boat bay and close all the others? Or leave them open during day when fishing peaks.

$$$$$

[Capt.B]

Originally Posted by "W"

Got some good news Brent

CCA said sit tight!!

But we know they have NO plans of fighting oyster dredging so that's out
We know they will not buck any kind of issues like the weirs so that's out

I bet we getting another half million dollar reef?

Did hear they were gonna dig a Big Hole where the key well used to be for the spoil.....and they were supposed to spend millions saving rabbit island in the cove.....Then again IDK if that was WLF or CCA.....either way someone's gotta pay for it. But I garountee ya 1 thang.....CCA wont see a dime from me....maybe that's the reason for the fishing lic increase.....no one can avoid the increase.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Capt.B

I hope all this internet data can solve all these Big Lake problems...but not likely. I've been on BL for 25 yrs and have witnessed the decline with my own eyes. We will not find the solutions with google....but with solid hands on data. I wish I had all the answers and my comments aren't answers just a ton of observation

I grew up in Lake Charles, and the fishing in Big Lake post Rita was much better than it was in the 1970's. The rise of salinity and the slow death of the marsh give the appearance of health and life while it is happening, but then you're left with something more like Galveston Bay with a daily limit of 5-7 specks, 3 redfish, and two bull reds per year.

There are gonna be some hard years, but if we protect the marsh and the oyster reefs, Big Lake can remain a much better fishery over time than Galveston Bay. I met a gentleman out at Calcasieu Point a few weeks ago who had traveled here from the mid-West to do some fishing. After a few frustrated days on Big Lake, he hired a guide to take him fishing in Galveston Bay, which I could not believe. I tried to stop him, telling him any guide on Big Lake could put him on more fish than he'd likely catch in Galveston.

If the specks are down in a given year or one can't figure it out on a given day or season, you just gotta adjust. Let your customers know what's up when they reserve the day, and be prepared to shift and put them on slot reds or bull reds or sheephead or whatever. Guides all over the Gulf Coast make a good living putting customers on other species when the specks in their estuary aren't cooperating.

Some guides (to remain nameless) are overly elitist, looking down on popping corks or live bait or cracked crab or gafftops or whatever. But to my mind, if that's what it takes to bend a rod for your customer, then that's what a guide should do. It's not all the fault of the guys with the weir switch or the oyster boats, or whatever. Get out there and make some lemonade.

I've contributed to a lot of solid, hands on, scientific data on the Big Lake fishery over the past four years. I've got notebooks and spreadsheets full of data. I know the time, sweat, and money that it takes to collect that data, so when I can make use of reliable alternate data sources provided by our tax dollars and license fees through USGS or LDWF or USACE or NOAA, I do that.

We'll be collecting another year's worth of fishery data on Big Lake in late May to early June to help assess the impact of various management issues. We don't usually do surveys at Spicer's but we're staying close to there and can likely have a measurement team there quickly if you're headed in with a cooler full of fish. We can weigh and measure 60 specks and 20 redfish in about 20 minutes so it is hardly an inconvenience to most guide's routines. PM me for my phone number. With 30 minutes lead time, your "data" can contribute to our "data" and be a valuable addition to our study.

[Capt.B]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

I grew up in Lake Charles, and the fishing in Big Lake post Rita was much better than it was in the 1970's. The rise of salinity and the slow death of the marsh give the appearance of health and life while it is happening, but then you're left with something more like Galveston Bay with a daily limit of 5-7 specks, 3 redfish, and two bull reds per year.

There are gonna be some hard years, but if we protect the marsh and the oyster reefs, Big Lake can remain a much better fishery over time than Galveston Bay. I met a gentleman out at Calcasieu Point a few weeks ago who had traveled here from the mid-West to do some fishing. After a few frustrated days on Big Lake, he hired a guide to take him fishing in Galveston Bay, which I could not believe. I tried to stop him, telling him any guide on Big Lake could put him on more fish than he'd likely catch in Galveston.

If the specks are down in a given year or one can't figure it out on a given day or season, you just gotta adjust. Let your customers know what's up when they reserve the day, and be prepared to shift and put them on slot reds or bull reds or sheephead or whatever. Guides all over the Gulf Coast make a good living putting customers on other species when the specks in their estuary aren't cooperating.

Some guides (to remain nameless) are overly elitist, looking down on popping corks or live bait or cracked crab or gafftops or whatever. But to my mind, if that's what it takes to bend a rod for your customer, then that's what a guide should do. It's not all the fault of the guys with the weir switch or the oyster boats, or whatever. Get out there and make some lemonade.

I've contributed to a lot of solid, hands on, scientific data on the Big Lake fishery over the past four years. I've got notebooks and spreadsheets full of data. I know the time, sweat, and money that it takes to collect that data, so when I can make use of reliable alternate data sources provided by our tax dollars and license fees through USGS or LDWF or USACE or NOAA, I do that.

We'll be collecting another year's worth of fishery data on Big Lake in late May to early June to help assess the impact of various management issues. We don't usually do surveys at Spicer's but we're staying close to there and can likely have a measurement team there quickly if you're headed in with a cooler full of fish. We can weigh and measure 60 specks and 20 redfish in about 20 minutes so it is hardly an inconvenience to most guide's routines. PM me for my phone number. With 30 minutes lead time, your "data" can contribute to our "data" and be a valuable addition to our study.

We need a like button on here

[Smalls]

Good news W. I talked to my buddy with LDWF. Biologists for LDWF don't work behind the weirs. He said that is fed territory. So did you talk to Agents? Not saying an agent wouldn't know what he's talking about, but I have known agents that had no biology background except fish or wildlife identification. Nothing wrong with that, they don't need anymore than that in most cases.

I understand your point about data, Capt. B, but there is decades of data on vegetation and salinity characteristics as they relate to the Cameron-Creole. There has also been research conducted on the effect of the weirs on ingress and egress of organisms. I have a few of those reports sitting in my office. You can also find them online.

So there is not a lack of data. Quite the contrary, there is an abundance of data. I have seen one report, can't remember if it is one I have laying around or its on the internet, but it clearly shows salinities dropped after installation of the weirs, which is beneficial to that marsh. I have a map somewhere that shows the vegetation communities from 1949. Most of that area was high quality Jamaican sawgrass marsh. That marsh type was a great muskrat habitat. The loss of that marsh type has a lot to do with the loss of muskrats, among other things.

I am sorry to hear that what was good duck habitat has been grown up with cattails. I hate cattails as much as I hate marsh loss. But historically, that marsh was brackish to fresh. There have been some areas to the east that have experienced a freshing over time, while areas more lakeward have experienced a slight increase in salt, and consequently, a change in marsh type.

The major issue pre-weirs was the increase in salt. As Delany (1989) pointed out, marshhay cordgrass, or wiregrass as many know it, was dying because of the constant, raised salinities. It was dying so rapidly that smooth cordgrass, or oystergrass, could not colonize. The net result was a loss of marsh, and increased open water.

At the same time, this is when shrimping and crabbing appear to have been at their height in the area, because there was an abundance of detritus. This provided an abundance of food for these organisms.

If anyone is legitimately interested in reading some of these papers, I will be glad to share them. If I can get some of the paper reports scanned in, I will be glad to share those too.

["W"]

Originally Posted by Smalls

Good news W. I talked to my buddy with LDWF. Biologists for LDWF don't work behind the weirs. He said that is fed territory. So did you talk to Agents? Not saying an agent wouldn't know what he's talking about, but I have known agents that had no biology background except fish or wildlife identification. Nothing wrong with that, they don't need anymore than that in most cases.

I understand your point about data, Capt. B, but there is decades of data on vegetation and salinity characteristics as they relate to the Cameron-Creole. There has also been research conducted on the effect of the weirs on ingress and egress of organisms. I have a few of those reports sitting in my office. You can also find them online.

So there is not a lack of data. Quite the contrary, there is an abundance of data. I have seen one report, can't remember if it is one I have laying around or its on the internet, but it clearly shows salinities dropped after installation of the weirs, which is beneficial to that marsh. I have a map somewhere that shows the vegetation communities from 1949. Most of that area was high quality Jamaican sawgrass marsh. That marsh type was a great muskrat habitat. The loss of that marsh type has a lot to do with the loss of muskrats, among other things.

I am sorry to hear that what was good duck habitat has been grown up with cattails. I hate cattails as much as I hate marsh loss. But historically, that marsh was brackish to fresh. There have been some areas to the east that have experienced a freshing over time, while areas more lakeward have experienced a slight increase in salt, and consequently, a change in marsh type.

The major issue pre-weirs was the increase in salt. As Delany (1989) pointed out, marshhay cordgrass, or wiregrass as many know it, was dying because of the constant, raised salinities. It was dying so rapidly that smooth cordgrass, or oystergrass, could not colonize. The net result was a loss of marsh, and increased open water.

At the same time, this is when shrimping and crabbing appear to have been at their height in the area, because there was an abundance of detritus. This provided an abundance of food for these organisms.

If anyone is legitimately interested in reading some of these papers, I will be glad to share them. If I can get some of the paper reports scanned in, I will be glad to share those too.

It was not me who talked to guys behind the weirs it was a guide and a local guy who lives here



But I did talk to the guys who were fish sampling

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by "W"

It was not me who talked to guys behind the weirs it was a guide and a local guy who lives here



But I did talk to the guys who were fish sampling

Ah, gotcha. I still find it hard to believe that any biologist was commenting on the cameron-creole marsh when they don't work back there. It was a biologist that told me they don't work back there.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Smalls

There has also been research conducted on the effect of the weirs on ingress and egress of organisms. I have a few of those reports sitting in my office. You can also find them online.

If anyone is legitimately interested in reading some of these papers, I will be glad to share them. If I can get some of the paper reports scanned in, I will be glad to share those too.

Thanks for chiming in, I knew you would explain some of these details better than I could. I'm more of a fauna kind of a guy.

I would be greatly appreciative for any reports or papers you could provide or point to regarding the ingress and egress of organisms.

["W"]

Originally Posted by Smalls

Ah, gotcha. I still find it hard to believe that any biologist was commenting on the cameron-creole marsh when they don't work back there. It was a biologist that told me they don't work back there.

He sure knew a lot, guess it don't take rocket science like you try to make it out to

As stated above that marsh has some areas you cannot even drive your boat anymore due to overgrown runs