how will it cause problems? it might change what you are used to, but will benefit the system. now if they are never opened, that would cause problems. if the operation plan that is written for the weirs is followed like it is currently it will be very benificial! which if i am correct is full moons; and big rains to flush the marsh.

there are also other criteria to the operation plan but that is two of the things i am aware of.

The new management of the weirs actually seem to be doing a good job. Should be real beneficial.

That marsh is the food chain to the lake....when you cut the food chain off what happens?????


When the weirs were blow out we had the best numbers for redfish and trout ......you choke it off..depletion of food...

The weirs being closed right now probably will not do much harm but we have 6 months when the marsh plays a huge roll on our lake
..and in these 6 months the weirs can not be choked off are you will see consequences for that
March, April ,May ..Sept, Oct, Nov...

You are correct with those statements, but you have got to know that the entire west side of the lake IS marsh.

I don't doubt that the fishing was great after the storms but that was likely due to all the decaying vegetation that was blown in or vegetation that was dying from the saltwater intrusion in the marsh that is not tolerant of saltwater. The food chain starts with the plants, you kill them and replace them with saltwater tolerant plants and your primary production will go WAY down. Freshwater marsh is one of THE most productive ecosystems in the entire world.

Fishing was also great offshore right after the storms, I don't think that had anything to do with a weir being blown out in Big Lake

The weirs serve a specific purpose = to keep saltwater out the freshwater marsh, not for shrimp, not for redfish, but to keep the marsh intact and keep this region from looking like most of SE La. The ship channel is the main culprit, maybe they should fill it back in and plant cypress back around the lake:)

You will see consequences, it will kill the marsh which would be great for shrimp feeding on decaying vegetation, and great for fish feeding on the shrimp for a few years maybe, but once that gets converted to saltmarsh, thats when the real consequences will occur

Cameron Prairie National Wildlife Refuge

Cameron Prairie National Wildlife Refuge was established to preserve and protect wintering waterfowl and their habitat. It was the first refuge established under the auspices of the North American Waterfowl Management Plan


I cut and pasted this off the website. The purpose of these refuges are soley for waterfowl habitat. THey closed the wiers for salinity level purposes. Anyone who hunts in those marshes sourounding the refuge knows that in the last few years it has turned into a salt marsh, good for fishing, not good for waterfowl.

Same situation in Lacassan Reserve when it was drained and burned seveal years ago. Fisherman were not happy but the whole purpose was for da ducks.

They will open them back up at one point. There are plenty of other places to catch 7+lb trout in the lake. Thats just the way the cookie crumbles.

Now all of the anchor chunkers will spread out across the lake!!!!

Nope...they will just follow the Haynies

I believe Sabine, Lac, and CP are all there for waterfowl? Saltmarsh and dablling ducks are not very compatible. Unfortunately saltwater intrusion is a big problem now, and will contibue to be a huge problem in the future. Its pretty simple how to combat the problem, but it ain't likely to happen in our lifetime. Bring some levees down, fill in the ship channel, thats all:grinpimp:
or create some more freshwater diversions, which are very expensive and most the times are not run at full capacity once they are installed. Venice actually GAINED some land last year after all the spillways and diversions were opened.

There was/is a project taking place at Upper Oua****a NWR in which several miles of levee are being taken down along the Oua****a River and converting the area back to what it once was - bottomland hardwoods. It took 4 years before it was allowed, the permitting process was unbelievable because it had never been done.

West side marsh don't support the whole lake

.the east side marsh supports the whole lake it self ....

Huh??

Lmao. That's awesome. But seriously.......seriously? Lose one marsh, and it hurts the entire system. The system would be more productive if that marsh were fresh marsh like it is supposed to be. Estuaries are productive because of freshwater influence. There is not much freshwater influence when you've got lake water constantly running into the marsh.

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I realize that saltwater intrusion isn't good for a fresh water marsh. These aren't fresh water marshes, they are brackish, and after Rita, with the weirs not able to hold back the salt water. Fishing and shrimpimg was some of the best we had in decades. So yes there is a give and take with the the system with water changing back and forth. So on productivity, flow back and forth seem to be good for fish/shrimp/crabs etc. Bad for duck hunters.....

The fishing was good due to all that decaying vegetation feeding the shrimp, crabs, which supported the food chain, it would likely be good for several years but once it converts to salt tolerant vegetation, it would go downhill fast and would likely never recover naturally. Freshwater/brackish marsh is one of the most productive ecosystems there is, and the weirs were placed there to keep it that way, the good shrimping, crabbing, and fishing that occurs there is just a bonus. If the weirs were not there, the marsh would convert and you think people complain now:eek:. Enjoy the benefits now:)

The same with the weirs at Rockefeller, the good shrimping, crabbing, and fishing is simply lagniappe for their management for waterfowl and to keep back saltwater intrusion

Sounds to me like "Smalls" knows a little bit and can teach "W" something on the ecology of an estuary.

Dude that ship channel has been around for years and so have the weirs...bottom line is leaving one gate open on each weir is not going to make that marsh just evaporate

No, it won't evaporate, but it will never return to what it was before. You can't keep letting saltwater into a marsh that you want to try and revert back to fresh or brackish marsh.

As was pointed out once before, the weirs do have openings in them for the fish and other species to move in and out of the marsh. If the fish, crabs, and shrimp don't want to move, that's the fish's choice. Also as was pointed out, they still open the weirs at certain times to allow the shrimp and crabs to move.

You are right and there were cypress in the lake before that, so do you not see what is happening.....




Marsh will not evaporate but it will become saltmarsh - no good

Man you guys sound some the Whale Wars Tree Huggers.......

And you sound like you only care about the fish you can catch today. :rolleyes:

Our Estuary is in Great shape.....no need to change anything...this is why most of the coast is screwed up..because of man trying to control the water ways...let nature run it course......I promise mother nature always takes care of herself....EX >..Hurricane Rita

LMAO, now that's funny right there.

Do you think it is actually better than it was before the ship channel was dug/dredged? I'm not talking about the trout fishing, but the entire estuary? You can't be serious! LOL

I am by no means one of those "whale wars tree huggers" as you put it, Waltrip. I am, however, a conservationist that believes you have to manage the resource right if you have any desire to keep any kind of harvest coming from it. I personally resent shows like that, because some of those so called environmentalists go over the top. I will not chain myself to a tree to save a forest; I will, however, use the knowledge I have to defend it adamantly against those that do not know or fail to understand the dangers of poor or mismanagement. If it is still mismanaged, well I tried my best to sway the opinion of the masses with what we learn through research, but often the masses are unwilling to listen to what those that understand have learned, because they think they know better because they have seen that "this has been there for x amount of years and the marsh hasn't changed".

All marsh isn't the same.

The weirs are managed the way they are for a reason because people that know better have decided that. Yes the ship channel has been there years. But as it has been pointed out time and time again, in its past, Calcasieu Lake had cypress trees on its banks. That precious fishery that exists throughout the system today did not occur as such in the past because the lake was heavily freshwater influenced. Trout did not swim in Prien Lake or Lake Charles. 50 years from now, the fishery will not exist if no attempt is made to maintain the marsh that maintains it because the ecosystem is changing from all the man-made interference, such as the ship channel. So now man has to interfer with weirs to keep Calcasieu Lake in its present, man-made state.

seriously, how could you possibly let nature take its course when man destroyed the most important device of the entire system?!?! the natural delta at the mouth of the calcasieu river! the lake may be salt now and can no longer be controlled due to ship traffic, but the marshes can be protected. atleast if the weirs are managed right, as they are at the current moment, we can protect the marshes. in return we have the most important part of the food chain for all those fish you catch.

That was a good post:) You better save that somewhere and keep it at the ready

lmao! i agree

Did your child type this?!

If the weirs were not fixed after Rita you wouldn't have had to worry about potlickers, they would be fishing elsewhere where there were fish, and your biggest concern would not be trying to get the lake back to a 25 trout limit, but begging for help to fix the entire lake:)

Thank you Smalls. He's uneducated, can't admit he knows 0 of what he speaks, and will stay ignorant. Just be happy we have knowledgeable, educated people in charge of bringing our wetlands back.

DUDE SAVE THE TREE HUGGING ....
They use to catch Tarpon in Lake Charles...Dude you dont have a clue about this lakes HISTORY....DO YOU????


Im not saying to take the weirs out..Im saying we need a gap...which means for incoming and out going water at all times...

Keep drinking your saltwater marsh going to kill everything kool aid.....Pass it around...

25 or Bust..Tree Huggers are MAD

Nope, just looking at a bigger picture than just your trout.

"W" mad because he's wrong about this.

Define "used to catch tarpon....". What time frame are we talking about here? Because before the ship channel was dredged, prien lake was swamp and freshwater marsh. Tarpon can live in freshwater, if you check your facts. But you "know" what you "know" and I know what I know. I'm not here to argue with you, waltrip. Just here to point out facts and the other side of the debate.

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So Smalls and Sportsman....just got a PM that yall work for who ever takes care of the weirs



I see...now...its job security .....


Big Picture is what got us 15 trout limit that had Zero facts...guess all you biologist on here have the facts that the marsh behind the weirs are in bad shape..




Can u post that info ?

flip flop flip flop, this is about the weirs - they are crucial in the support of the marsh which supports that lake, its simple. Man dug a canal, man had to do something to mitigate for the damage the canal caused. Same reason freshwater diversions are used on the east side, because the levees cut off freshwater from the marsh and killed the marsh, you don't want that.

I can tell you that I don't work for whoever takes care of the weirs. I do however work in the marsh very regularly planting marsh grass to try amd save that marsh that is supposedly just fine. Just to clarify, by trespassing, I am refering to the property owned by sweetlake land and oil and Miami corp.

The evidence is there, just go out in the marsh. Oh wait, that would be trespassing if you don't have the proper clearance. I on the other hand do, and I can tell you, there is a lot of marsh that was wiped out by the hurricanes and the only reason it has come back is through restorative efforts, no thanks to the way the weirs were previously operated.

Not sure who gave you your "information", but it was severely misguided. I'm certain whoever told you that has no idea who I work for.

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Why does the management of the weir have to stop access to the marsh? I know many people who just want to fish and crab there. Is there a compromise in the picture?

The marsh is private its actually a privilege to even fish there ...


I personally could careless if its open for boats or not....I just think seal off is choking the lake slowly

Because the only way to slow saltwater intrusion is to close the weirs, which are the only access to the marsh from the lake side.

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I have seen many many days in the past where the boat bay was closed and the gates were open. Water going in but no one allowed to fish or shrimp. And not during duck season. Does not give any credibility to the refuge or management co. Part of the marsh is a federal refuge, the rest is private.

Why not make a boat lift or just let people fish crab off the bank?

Things I don't know hewes. Those points make a lot of sense. I'm no expert on how or why the weirs were, are, and will be operated or when access to the marsh will be allowed or disallowed. I have never claimed to be one. I just know marshes and the purpose of the current management of the weirs, and I know that marsh is not what it should be for the continued long term health of the system. Can I point you to documentation, no. There is a reason why we have natural resource specialists and why those careers will not go away. It's because in the past, people did not know how to manage natural resources to maintain the long term integrity of them. Even today, misconceptions create this same situation. As I've said, time and time again, you have to understand the different marsh types to understand that that marsh is not going to sustain the lake as it exists now without the proper management.

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1st reason this will never happen is because people have no respect for property .....that's why Sabine ban shrimping and crabbing...too many trashy people

This^^^, its a shame it really is, Rockefeller is just the same. Crabbers and shrimpers = trash piles, plain and simple.

Put in at the nature trail the other day. When I picked up my boat I had trash in it. Cans, bags, etc. Put everything in the net to go throw in the trash. What do u know? No trash cans out there. Lazy damn game wardens wanna complain about trash and shut places down but they don't do their part at all. I'm not taking up for the trashy people but gotta put some of the blame on the lazy government workers Aka game wardens. There are laws against leaving by catch. They need to be there to enforce it. Not shut it down when one person breaks the law. Just lazy people everywhere. Wanna sit in da AC and draw their check instead of gettin out there and sweatin a little.

Here is how I look at it..... WL%F didn't bring that trash out there people did...so easy..pick YOUR trash YOU brought out there and bring it home ...its not a right to use refuge its a privilege

So if you have trash.,..its yours you brought so bring it back

TD.... I also often [usually] come home with someone else's trash.

But..... Why should there be trash cans at the boat launch / dock area? If a person brings some "trash", they should bring the trash home and not rely on "someone else" [ie. my money] to take care of their trash.

After a trip to Holly Beach 2 (?) years ago, I stopped at 2 locations in the refuge to see how the shrimpers were doing. Sabine NR had finally reopened for cast netting for shrimp the week before. I made a big mistake by not taking picture of how horriblly filtlhily the dock area was that day.

I could not step on the dock without stepping on old dried up dead bait fish. The flys were everywhere and the smell was bad. There was also large amounts of various other trash at both places that I checked. I was not at all supprised when Cast netting was closed down a few days later.

IMO.....It is not the Game Wardens job to patrol the docks to catch the "trashers", but they should write tickets when they see someone breaking the law.

Wrong. It is their job. If they aren't going to enforce the laws THEY make. Then stop wasting our tax dollars on them. We're not talking about LA state game wardens. We are talking about refuge agents. It IS their job. Try to get them out there to enforce laws during duck season and you get the same result. NOTHING.

poo-yie...

Rita was a Godsend.