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  #1  
Old 03-02-2017, 09:59 PM
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marshrunner757 marshrunner757 is offline
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Default Commercial redfish harvest

Just read an article on KPLC about the 30 day crabbing ban. The crabbers are saying they need to open redfish up to commercial again. What's y'alls thoughts? Mine are this. Commercial fishermen have destroyed the oyster reefs, they basically own the red snapper and back in the day of gill nets and strike netters you couldn't hardly catch a redfish. Point being, our state allows them to rape our resources with little to no oversight and based on zero science. Give them an inch and they take a mile. But hey, I'm sure the CCA will step in and block this. They are here for the sportsmen right?

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Old 03-03-2017, 07:18 AM
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The explosion in the redfish population since the bans and limit reductions in the 1990s has taken its toll and probably having an ongoing negative impact on the blue crab population.

Redfish eat a lot more blue crabs than people do, and there are a lot more redfish than people eating crabs.

A larger redfish harvest would both be sustainable and help the blue crab population rebound. That's rather firmly grounded science.

Whether to accomplish that through increased commercial or recreational harvest is a political question.

I would prefer to see increased recreational limits on redfish both in state and federal waters. I would also like to see increased black drum limits both for commercial and recreational fisherman. Some way to thin the gafftop herd would also benefit blue crabs in Louisiana.
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:40 AM
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I agree MG. I just hope this isn't handed over to the commercials. If it is, within 5-10 years, we'll be right back where we started.

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Old 03-03-2017, 08:30 AM
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dont think that will ever happen again....


Ones saying the Crab population is down are the same ones who think Oyster population in Big Lake is healthy and plentiful
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Old 03-03-2017, 09:27 AM
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dont think that will ever happen again....


Ones saying the Crab population is down are the same ones who think Oyster population in Big Lake is healthy and plentiful


these are not one in the same

you dont think the crab population is down?
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Old 03-03-2017, 12:21 PM
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these are not one in the same

you dont think the crab population is down?

idk much about the science of "crabs" but what i do know is we catch a limit every time we go to Rockafella. Often times, very quickly which hasn't changed in roughly 15 years for us.
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Old 03-03-2017, 03:51 PM
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these are not one in the same

you dont think the crab population is down?
I dont crab but I don't hear from our crabbers ever saying it sucks... We keep our fish heads for them to use and they seem to be catching crabs steady.

Only time you hear them say its slow is hard front or lots of rain
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:19 PM
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these are not one in the same

you dont think the crab population is down?



No I don't think its down. I don't think the crab population is down because it's not down.
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  #9  
Old 03-03-2017, 05:29 PM
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The data shows that while the crab population is down convincingly for Louisiana as a whole, it is not necessarily down in every part of the state. The data I've seen for Big Lake suggests crabs are not down in Big Lake.

So, it seems like the crab restrictions are really put in place due to needs in east and central Louisiana. I can't really blame them. If only SWLA were left open, it would get hit pretty hard.
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Old 03-03-2017, 05:44 PM
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The data shows that while the crab population is down convincingly for Louisiana as a whole, it is not necessarily down in every part of the state. The data I've seen for Big Lake suggests crabs are not down in Big Lake.

So, it seems like the crab restrictions are really put in place due to needs in east and central Louisiana. I can't really blame them. If only SWLA were left open, it would get hit pretty hard.
what data? where is this data?
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:37 PM
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No commercial redfish and red snapper. Heck maybe the state just wants all of the millions of old crab traps picked up. I don't think they ever pick up the traps. It's just littered the bayous and lakes.


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Old 03-03-2017, 07:18 PM
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Pleas post the source of any data you use in a post or claim to have seen. That way we know you are not just pulling stuff out of thin air.
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:37 PM
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No commercial redfish and red snapper. Heck maybe the state just wants all of the millions of old crab traps picked up. I don't think they ever pick up the traps. It's just littered the bayous and lakes.


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That's my thoughts also. If you run Vermilion Bay, there are literally hundreds of crab trap floats all over the place, especially at the mouths of bayous and drains. If you're running in the dark, it's really hard to dodge all the crab trap floats.
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Old 03-03-2017, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by AlexOrtego View Post
idk much about the science of "crabs" but what i do know is we catch a limit every time we go to Rockafella. Often times, very quickly which hasn't changed in roughly 15 years for us.
Perhaps because rockafeller isn't open for commercial crabbing is why
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Old 03-04-2017, 09:34 AM
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I wouldn't mind the red limit being moved up to 10 a day. same size limits.

and yea, crabbing sucks compared to how it was 20 years ago, especially in vermillion bay.


you cannot open redfish back to commercial fishing. that's like giving your daughter to a bunch of rapists.
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  #16  
Old 03-04-2017, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by seachaser250 View Post
what data? where is this data?
LDWF shared their data with us, because we asked nicely and it was related to a project we are working on.

As JBE appointees have gained influence in LDWF, their willingness to share data has declined, as they prefer not to have their mandates second guessed.

While we are not under non-disclosure regarding the LDWF data in our possession, my colleagues and I have agreed between ourselves not to share it in ways not related to the intended purposes for which we obtained it. Our concern is that becoming a data pipeline to the public might reduce LDWF's willingness to share data with us in the future.

But the bottom line is that the crab closure is based on statewide data showing a decline in crab population. That statewide decline is not apparent in the Big Lake data. Big Lake as an ecosystem really is much different from the rest of the state in many ways.

It is only a hypothesis, but I tend to think the reduced crab population in most of the state may be related to the oil spill and dispersants back in 2010 and following years. Key parts of the crab life cycle depend on affected areas. Calcasieu was not directly effected by the spill or dispersants, so crabs remain healthy here.

But keep in mind, leaving Big Lake open for crabbing while the rest of the state is closed would produce intensely focussed harvest pressure that would most likely be harmful. It would also cause an enforcement challenge on the ban in the rest of the state with violators claiming their market crabs came from Big Lake.
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  #17  
Old 03-04-2017, 09:03 PM
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A 2 month crab season is what they should go with. My research shows that would be the optimal balance. The Grey's shared information with me that confirms my conclusion. I can't share the information since they are not ready for full disclosure.
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  #18  
Old 03-04-2017, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathGeek View Post
LDWF shared their data with us, because we asked nicely and it was related to a project we are working on.



As JBE appointees have gained influence in LDWF, their willingness to share data has declined, as they prefer not to have their mandates second guessed.



While we are not under non-disclosure regarding the LDWF data in our possession, my colleagues and I have agreed between ourselves not to share it in ways not related to the intended purposes for which we obtained it. Our concern is that becoming a data pipeline to the public might reduce LDWF's willingness to share data with us in the future.



But the bottom line is that the crab closure is based on statewide data showing a decline in crab population. That statewide decline is not apparent in the Big Lake data. Big Lake as an ecosystem really is much different from the rest of the state in many ways.



It is only a hypothesis, but I tend to think the reduced crab population in most of the state may be related to the oil spill and dispersants back in 2010 and following years. Key parts of the crab life cycle depend on affected areas. Calcasieu was not directly effected by the spill or dispersants, so crabs remain healthy here.



But keep in mind, leaving Big Lake open for crabbing while the rest of the state is closed would produce intensely focussed harvest pressure that would most likely be harmful. It would also cause an enforcement challenge on the ban in the rest of the state with violators claiming their market crabs came from Big Lake.


There was no oil in vermilion bay or cocodrie/dularge either. We're the numbers down in those areas?
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  #19  
Old 03-05-2017, 01:27 AM
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There was no oil in vermilion bay or cocodrie/dularge either. We're the numbers down in those areas?
There was a lot of oil in Terrebone Parrish. Coon point was heavily oiled. I watched planes spraying beach of last island months after spill. Wish that wasn't the case but it was.
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  #20  
Old 03-05-2017, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by meaux fishing View Post
There was no oil in vermilion bay or cocodrie/dularge either. We're the numbers down in those areas?
It was not only about the oil, but about the dispersants and whether the dispersants impacted the areas offshore where the crabs spend the larval and juvenile parts of their life cycle. Crabs are carried back into estuaries on the tides as they near adulthood so it would be inaccurate to suggest estuary-by-estuary population effects.

Further, the underharvest of predators due to short seasons, low limits, and closures in east and central Louisiana probably had a bigger effect than in SWLA. The exploding red snapper population is much further off the coast in SWLA and does not have near the overlap with the offshore life stages of crabs as the exploding red snapper population off central and east Louisiana.

Further, fishery closures in much of east and south Louisiana prevented harvest of important predators (drum and redfish) in 2010, and focused both sporting and commercial pressure (black drum trot lines) in SWLA. Fewer drum -> more crabs. Black drum have been on a steady downward trend in SWLA since 2010. Redfish in SWLA have held steady as redfish populations continue to increase in central and eastern Louisiana (a combination of the ongoing ban in federal waters, absence of commercial harvest, and recreational closure in most of the 2010 season after the spill in many areas.)

The bottom line is you can't have infinite predators (redfish and drum) without the prey population taking a hit (crabs). Want more crabs? Kill more of the things that eat them.
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