Concealed Weapon Permit

[kcinnick]

Property rights do trump CC laws, all you need is permission from the property owner/church leadership even without a permit. Same as you can carry in your own home however you wish, regardless of government issued documents. And I hate to say it, concealed means concealed. And one final comment, tactical training is not defined anywhere, so does 8 hours of range time a year count? I have a feeling this will never be a primary charge EVER.

[Dogface]

Originally Posted by duckman1911

You sir are correct. However oc is unregulated according to the state constitution. It is clear in the fact that only cc can be regulated. It can be overridden by property rights and I completely agree with that. You don't want me to carry that is your right but I also will never spend money with your business or church.
I do believe that 8hours a year training is laughable. Of course I think the cc requirements and a POST course is laughable also.

I agree with you about the 8 hours and the CC requirements. This amount of training doesn't come close to preparing one for a situation like a shooting in a church.

[marty f]

Originally Posted by Dogface

I agree with you about the 8 hours and the CC requirements. This amount of training doesn't come close to preparing one for a situation like a shooting in a church.

Originally Posted by marty f

I can understand Cajuns point here. Id say 90%+ of CC holders are immensely under trained for the power they posses. In a church, theater or where ever trying to be a hero will get you killed. .

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by Dogface

I agree with you about the 8 hours and the CC requirements. This amount of training doesn't come close to preparing one for a situation like a shooting in a church.

There are a few here that think I'm some 5'3" cocky guy strutting around with my 45 looking for a fight. I have strong stances I understand that. I have also been fortunate enough to train under some very great people. One was swat leader and head marksman for APD one was SRT team leader for Fort Polk and one was free lance edged weapons trainer for various departments. I agree with both sides of this issue. There is and never will be a perfect plan. Not be in a gun fight is the only perfect plan.

[kcinnick]

Originally Posted by duckman1911

There are a few here that think I'm some 5'3" cocky guy strutting around with my 45 looking for a fight. I have strong stances I understand that. I have also been fortunate enough to train under some very great people. One was swat leader and head marksman for APD one was SRT team leader for Fort Polk and one was free lance edged weapons trainer for various departments. I agree with both sides of this issue. There is and never will be a perfect plan. Not be in a gun fight is the only perfect plan.

If I was planning to be in a gunfight I would NOT rely on my concealed carry pistol.

I actually plan to never be in a gun fight, but if one is brought to me I do carry a pistol everywhere I go.

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by kcinnick

If I was planning to be in a gunfight I would NOT rely on my concealed carry pistol.

I actually plan to never be in a gun fight, but if one is brought to me I do carry a pistol everywhere I go.

I believe it was Jeff Cooper that said a handgun is only to fight your way back to your rifle.
You will never carry a handgun and have enough gun.

[marty f]

Originally Posted by duckman1911

You will never carry a handgun and have enough gun.

HAHA the only gun I have ever sold was a Desert Eagle .50 too much hand gun!! too much $$ to be wrapped up in a gun I didn't like to shot

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by marty f

HAHA the only gun I have ever sold was a Desert Eagle .50 too much hand gun!! too much $$ to be wrapped up in a gun I didn't like to shot

That's an expensive piece of iron to feed. Never was a DE fan. Yeah they look cool but don't handle well. IMO. Im not recoil sensitive the gun just feels like a heavy 2x4 to me.my buddy has a 480 ruger and that is a sweet piece. Even with 350grn horady xtp's it's a great gun. Obviously not a cc gun. Next toy will be a G20 10mm.

[mriguy]

My buddy loves his DE'suploadfromtaptalk1439261558443.jpg
But he doesn't like to shoot them
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by mriguy

My buddy loves his DE'sAttachment 92960
But he doesn't like to shoot them
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

Manz how many rap cd's u buddy gotz?

[mriguy]

Originally Posted by duckman1911

Manz how many rap cd's u buddy gotz?

Lol! Not into rap but he is definitely into firearms.

[marty f]

Originally Posted by duckman1911

Yeah they look cool but don't handle well. just feels like a heavy 2x4 to me.my .

I tried to shoot this .50 cal one handed.......ONCE
I did manage to keep it under control, but I never did that again.

[CajunChristian]

You guys are absolutely correct, there is no perfect plan. BUT, in today's world, you had better have some kind of a plan. When giving a presentation to a church, that is the first issue we discuss "due diligence". Churches can no longer keep their heads in the sand and say "it will never happen here". You want to see just how bad it really is, google "church shootings" or "church violence", you will be amazed. You will find thousands of incidents that never made the news.
OUR TEAMS GOAL IS TO DEESCALATE A SITUATION,NOT ESCALATE ONE.

I am not saying our team is better or worse than anyone else, I'm saying our team knows every inch of our facility and trains quarterly, in that facility. We do an unorthodox type qualifying every 3 months. And I assure you, it's not standing there shooting a paper target. If you fail the qualifying, you are weaponless for 3 months in church. Most of you really have no idea what a good Security Team entails. It's not just being able to hit a target and knowing the building. We send our team all over the US training with different tactical schools. Our Pastor is CC qualified and trains with us every 3 months. There is more for a Pastor to do defensively than simply carrying a pistol. We have signals set up should someone jump the stage and take anyone hostage. We train with the Worship Team, Greeters, Ushers, Child caregivers, Church Staff. I didn't just wake up one morning and decide to start training security teams.
And yes, everyone has their opinion as to what to do if one of my guys approaches you. Great, everyone should have an opinion, might be contrary to what the law says, but, everyone should have an opinion. I personally would not attend a church that I could not CC in. Again, I would not break the law to attend church with a gun. I also would not challenge any security team about carrying in THEIR FACILITY, you can't win. In any facility, church, store, any private property, if you are approached by a security team member and asked to disarm, legally, you MUST do so or leave.
A CHURCH IS PRIVATE PROPERTY! YOU ARE A VISITOR!
EVERY MEMBER OF OUR SECURITY TEAM, MALE AND FEMALE, HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO ASK YOU TO DISARM OR LEAVE. EVERY MEMBER OF OUR SECURITY TEAM HAS THE AUTHORITY TO HAVE YOU ARRESTED FOR REMAINING AFTER FORBIDDEN.
We're not asking you to like those facts, you will respect those facts in our facility.
And no, we do not walk around with our hands on our weapons looking to start trouble. Most of you could identify our team, the general public cannot.
d

[Shawn Braquet]

So now I need to pick out a new pistol and a new church since we have approximately 200-400 people at any given mass. This just got confusing. I apologize for anyone that is offended by my humor, well not really. I do like the idea of a well trained security team. After catching up on the last few pages, for those complaining about not being able to carry in a church, how about joining the team and protecting not only your at home family but your church family as well. 8 hours of yearly training, CC, and participate with the team and boom you are now carrying like you wanted. Maybe I'm missing something here though. Like Duckman said, don't like the law/rules of the church, don't go it's that easy.

[CajunChristian]

Originally Posted by Shawn Braquet

So now I need to pick out a new pistol and a new church since we have approximately 200-400 people at any given mass. This just got confusing. I apologize for anyone that is offended by my humor, well not really. I do like the idea of a well trained security team. After catching up on the last few pages, for those complaining about not being able to carry in a church, how about joining the team and protecting not only your at home family but your church family as well. 8 hours of yearly training, CC, and participate with the team and boom you are now carrying like you wanted. Maybe I'm missing something here though. Like Duckman said, don't like the law/rules of the church, don't go it's that easy.

You're right Shawn. Don't go or work from the inside changing the rules. You can be part of the problem or part of the solution. Don't like the rules, become part of the team, but, remember, our team trains much more than 8 hours yearly. So you might want to check into their training schedule before joining. We have mandatory qualifying every 3 months. Most of our training sessions are mandatory. It is either your ministry or it isn't. We don't accept "I don't have time to train", if it is your ministry, you will arrange your priorities to fit. If you join simply to carry a gun, it's probably is not your ministry. Everyone has a God given talent. If protecting the flock is not yours, don't join, you will be miserable. A security team is not an afterthought. Join for the right reasons.
D

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by CajunChristian

You're right Shawn. Don't go or work from the inside changing the rules. You can be part of the problem or part of the solution. Don't like the rules, become part of the team, but, remember, our team trains much more than 8 hours yearly. So you might want to check into their training schedule before joining. We have mandatory qualifying every 3 months. Most of our training sessions are mandatory. It is either your ministry or it isn't. We don't accept "I don't have time to train", if it is your ministry, you will arrange your priorities to fit. If you join simply to carry a gun, it's probably is not your ministry. Everyone has a God given talent. If protecting the flock is not yours, don't join, you will be miserable. A security team is not an afterthought. Join for the right reasons.
D

A lot of people with a ccp would have a snowballs chance in hell of passing a tactical qualification course. No joke I saw a woman who had never fired a weapon in her life pass the state required course. Some instuctions from the RO on how her weapon functioned and sight alignment and she was able to pass. It wasn't pretty but she passed. Kind of scarey

[Shawn Braquet]

Originally Posted by duckman1911

A lot of people with a ccp would have a snowballs chance in hell of passing a tactical qualification course. No joke I saw a woman who had never fired a weapon in her life pass the state required course. Some instuctions from the RO on how her weapon functioned and sight alignment and she was able to pass. It wasn't pretty but she passed. Kind of scarey

Couldn't agree more, some people I know with a CCP I wouldn't trust with a super soaker 2000. More the reason why a well organized security team would not want members to carry in church.

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by Shawn Braquet

Couldn't agree more, some people I know with a CCP I wouldn't trust with a super soaker 2000. More the reason why a well organized security team would not want members to carry in church.

Agreed. I think there have been many valid points presented for both sides of the issue. Pray it never comes to that for anyone but unfortunately we don't get to choose when a fight is coming. If we could there would not be a fight.

[Shawn Braquet]

No doubt, it's really a shame to think of where you have to worry about your family or your own safety when going in public now days.

[marty f]

My 13 yr old son is safer and a better shot then most CC. Why? because I started training him at 8yrs old. He will unfortunately grow up in an era that will require him to protect his self and his family daily.