Answering the Libertarian argument for drug legalization

[Clampy]

Originally Posted by AceArcher

In all seriousness W ask your brother if he was introduced to other drugs like coke, meth etc... by the dealers he bought his weed from.


Or did he just decide all on his own to "get a new drug"

He could have just wanted a new one. People get like that when sometimes. It's just their personality. It's not one drugs fault or the other. I smoked a cig and drank a beer before weed.

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by "W"

It falls into the people you have around you that bring you down.......


Yes Im sure he could of just been an addict but when he started smoking weed he wanted more and the only way to get more was with the ones who smoked it all the time... So now he is hanging with drug dealers and thugs just to get high and that lead to what
Stealing from his own family for money
Breaking in others homes for money
doing what ever it took to get weed....until he found that weed with cocaine was even better but more money was needed so ....You go on and steal bigger things and soo on


You spend time with mothers and fathers of teens who started on Weed and ask them if you think it should be legal

look at your statment that i bolded... if it were legalized and regulated then there would have been no dealers / drug thugs for him to hang with. We have succeeded in regulating sale of alcohol and cigs to underage kids, why do you think we could not do the same with something else?

If it were legalized and regulated... your brother and his family might well have avoided the hell that he put them through.

[Clampy]

Originally Posted by "W"

It falls into the people you have around you that bring you down.......


Yes Im sure he could of just been an addict but when he started smoking weed he wanted more and the only way to get more was with the ones who smoked it all the time... So now he is hanging with drug dealers and thugs just to get high and that lead to what
Stealing from his own family for money
Breaking in others homes for money
doing what ever it took to get weed....until he found that weed with cocaine was even better but more money was needed so ....You go on and steal bigger things and soo on


You spend time with mothers and fathers of teens who started on Weed and ask them if you think it should be legal

You can take it a lot of ways. Some people will always be addicts and act that way. It's a small %. That doesn't mean the rest of the world had to suffer because a select few can't keep the wheels on. obviously this hits home for you and I don't wanna argue with you.

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by Clampy

You can take it a lot of ways. Some people will always be addicts and act that way. It's a small %. That doesn't mean the rest of the world had to suffer because a select few can't keep the wheels on. obviously this hits home for you and I don't wanna argue with you.

You know, good point. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We have already went over all this stuff more than enough. No reason to rehash it just to make someone get angry.

But i do seriously hope W makes my meme... I would cherish that stuff if it were half as good as yours Clampy!

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Goooh

So why did you put a vote in place?

I wanted there to be a clear visual indicator at the top of every page that a significant number of those advocating legalization of cannabis in this discussion weren't too concerned with increased access by adolescents and that many were also not going to be content with marijuana, but also advocated legalization of all drugs.

A survey in an internet discussion forum does not reveal the positions of the general population, but it is a useful tool for revealing the positions of participants in the discussion.

It is also notable that in their letter for the actual exercise of legislative power, the forum participant(s) advocating that exercise say nothing about drafting a law for legalization with a lower age limit of 21 to restrict access to adults, nothing about keeping felony penalties for providing access to those under 21, nothing about a blood alcohol limit for drivers (say 5 ng/ml like legislation Washington and Colorado), and nothing about maintaining current restrictions on manufacture, importation, and distribution of other drugs. The actual legislation they are advocating opens the gate without any reasonable boundaries.

Current scientific information about marijuana has been summarized in the AAP policy statement “Marijuana: A Continuing Concern for Pediatricians.” Some of the significant neuropharmacologic, cognitive, behavioral, and somatic consequences of acute and long-term marijuana use are well known and include negative effects on short-term memory, concentration, attention span, motivation, and problem solving, which clearly interfere with learning; adverse effects on coordination, judgment, reaction time, and tracking ability, which contribute substantially to unintentional deaths and injuries among adolescents (especially those associated with motor vehicles); and negative health effects with repeated use similar to effects seen with smoking tobacco. - Legalization of Marijuana: Potential Impact on Youth

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Current scientific information about marijuana has been summarized in the AAP policy statement “Marijuana: A Continuing Concern for Pediatricians.” Some of the significant neuropharmacologic, cognitive, behavioral, and somatic consequences of acute and long-term marijuana use are well known and include negative effects on short-term memory, concentration, attention span, motivation, and problem solving, which clearly interfere with learning; adverse effects on coordination, judgment, reaction time, and tracking ability, which contribute substantially to unintentional deaths and injuries among adolescents (especially those associated with motor vehicles); and negative health effects with repeated use similar to effects seen with smoking tobacco. - Legalization of Marijuana: Potential Impact on Youth

Drug use in America tends to follow cycles, often with one generation having to relearn the experiences of previous ones. Ninety years after the first cocaine epidemic, cocaine use began to increase in the 1970s and escalated substantially from 1980 to 1995. Because it had been so long since the previous epidemic, cocaine was perceived to be a safe drug. In a chapter on cocaine in the 1980 edition of a prominent textbook of psychiatry, the authors wrote: “If it is used no more than two or three times a week, cocaine creates no serious problems.”18 In 1977, 10% of 18- to 25-year-olds had used cocaine; that proportion doubled to 20% in 1979. By 1985, one third of 18- to 25-year-olds had used cocaine, as had 17.3% of 12th graders.15 Only with subsequent widespread publicity about the health risks and addictive properties of cocaine and the epidemic of crack cocaine did cocaine use among young people begin to wane.- Legalization of Marijuana: Potential Impact on Youth

[cgoods17]

Like W stated above, it does have a lot to do with who you hang around with. My dad used to tell me you are who you hang out with through high school and i never realized what he was talking about until many years later..

But to sit here and say that weed made people start other drugs... well what about beer? I didnt try cigarettes until i got drunk! what about fat chicks? I didnt pork my first fatty until i got drunk! (now im a chubby chaser)..

In all seriousness, if it is legal or not, the kids that want to get it are going to get it whether if its from a convenient store or from the dealer down the street.. **** they will get it from the guy at school!

Personally i think everybody is worried to much about pot when you got perscription pills that do more harm than weed!

Open your eyes people? this is a new day and age and people are going to smoke pot whenever and however the hell they want to! and there is nothing you can do about it..
(no im not a stoner anymore due to my responsibilities i have now, but before i grew up you better believe this guy was easing his mind on the reg.)

[MathGeek]

Truth About Marijuana Being a Gateway Drug - YouTube

Truth About Marijuana Being a Gateway Drug - YouTube

[cgoods17]

that video is bogus

[Clampy]

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1377093201.348273.jpg


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[Clampy]

Brain surgeon > partnership for a drug free American.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cFY6IgP...%3DcFY6IgPgyB8


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[MissSmallAimsSmall]

"The majority of cannabis-related admissions among youth result from referrals either from the justice or educational systems, and it is probable that at least some of these referrals were motivated more by concern over the future consequences of early initiation to cannabis use than by apparent negative effects of current cannabis use. A major focus of concern is the extent to which early cannabis use may increase the risks for escalation to other drug use and drug dependence. Stage theory posits that there is an invariant sequence in initiation and use of drugs, with use of cannabis preceding the use of "hard" drugs such as cocaine and heroin. This theory has been highly influential in drug policy debates and has provided a major rationale for sustaining prohibition against cannabis, as it is assumed that delaying or preventing early cannabis use may reduce risks of other illicit drug use.

While this broad theory has found some empirical support, such data on temporal sequencing do not establish that the use of one drug causes the use of drugs higher up the sequence. Rather, the observed pattern of initiation and use may reflect other factors such as availability and access. Nonetheless, several studies using event history analysis and regression analyses have reported that early initiation to cannabis use remains a significant risk factor for both the use of other drugs and experiencing drug-related problems." -Escalation of Drug Use in Early-Onset Cannabis Users vs Co-twin Controls

[AceArcher]

We are not even beating a dead horse anymore... we are just beating some stuff that vaguely resembles horsemeat.

[Clampy]

Social Objection to Ending Prohibition
“What about the ‘gateway theory’ that says all marijuana users go on to hard drugs?”
Fact: this theory has been debunked over and over. Read this excerpt from Drug War Facts for numerous Ph.D. research disproving the so-called “gateway theory.”
Conclusion: the so-called “gateway theory” is nothing more than an attempt to make people afraid of marijuana, a slander that it will somehow cause insatiable interest in consuming any and every drug. That is a lie, it does not cause a person to want to try other drugs.
What are the real reasons the so-called “gateway theory” came in to being?
Some people tried marijuana and found it to be nothing like the fear mongers claimed. Those people supposed the fear-mongers were lying about other drugs and tried those out of curiosity, not due to something inherent in marijuana.
Due to drug prohibition, the black-market controls the sale of all illegal drugs. Since drug dealers, like every other for-profit enterprise, seem to only care about profits, they have a financial incentive to steer customers towards substances that bring them greater profits.
- Christian's against Prohibition

This thread is a gateway to a headache.


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[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

I wanted there to be a clear visual indicator at the top of every page that a significant number of those advocating legalization of cannabis in this discussion weren't too concerned with increased access by adolescents and that many were also not going to be content with marijuana, but also advocated legalization of all drugs.

A survey in an internet discussion forum does not reveal the positions of the general population, but it is a useful tool for revealing the positions of participants in the discussion.

Again.... with the crying. You did not put this survey in place to give a clear visual indicator of where people stand, If you had wanted to do that you would have left the survey results open where you and everyone else could see how each individual voted.

The survey represents the viewpoint, of the "SaltyCajun" microcosm. Nothing more, nothing less. It may fall in line with surveys of greater scope or it may not.

Originally Posted by MathGeek

It is also notable that in their letter for the actual exercise of legislative power, the forum participant(s) advocating that exercise say nothing about drafting a law for legalization with a lower age limit of 21 to restrict access to adults, nothing about keeping felony penalties for providing access to those under 21, nothing about a blood alcohol limit for drivers (say 5 ng/ml like legislation Washington and Colorado), and nothing about maintaining current restrictions on manufacture, importation, and distribution of other drugs. The actual legislation they are advocating opens the gate without any reasonable boundaries.

Do we really need to have a remedial learning session with you? Do you really need a reminder of just exactly how many times I and others have clearly stated that we do NOT advocate underage use of ANY drug. We do advocate legalization and regulation, which has been shown by the overwhelming amount of scientific studies that are non biased, current, and of sufficient scope, to be the ONLY REAL PATH to a significant reduction in drug use.

Your stating that I and others advocate underage use of drugs, is the equivalent to me stating your preferred and personally used method of getting high is to mainline opiates. (since you have not raised any real objections to today's rampant prescription drug abuse, and the lack of controls upon it)

In other words it is an attempt on your part to create association via misinformation, and quite frankly lies.

I unlike you am not on a mission here to identify "who" believes and to then sew onto their shirt a star so that everyone can know "who" they identify with. Instead my purpose here is to offer reasoning based on the 17,000+ scientific studies showing every possible benefit of cannabis. And to also make a case for methods of regulation and control that will reduce abuse among all, and to explore the viable medicinal qualities of the plant.

All that you have advocated MG is a continuation of the same policies that are creating more and more users / abusers / dealers / cartels / and wars.

The four main lobbying groups that advocate continued criminilization of cannabis are Alcohol, Tobacco, Pharma, and Prison lobbys.

The money committed from those 4 lobbies to ensure cannibis stays illegal is ABSURD. The only thing that we need to do is allow them to find ways to patent cannabis products and those products will become legal INSTANTLY.

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

It is also notable that in their letter for the actual exercise of legislative power, the forum participant(s) advocating that exercise say nothing about drafting a law for legalization with a lower age limit of 21 to restrict access to adults, nothing about keeping felony penalties for providing access to those under 21, nothing about a blood alcohol limit for drivers (say 5 ng/ml like legislation Washington and Colorado), and nothing about maintaining current restrictions on manufacture, importation, and distribution of other drugs. The actual legislation they are advocating opens the gate without any reasonable boundaries.

Using the above quote from Mathgeek as an example i am now going to demonstrate how association is truly a fine scientific method.

It is notable that mathgeek originally discussed child prostitution, another forum commenter stated that comparing child prostitution to cannabis use was "hurting his argument". Since Mathgeek did not dispute this with the other commenter or offer any further explanation we can infer the following.

1) Mathgeek supports ongoing child prostitution, and the organizations that fund them.

2) Because of his support for child prostitution, there is a very high probability of likelihood that Mathgeek is also a pedophile.


Does anyone else see that it's not surprising that Real Science does not use this method?

I hope you got something better than this in your bag of tricks MG.

[Clampy]

Why on earth would you still want it to be a FELONY for youth possession. I'm for stiff penalties for youths but a felony would just disenfranchise someone at a young age effectively giving them no other option to live that lifestyle.

" why yes sir you are qualified for this job but it seems you have a felony for DRUGS when you were 17. I'm sorry we can't employ you"

Mandatory treatment prolly would be better but then they would do just like they do now when arrested. " would you like to go to rehab or jail " duh! Then they take those numbers and say " look at all the young people in treatment for for pot "



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[mcjaredsandwich]

Originally Posted by "W"

legalize a drug that has ruined millions on millions of kids lives and lead them to other heavier drugs


My brother started on weed and lead him to other stuff and he will tell you that weed is what got him to try cocaine,meth and what ever the hell else he did....

Do you know the hell he caused my parents for years over this one harmless drug you call "WEED"????

Come sit with my mom for 1 hour and tell her you think weed should be legal...... Let her show you what weed did to our family ? Let her show you the money spent by both dad and mom on my brothers rehabs...


Yes now he is clean but He will stand before anyone of you and tell all of you that WEED is what lead him down the road that almost took his life

Substitute "alcohol" in place of "weed" and you increase this stories occurrence 100 fold and probably add violence in at least half.

[mriguy]

Originally Posted by mcjaredsandwich

Substitute "alcohol" in place of "weed" and you increase this stories occurrence 100 fold and probably add violence in at least half.

But Sammich! Alchohol is legal!:*****:

["W"]

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