Originally Posted by alphaman (Post 800344)

The cop that shot the guy was wasn't able to think under obviously. And his emotion caused him to pull the trigger. I don't think it was intentional. But his emotions controlled his action. The vet said f**k after the shots where fired.


how can this man possible maneuver his right arm to grab a gun that's in his right pocket with 2, 200 plus lb cops on top of him. One kneeling on one arm and a other on top of him.

I think the cop that shot him is younger than the one laying on his back after the shots.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by alphaman (Post 800364)

Yes they seek it out. But I think you missing my point. If a person can change they way they think. They can do better. Is what I'm saying. But by the government giving its not helping a person become better

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by MathGeek (Post 800358)

Having legally carried for many years some close relatives and I have had a number of occasions for interactions with law enforcement while armed. Most have been positive with good LEOs who appreciated and were committed to honoring RKBA with a few notable exceptions.

The exceptions tend to occur when the government employee does not really completely trust citizens with guns or some other factor tips the balance from what should be a respectful interaction into something less positive. As far as we can tell here are some things that tip interactions to the negative:

1. The gov't employee just does not trust citizens, even law abiding citizens, with guns.

Sometimes this is less obvious until they encounter a citizen with a configuration of legal guns of which they are more suspicious, such as an AR style. We've encountered it most often when the second lawfully carried pistol brings the grief. Hint: Answering the question, "Why do you need two guns?" with "For the same reason you do." Is not always the best plan.

2. The gov't employee or a buddy has an agenda.

A close family member started a new gun range near some land owned by the family of a local LEO who perceived their property values to be significantly decreased. Everything was legal, but the neighbors set out to harass him in person after their efforts with the zoning board and the local prosecutor failed.

3. Some member of the community has made an exaggerated report.

It is unclear why gov't employees place so much more trust in those making anonymous reports than in property owners, drivers, and CHL holders even after they know the property owner, driver, and/or CHL holder is law abiding.

All in all, our experience is that gov't employees more accustomed to rural areas are more comfortable with guns and less likely to infer that a report of a "man with a gun" or "shots fired" means that some kind of criminal activity is occurring. Wildlife officers tend to be the best, followed by deputies of rural agencies. The closer you get to urban areas, the worse it gets.

Other than long hair, lots of guns, and (sometimes) a hispanic appearance, our family does not tend to have actions or appearances that tend to suggest drug use or other criminal activities, so I'm not sure how tatoos, bling, a meth head appearance, slurred speech, or simply being black would further complicate interactions with law enforcement while armed.

Originally Posted by seachaser250 (Post 800366)

So were the cops supposed to wait until they were at gun point to then draw on the guy?

I'm not in professional law enforcement but they said he has a gun in a frantic kind of way. Id have to guess they didn't use x ray vision to see the gun through his pants pocket......

Originally Posted by alphaman (Post 800374)

Once on the ground. They were suppose to proceed to grab his arms and arrest him. We go threw training on how to arrest someone that's on the ground etc.
They couldn't do that bc they were laying on top him tell him to stop resisting. But obviously werent trying to grab his arms to out cuffs on him. BC they where mentally out of it and on top of him. and the guy wasn't fighting at all. Obviously bc 2 200lb guys where on top of him.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by seachaser250 (Post 800375)

Guess We will just have to disagree then.

Originally Posted by alphaman (Post 800344)

The cop that shot the guy was wasn't able to think under obviously. And his emotion caused him to pull the trigger. I don't think it was intentional. But his emotions controlled his action. The vet said f**k after the shots where fired.


how can this man possible maneuver his right arm to grab a gun that's in his right pocket with 2, 200 plus lb cops on top of him. One kneeling on one arm and a other on top of him.

I think the cop that shot him is younger than the one laying on his back after the shots.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Matt G (Post 800379)

As a law enforcement officer, how do you approach a call in which someone pulled a gun on another person? Gun drawn? Same way as you would someone jay walking? I'm honestly curious. Is that something you were trained in, or does the situation dictate the approach? I would imagine adrenaline is high and emotions are on edge. Especially if the call were in a crime ridden part of town.

As far as the guy not being able to get to that gun, I call BS. Watch the video closely. At no point in time did they have full control of his right hand. I'll bet you two guys could try to restrain me in the same manner and I could get to whatever was in my pocket. Anyone who has been in any sort of physical altercation would probably make the same bet. Not to mention that he had on baggy pants which would only make it easier to get to the gun, He wouldn't have even had to get it out of his pocket to get a shot off. Basically a variation of retention shooting.

I feel terrible for the man's family. It was heartbreaking watching his son break down at that press conference. But at the end of the day all of this could have been avoided had he just complied.

Originally Posted by Matt G (Post 800379)

As a law enforcement officer, how do you approach a call in which someone pulled a gun on another person? Gun drawn? Same way as you would someone jay walking? I'm honestly curious. Is that something you were trained in, or does the situation dictate the approach? I would imagine adrenaline is high and emotions are on edge. Especially if the call were in a crime ridden part of town.

As far as the guy not being able to get to that gun, I call BS. Watch the video closely. At no point in time did they have full control of his right hand. I'll bet you two guys could try to restrain me in the same manner and I could get to whatever was in my pocket. Anyone who has been in any sort of physical altercation would probably make the same bet. Not to mention that he had on baggy pants which would only make it easier to get to the gun, He wouldn't have even had to get it out of his pocket to get a shot off. Basically a variation of retention shooting.

I feel terrible for the man's family. It was heartbreaking watching his son break down at that press conference. But at the end of the day all of this could have been avoided had he just complied.

Originally Posted by alphaman (Post 800380)

He was Fighting i guess yes but the gun wasn t pointed at the cop so the focus should have been to put cuff on him once on the ground

The cop pulled the gun out his pocket at the end

Yes it was a critical situation but it wasnt a life threatening one. Bc the gun was in his pocket. End result shouldnt have been death. Should have been an arrested person

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by alphaman (Post 800385)

OK. So your saying 2 trained officers cant grab 1 mans arms that's laying on his back? 1 person obviously kneeling on one arm and the other on top of chest area.

Let's roll play these scenarios so you can see how that possible and not possible to reach in your pocket with 2 200lb people on you.

Fellas I'm looking at this from an officer point of view

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk