Pipeline ROW

[swglenn]

We have been contacted by a company that wants to survey and do other testing on our land with the possibility of installing a pipeline.

What stipulations, if any, do I need to include in our agreement?

What is the going rate for pipeline ROW's? One person said it is figured as so many $/in of pipe/ft. of ROW.

[Spunt Drag]

As much as I appreciate the SaltyCajun Brain Trust, I would contact an attorney who specializes in such.

[Mako19]

My dad just went through all of this a couple of years ago when a gas transmission company ran a pipeline (I think it was a 12" I.D. pipe and high pressure) across his property. He actually told me this morning that they contacted him again last week to tell him that there was another pipeline coming through. Once they have a ROW they follow it with all other gas/electric transmission lines.

I have contacted him asking for any help he can offer you. He did all of the negotiations with the pipeline company himself and made sure the contract was written to take care off of the concerns that he had for the installation and upkeep of the ROW. He negotiated with the pipeline company for like 6-8 months and ending up getting everything he wanted in the contract and also got nearly double what the original offer was for the land per acre.

Some people just see the big check the pipeline company shows up with and ask where do they sign but that is not always the smartest thing to do. You need to be concerned about upkeep of the ROW, what the company has paid other landowners for their propert, what' size/pressure the line will be which is directly related the the risk of having the pipeline run through your property, and many other issues that you may not think of initially.

Like I said my dad is about to go through all of this again so I am sure he won't mind sharing any documents advice with you. PM me your private email address and I'll send any helpful information on to you as I get it from him.

I am sure there are experts on this site that are much more experienced with this and can give you more/better advice than me. The little I know of the process I learned by attending meetings with my dad and the pipeline company and Lawyers and reading through all of the contracts and emails between all parties. I stayed as envolved as I could be just in case I ever had to take care of something similar to that in the future.

[Mako19]

These are recommendations from a quick text from my Dad:

Don't be too greedy but don't agree to initial offer. EVERYTHING is negotiable. You can expect for them to pay slightly more than what the property is actually worth if you would sale it outright.

You can't stop them from getting the ROW so your focus should be on getting the most money you can and making sure the contract favors your interests and looks out for you rather than protecting the pipeline company.

You want to avoid going to court!
I have spoken to several people who tried to fight it and went to court. After spending who knows how much on lawyers the judge always favors with the pipeline company and usually gives you less money for the property than what you could have negotiated with them.

Get some money for the temporary construction ROW and some for the permanent ROW. (This may be specific to my dad's situation because they used his property as a "construction area" where they welded the joints of pipe together and set up the boring equipment).

Try to get the pipeline company to document some of the money they pay you down as "damages" rather than an actual payment for the property. This will help you with taxes.

If you feel confident with reading and understanding pretty basic contracts don't get a lawyer. It is a waste of money and not really necessary. (Of course this is just an opinion).

Talk to neighbors or anyone you know that has property on the ROW to see how much the pipeline company paid them for their land.
Also, you can find someone who recently sold land around you for top dollar and use that fact in negotiations. If someone just sold an acre for $25k in your area, even though that isn't the going rate you can use it as your example of what property is going for in your area and argue that is what your property is worth.

After reading through the contract carefully you may find a few (or many)mthings that heavily favor the pipeline company's interests.
As stated above EVERYTHING is negotiable and if you aren't comfortable with the way the contract is worded get them to change it. Things such as liability, upkeep of ROW, above the ground equipment, and future maintenance to the pipeline are good examples of what I am talking about.

****My dad is NOT a lawyer! He did all of his own research, got some recommendations from a lawyer, and then spent 6 months negotiating with the pipeline company. A year before this deal an electric transmission company came through with a highline through the same ROW so he did the negotiations for that deal too.

I am just sharing this info to try and help out. I am sure some wil disagree with something (or EVERYTHING) that I have said so please correct me if I am wrong.
Also, bottom line is if you don't feel comfortable doing the negotiation yourself then you probably should pay a lawyer to do it.

I hope this helps and Good Luck. Remember, the people who come offer you the check and negotiate with you work for the pipeline company. They are trying to get them the best deal possible and are not trying to look out for your best interests.

[Mako19]

I found the information pasted below in some old emails between my Dad and me when we were researching gas pipelines to figure out what type and size of pipeline was going on his land and what the operating pressure would be.

You can go to the links and find much more information. What you see below is just what I copied and pasted to email to my dad.

[SIZE=3]The Transmission System[/SIZE]
From the gathering system, the natural gas moves into the transmission system, which is composed of about 272,000 miles of high-strength steel pipe ranging from 20 inches to 42 inches in diameter.
These large transmission lines for natural gas can be compared to the nation's interstate highway system for cars. They move large amounts of natural gas thousands of miles from the producing regions to local distribution companies (LDCs). The pressure of gas in each section of line typically ranges from 200 pounds to 1,500 pounds per square inch, depending on the type of area in which the pipeline is operating. As a safety measure, pipelines are designed and constructed to handle much more pressure than is ever actually reached in the system. For example, pipelines in more populated areas operate at less than one-half of their design pressure level.
Many major interstate pipelines are "looped" -- there are two or more lines running parallel to each other in the same right of way. This provides maximum capacity during periods of peak demand. The pipeline rights of way are usually 100 feet wide and are leased from landowners with restrictions on construction activities to minimize the potential for accidental damage.
The Distribution System

From the gate station, natural gas moves into distribution lines or "mains" that range from 2 inches to more than 24 inches in diameter. Within each distribution system, there are sections that operate at different pressures, with regulators controlling the pressure. Some regulators are remotely controlled by the utility to change pressures in parts of the system to optimize efficiency. Generally speaking, the closer natural gas gets to a customer, the smaller the pipe diameter is and the lower the pressure is.
The gas utility's central control center continuously monitors flow rates and pressures at various points in its system. The operators must ensure that the gas reaches each customer with sufficient flow rate and pressure to fuel equipment and appliances. They also ensure that the pressures stay below the maximum pressure for each segment of the system. Distribution lines typically operate at less than one-fifth of their design pressure.
As gas flows through the system, regulators control the flow from higher to lower pressures. If a regulator senses that the pressure has dropped below a set point it will open accordingly to allow more gas to flow. Conversely, when pressure rises above a set point, the regulator will close to adjust. As an added safety feature, relief valves are installed on pipelines to vent gas harmlessly, if a line becomes overpressured and the regulators malfunction.
Sophisticated computer programs are used to evaluate the delivery capacity of the network and to ensure that all customers receive adequate supplies of gas at or above the minimum pressure level required by their gas appliances.
Distribution mains are interconnected in multiple grid patterns with strategically located shut-off valves, so the utility can perform maintenance of its lines without ever shutting off a customer.
http://www.aga.org/Kc/aboutnaturalgas/consumerinfo/Pages/NGDeliverySystem.aspx

Also, need to find out which one of these you have:
[SIZE=3]“Natural gas travels from the wellhead to end consumers through a series of pipelines. These pipelines -- including flowlines, gathering lines, transmission lines, distribution lines, and service lines -- carry gas at varying rates of pressure. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]The higher the pressure of gas in a pipeline, the more potentially dangerous an accident with that pipeline could be. “[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]3) Transmission Pipelines[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Purpose: Transmission pipelines carry natural gas across long distances and occasionally across interstate boundaries, usually to and from compressors or to a distribution center or storage facility. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Description: Transmission lines are large steel pipes (usually 2" to 42" in diameter; most often more than 10" diameter) that are federally regulated. They carry unodorized gas at a pressure of approximately 200 to 1,200 psi. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Special considerations: Transmission pipelines can fail due to: seam failures, corrosion, materials failure, or defective welding. [/SIZE]
4) Distribution Pipelines
Purpose: Distribution pipelines, also known as "mains," are the middle step between high pressure transmission lines and low pressure service lines. Distribution pipelines operate at an intermediate pressure.
Description: Distribution pipelines are small to medium sized pipes (2" to 24" in diameter) that are federally regulated and carry odorized gas at varying pressure levels, from as little as 0.3 up to 200 psi. Distribution pipelines typically operate below their carrying capacity. Distribution pipelines are made from a variety of materials, including steel, cast iron, plastic, and occasionally copper. (What type of pipe? Material? Grade? Wall Thickness?)
http://energy.about.com/od/drilling/a/5-Types-Of-Natural-Gas-Pipelines.htm

[Pat Babaz]

I just went thru all of this with a pipeline company. They are going to put a 16" ethylene pipeline thru my back acre of property(their is already an existing 8" natural gas pipeline there). After researching pipeline right of ways on the internet and consulting with a family friend who has done right of ways for decades, I asked for the following stipulations in the contract before I signed it. Hope this helps

1 This contract shall be valid for only one pipeline

2 The size of the pipe will be included in the contract

3 The type of product or products in the pipe will be specified

4 No part of the pipeline will be above ground on my property(I.E. no risers, valves, gauges, controls etc.)

5 The depth of the pipeline will be specified. The minimum acceptable depth will be 36”

6 This contract shall be void if the pipeline construction is not complete within a 3 year(from signing) period

7 A hold harmless clause will be included stating that I will not be liable for any damages whatsoever that result from the construction, operation or maintenance of the pipeline

8 The pipeline company will be liable for any and all damage to my property that results from the construction, operation or maintenance of the pipeline

9 The pipeline company will be responsible for returning my property to its original condition after pipeline construction is complete

10 The contract will specify that this pipeline will be directionally drilled underneath my property and will further specify that the drill bit will not exit the ground on my property

11 The size of the temporary workspace will be defined and the temporary workspace will only be used during the construction of the pipeline

12 The price per rod will be renegotiated every ten years

13 The price per rod will be stipulated in the contract along with the number of rods needed to cross my property

14 The size in feet of the right of way will be clearly stipulated in the contract

[Pat Babaz]

They gave me all my requests except for number 12 and 13. As far as price, I can't say a dollar amount, but their final offer was about 75% higher than their first offer. These projects usually have common carrier status so they are coming thru whether you want them to or not. All you can do is negotiate a contract that limits their rights and reduces your liability as much as possible. Read and re-read the wording of the contract carefully because they may try to be as vague as possible to give them wiggle room in anticipation of any future litigation. I didn't feel the need to hire a lawyer, just use your head, take your time, let other people you trust read the contract and offer advice then sign it when you feel comfortable with it. *** If you do want to hire a lawyer, get together with a few neighbors and split one to keep the expenses down.

[Mako19]

A big question that we went round and round with the pipeline company about is whether or not the gas in the pipeline would be "odorized."

After asking them several times it was finally revealed that the pipeline wasn't even for natural gas but they would be transmitting "petroleum products."

Still not sure if we ever figured out exactly what they are moving in the pipeline! Lol

[swamp snorkler]

Originally Posted by Pat Babaz

I just went thru all of this with a pipeline company. They are going to put a 16" ethylene pipeline thru my back acre of property(their is already an existing 8" natural gas pipeline there). After researching pipeline right of ways on the internet and consulting with a family friend who has done right of ways for decades, I asked for the following stipulations in the contract before I signed it. Hope this helps

1 This contract shall be valid for only one pipeline

2 The size of the pipe will be included in the contract

3 The type of product or products in the pipe will be specified

4 No part of the pipeline will be above ground on my property(I.E. no risers, valves, gauges, controls etc.)

5 The depth of the pipeline will be specified. The minimum acceptable depth will be 36”

6 This contract shall be void if the pipeline construction is not complete within a 3 year(from signing) period

7 A hold harmless clause will be included stating that I will not be liable for any damages whatsoever that result from the construction, operation or maintenance of the pipeline

8 The pipeline company will be liable for any and all damage to my property that results from the construction, operation or maintenance of the pipeline

9 The pipeline company will be responsible for returning my property to its original condition after pipeline construction is complete

10 The contract will specify that this pipeline will be directionally drilled underneath my property and will further specify that the drill bit will not exit the ground on my property

11 The size of the temporary workspace will be defined and the temporary workspace will only be used during the construction of the pipeline

12 The price per rod will be renegotiated every ten years

13 The price per rod will be stipulated in the contract along with the number of rods needed to cross my property

14 The size in feet of the right of way will be clearly stipulated in the contract

Does the pipeline company send you an email or something everytime they swith the product going through? Some pipelines carry one thing, many do not.

[Pat Babaz]

[QUOTE=swamp snorkler;774835]Does the pipeline company send you an email or something everytime they swith the product going through? Some pipelines carry one thing, many do not.[/QUOTE

They ended up wording it kinda vague in the contract to give them plenty of flexibility. It's an etheleyne pipeline but the contract says something like "etheleyne, petroleum products and thier derivatives" that pretty much covers anything they would want to put in the line I'd imagine.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Pat Babaz

I just went thru all of this with a pipeline company. They are going to put a 16" ethylene pipeline thru my back acre of property(their is already an existing 8" natural gas pipeline there). After researching pipeline right of ways on the internet and consulting with a family friend who has done right of ways for decades, I asked for the following stipulations in the contract before I signed it. Hope this helps

1 This contract shall be valid for only one pipeline

2 The size of the pipe will be included in the contract

3 The type of product or products in the pipe will be specified

4 No part of the pipeline will be above ground on my property(I.E. no risers, valves, gauges, controls etc.)

5 The depth of the pipeline will be specified. The minimum acceptable depth will be 36”

6 This contract shall be void if the pipeline construction is not complete within a 3 year(from signing) period

7 A hold harmless clause will be included stating that I will not be liable for any damages whatsoever that result from the construction, operation or maintenance of the pipeline

8 The pipeline company will be liable for any and all damage to my property that results from the construction, operation or maintenance of the pipeline

9 The pipeline company will be responsible for returning my property to its original condition after pipeline construction is complete

10 The contract will specify that this pipeline will be directionally drilled underneath my property and will further specify that the drill bit will not exit the ground on my property

11 The size of the temporary workspace will be defined and the temporary workspace will only be used during the construction of the pipeline

12 The price per rod will be renegotiated every ten years

13 The price per rod will be stipulated in the contract along with the number of rods needed to cross my property

14 The size in feet of the right of way will be clearly stipulated in the contract

Another thing......what about if there is a spill [leak]. should there be something spelled out about the cost to clean-up and return the property back to "original" condition?

Also..... should there be something about what happens if the pipeline is abandoned?

[Cjleger337]

Originally Posted by Gerald

Another thing......what about if there is a spill [leak]. should there be something spelled out about the cost to clean-up and return the property back to "original" condition?

Also..... should there be something about what happens if the pipeline is abandoned?

Ive never gone through this nor am I an attorney but the first two things that come to mind that I would definitely have in a contract are:

1) In the event of any leakage or spills, the burden of cost of clean up and restoration of land to its original condition falls on XXX,LLC.
2) In the event of a major catastrophic blowout or malfunction causes bodily harm to any members in my household, XXXX, LLC shall be held monetarily responsible for any death/injury/dismemberment resulting from any catastrophic blowout or malfunction.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Cjleger337

Ive never gone through this nor am I an attorney but the first two things that come to mind that I would definitely have in a contract are:

1) In the event of any leakage or spills, the burden of cost of clean up and restoration of land and/or buildings to its original condition falls on XXX,LLC.
2) In the event of a major catastrophic blowout or malfunction causes bodily harm to any members in my household, XXXX, LLC shall be held monetarily responsible for any death/injury/dismemberment resulting from any catastrophic blowout or malfunction.

Made the above addition.

[latravcha]

Originally Posted by Cjleger337

Ive never gone through this nor am I an attorney but the first two things that come to mind that I would definitely have in a contract are:

1) In the event of any leakage or spills, the burden of cost of clean up and restoration of land to its original condition falls on XXX,LLC.
2) In the event of a major catastrophic blowout or malfunction causes bodily harm to any members in my household, XXXX, LLC shall be held monetarily responsible for any death/injury/dismemberment resulting from any catastrophic blowout or malfunction.

I would eliminate the words "major catastrophic"
Can be indentured different ways

[meaux fishing]

I stayed in a holiday inn last night... Let me know if you have any more questions

[swglenn]

Thank all of you for your input. I got some great ideas. Salty Cajun has some wonderful people.

[Mako19]

Originally Posted by Gerald

Another thing......what about if there is a spill [leak]. should there be something spelled out about the cost to clean-up and return the property back to "original" condition?

Also..... should there be something about what happens if the pipeline is abandoned?

Your second question is something that my dad held out on for months trying to get the pipeline company to add to the contract. He wanted them to put in the contract that they would come and remove the pipeline if it was abandoned. I am pretty sure that is one of the only things that he requested that he did not get.

But then he was able to use that point when negotiating the price. If he may be responsible to remove the pipeline in the future then they should compensate him for that additional cost when they purchase the ROW. As I have said above, EVERYTHING is negotiable.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Mako19

Your second question is something that my dad held out on for months trying to get the pipeline company to add to the contract. He wanted them to put in the contract that they would come and remove the pipeline if it was abandoned. I am pretty sure that is one of the only things that he requested that he did not get.

But then he was able to use that point when negotiating the price. If he may be responsible to remove the pipeline in the future then they should compensate him for that additional cost when they purchase the ROW. As I have said above, EVERYTHING is negotiable.

Maybe something could be put in the contract saying that they would clean the pipe ....ie. not leave it full of some "petroleum" product. T

his would be hard to monitor or know if this was really ever done without cutting the pipe and inspecting it.

Maybe something could be included to hold them responsible for xxx number of years.