Saltwater Intrusion/Saltwater Barrier/Weirs

[Duck Butter]

Gonna go ahead and start a new thread on this because the other got off-track but the gist is the same

The take home message is that saltwater intrusion is a problem, will be a problem, and has been a problem for over 50 years it appears. The Ship Channel is the life blood of Lake Charles industry, but when it was dug that allowed saltwater a direct route into an area that didn't normally get saline water for long periods of time.

Saltwater Barrier

This seems to be the 'elephant in the room', no one has addressed this structure in the other discussions about weirs. The entire reason this was put there is to keep saltwater from getting where its not supposed to be (exactly the same concept as Grand Bayou Weir). This structure was put in over 50 years ago with the same reasoning (keep saltwater out of places its not wanted - i.e rice fields). Keep in mind this is over 30 MILES from the Gulf. Here is a link
http://www.mvn.usace.army.mil/Portal...lcasieuSWB.pdf
per page 2 of this document:

The Problem
While the deeper channel brought increased shipping and greater prosperity to the area, it also allowed saltwater from the Gulf to migrate further inland. The intruding saltwater threatened the upper Calcasieu River, which provides water for irrigating the region's rice fields. The saltwater which kills many types of vegetation, began to destroy some of the sensitive wetlands of the Calcasieu River Basin.

The Solution
To solve the saltwater intrusion problem, in 1962 Congress modified the existing authorization for the Calcasieu River Project to include construction of a dam upstream of Lake Charles. The structure, commonly referred to as the Calcasieu River Saltwater Barrier, was designed to keep the saltwater from traveling north, yet not to hinder commercial navigation of the river.

Weirs
The purpose of the weirs are exactly the same as the saltwater barrier (essentially it is a saltwater barrier). These are 10 miles? from the Gulf of Mexico whereas the saltwater barrier is over 30 miles from the Gulf so it makes sense that the salinity here is going to rise faster than the salinity by the saltwater barrier and probably be more saline for longer periods of the year, so for the same reason (protecting ag land) is why they were put in. There are rice farms back there, just like the rice farms the saltwater barrier was trying to protect 50 years ago. Rice farms DO produce ducks, and YES people get to hunt them and are benefitting from saltwater NOT getting back there, but I feel like we are all benefitting from it as well. That are keeps ducks in the area for us all to ultimately shoot. There is also a National Wildlife Refuge there that is negatively influenced by saltwater
http://www.fws.gov/swlarefugecomplex/cameronprairie/

The main focus of Sabine and Cameron Prairie are for waterfowl. Waterfowl that we all get to hunt and they manage specifically for these and saltwater has a negative effect on waterfowl foods.

Per the above document
Cameron Prairie National Wildlife Refuge was established to preserve and protect wintering waterfowl and their habitat. It was the first refuge established under the auspices of the North American Waterfowl Management Plan. The refuge is located approximately 25 miles southeast of Lake Charles, Louisiana, in north central Cameron Parish. It contains 9,621 acres that include fresh marsh, coastal prairie, and old rice fields (currently moist soil units). Located at the convergence of two major flyways, the refuge has an important role in management for migratory birds.

Marshes

4 types in Louisiana - freshwater, intermediate, brackish, and salt and here is a link to what is there
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2008/1224/pdf/OFR2008-1224.pdf

They are completely different from one another. They share a common name (marsh) but that is it, they function totally different, just like other things that share common names are not the same. Trout (speckled trout and white trout are different), forest (bottomland hardwood forest is not the same as longleaf pine forest) snapper (red snapper are not mangrove snapper). Behind Grand Bayou weirs you will find brackish marsh which is totally different from salt marsh. It can not handle highly saline water for very long periods. It dies. We have seen that.

["W"]

"In"

Page 1


Duck Grass

[PaulMyers]

Originally Posted by "W"

"In"

Page 1


Duck Grass

You are absolutely correct "W". Duck grass is the natural vegetation that has always been there. The state and federal government are trying to keep it that way. See you do understand, you just don't like it.

[Spunt Drag]

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by "W"

"In"

Page 1


Duck Grass

That 'duck grass' benefits everyone who hunts in the surrounding area Whenever land comes up for sale or lease, if it happens to be a near a refuge it generally costs more. Wonder why anyone would want to hunt near a refuge?

[homerun]

Could even compare to saltwater locks on icc waterway by lng

[slickfish]

W=But but but how am i going to catch any fish? I only know one place to go an they shut the door on me. I've gotta business to run.

[Andy C]

Originally Posted by Duck Butter

Gonna go ahead and start a new thread on this because the other got off-track but the gist is the same

The take home message is that saltwater intrusion is a problem, will be a problem, and has been a problem for over 50 years it appears. The Ship Channel is the life blood of Lake Charles industry, but when it was dug that allowed saltwater a direct route into an area that didn't normally get saline water for long periods of time.

Saltwater Barrier

This seems to be the 'elephant in the room', no one has addressed this structure in the other discussions about weirs. The entire reason this was put there is to keep saltwater from getting where its not supposed to be (exactly the same concept as Grand Bayou Weir). This structure was put in over 50 years ago with the same reasoning (keep saltwater out of places its not wanted - i.e rice fields). Keep in mind this is over 30 MILES from the Gulf. Here is a link
http://www.mvn.usace.army.mil/Portal...lcasieuSWB.pdf
per page 2 of this document:

The Problem
While the deeper channel brought increased shipping and greater prosperity to the area, it also allowed saltwater from the Gulf to migrate further inland. The intruding saltwater threatened the upper Calcasieu River, which provides water for irrigating the region's rice fields. The saltwater which kills many types of vegetation, began to destroy some of the sensitive wetlands of the Calcasieu River Basin.

The Solution
To solve the saltwater intrusion problem, in 1962 Congress modified the existing authorization for the Calcasieu River Project to include construction of a dam upstream of Lake Charles. The structure, commonly referred to as the Calcasieu River Saltwater Barrier, was designed to keep the saltwater from traveling north, yet not to hinder commercial navigation of the river.

Weirs
The purpose of the weirs are exactly the same as the saltwater barrier (essentially it is a saltwater barrier). These are 10 miles? from the Gulf of Mexico whereas the saltwater barrier is over 30 miles from the Gulf so it makes sense that the salinity here is going to rise faster than the salinity by the saltwater barrier and probably be more saline for longer periods of the year, so for the same reason (protecting ag land) is why they were put in. There are rice farms back there, just like the rice farms the saltwater barrier was trying to protect 50 years ago. Rice farms DO produce ducks, and YES people get to hunt them and are benefitting from saltwater NOT getting back there, but I feel like we are all benefitting from it as well. That are keeps ducks in the area for us all to ultimately shoot. There is also a National Wildlife Refuge there that is negatively influenced by saltwater
http://www.fws.gov/swlarefugecomplex/cameronprairie/

The main focus of Sabine and Cameron Prairie are for waterfowl. Waterfowl that we all get to hunt and they manage specifically for these and saltwater has a negative effect on waterfowl foods.

Per the above document
Cameron Prairie National Wildlife Refuge was established to preserve and protect wintering waterfowl and their habitat. It was the first refuge established under the auspices of the North American Waterfowl Management Plan. The refuge is located approximately 25 miles southeast of Lake Charles, Louisiana, in north central Cameron Parish. It contains 9,621 acres that include fresh marsh, coastal prairie, and old rice fields (currently moist soil units). Located at the convergence of two major flyways, the refuge has an important role in management for migratory birds.

Marshes

4 types in Louisiana - freshwater, intermediate, brackish, and salt and here is a link to what is there
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2008/1224/pdf/OFR2008-1224.pdf

They are completely different from one another. They share a common name (marsh) but that is it, they function totally different, just like other things that share common names are not the same. Trout (speckled trout and white trout are different), forest (bottomland hardwood forest is not the same as longleaf pine forest) snapper (red snapper are not mangrove snapper). Behind Grand Bayou weirs you will find brackish marsh which is totally different from salt marsh. It can not handle highly saline water for very long periods. It dies. We have seen that.

I agree with all that. My question is why is it not helping in 50 + year's??? Why is the "marsh" any of the 4 kinds ya'll talk about still leaving???
1 cause of the storm's
2 the debris coming through did a lot more damage then the saltwater!
3 why is the "marsh" Sabine / West side of hwy 27 all coming back??
4 when was the last time ya'll were West or North of the trapper cabin?? Unless you jumped the leaves ya'll can only see from the road!!
5 if some of the canals would be back opened up you would get a ton of fresh water from Sabine lake, like it was in the past.
6 no one cares about the "marsh" other then hunting it for ducks!
7 thats what protects our home's and families, don't care if it's salt or fresh.
8 I dont know for fact, but heard from a lot of people on the east side of Cameron prairie fwr and a few fish and game foke. It's political and two big land owner are going to bank BIG!!
9 need to pass a law navigatiable waterways are far game to anyone that hunts or fish.
10 50-60 year old laws and ways are not helping none of us!! ( if that were the case we would be killing 3-400 bird's a blind and 1000 fish a day.)
11 everything comes full circle( look at what you wore and now what your kids want to where now)
12 the system will adapt!! ( if man don't keep trying to f..... it up)
13 why are we being selfish in this natural cycles??

Just something for all of us to thank about. And it's just my observants.

So check your egos at the door!!


I could care less if I kill a duck or catch a fish again, it's too late for most our kids and maybe our grandkids??


Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by Andy C

I agree with all that. My question is why is it not helping in 50 + year's??? Why is the "marsh" any of the 4 kinds ya'll talk about still leaving???

Is it leaving or coming back? Post 3 says its coming back. Which is it? I believe there may be some areas coming back, but its a net loss overall.

1 cause of the storm's
2 the debris coming through did a lot more damage then the saltwater!
3 why is the "marsh" Sabine / West side of hwy 27 all coming back??
4 when was the last time ya'll were West or North of the trapper cabin?? Unless you jumped the leaves ya'll can only see from the road!!
5 if some of the canals would be back opened up you would get a ton of fresh water from Sabine lake, like it was in the past.
6 no one cares about the "marsh" other then hunting it for ducks!
7 thats what protects our home's and families, don't care if it's salt or fresh.

We are actually agreeing here. But brackish marsh doesn't turn into salt marsh overnight. There will not be any marsh there to protect our homes and families. Brackish marsh all has to die and then be replaced by salt marsh but it doesn't work that way. Marshes are pretty much all held together by plant roots. That organic soil is highly erodable and if there are no plant roots to hold it together it washes away. There would be no substrate for salt marsh plants to even germinate on, it would be open water - which is exactly what the aerial photos that show land loss are showing. What once was marsh, is now open water

8 I dont know for fact, but heard from a lot of people on the east side of Cameron prairie fwr and a few fish and game foke. It's political and two big land owner are going to bank BIG!!
9 need to pass a law navigatiable waterways are far game to anyone that hunts or fish.

Navigable waterways does not equal being able to hunt and fish there. If a flood comes up and covers private land, I don't think someone should be able to hunt there even though its navigable, and thats another thread altogether, not going there!

10 50-60 year old laws and ways are not helping none of us!! ( if that were the case we would be killing 3-400 bird's a blind and 1000 fish a day.)

What laws?

11 everything comes full circle( look at what you wore and now what your kids want to where now)

I never thought the 80s fashions would ever come back but they sure did

12 the system will adapt!! ( if man don't keep trying to f..... it up)

The Ship Channel is the culprit and wiers and the saltwater barriers are there simply to mitigate for the saltwater intrusion that it brings with it. Without the Ship Channel, Lake Charles area wouldn't be much.

13 why are we being selfish in this natural cycles??

Just something for all of us to thank about. And it's just my observants.

So check your egos at the door!!


I could care less if I kill a duck or catch a fish again, it's too late for most our kids and maybe our grandkids??


Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

Sorry I am really not trying to have an ego or anything if it comes off that way. I am having to deal with W and you have to play him at his own game to get a point across There have been many many mistruths spreading and just trying to put out some info. You can never ever have 100% agreement on anything, but W would argue about the sky being blue

[duckman1911]

DB the sky isnt blue. Lol just messin with ya.

[River Less Paddled]

It doesn't seem like the saltwater barrier serves much of a purpose. I think the gate has been open for boat traffic everytime I've been there. Even if it isn't open, the water is often overflowing the gates. It just doesn't really seem like much of a "barrier".