Problems at lacassine refuge??
 

Has anyone noticed that there isn't much water and too much grass in lacassine? I have contacted them several times about burning it but they won't. Anyone have ideas about how to get the grass out enough to be able to hunt?

You can not legally remove native vegetation. They will eventually burn it when the conditions are rite but there's no way to know when that's gonna be.

Yeah i have noticed bc it hasn't been burned in about 8 years. A lot of people are moving to Sabine bc it's better managed and more spots to hunt. Hate to leave it bc I like to hunt in that area. Just wish they would accept volunteers to help with some of the work.

Sabine is easier to hunt but not better managed. The truth is both NWR's are ALMOST completely left to their own devices. Federal budget cuts will make it worse over the next few years and 16 trillion (that's billion w/ a TR) in debt and climbing don't help.

The hole complex was designed to be self sufficient in the beginning I do agree that the federal budget prevents extra work but I don't believe that's preventing the work on it maybe I'm wrong but I think it's more of waiting on the right time and conditions

Well in the past 8 years if there Hasent been a good day to do it, I don't see one in the future. But I would like to. It just seems Sabine is better takin care of and more "official". If there were a little bit of work put into both areas we could really have some great public hunting. It's hard to find a blind and this is all a lot of us have now days. And don't get me started on the whole trillions in debt topic.

Lol I agree last season woulda been perfect in the drought and it would messed the huntin up and their habitat but there's not much habitat left for them

It's a controlled burn sounded by water only on so many acres. I'm not seeing the negative side to this. Just saying. It's hard to get out there, find water, and then the birds fall in the tall grass and then are lost? It would be better to burn it at the end of the season so next yrs hunting wouldn't be affected!

I couldn't agree with you more

Devil's advocate here - SD hit the nail on the head, you know when 'we' say the federal gov't needs to cut spending? Well, that is part of the federal gov't spending that gets cut


It costs a lot of money to burn nowadays mainly due to liability but also firefighting equipment. In the marsh, you have to do all this by airboats and that gets expensive quick and then the staff time on top of that. Kisatchie has it down to an artform though, they use helicopters and can burn thousands of acres a day, but all this is contiguous burnable acres, I assume Lacassine is not one contiguous marsh
Smokey the Bear turned lots of people off on fire, wildfires are now somehow a bad thing but fire is what shaped all this landscape and kept trees from growing, kept the vegetation lush, etc. All it takes is one prescribed burn to get away and the feds will shut it all down.

Sounds easy but lacassine would be a lot harder to burn than say Sabine. They are two totally different marshes. Sabine has ground and if you light it afire it will burn all the way to the root system. Lacassine is no ground. The grass is over head high everywhere but the water is also knee high just about everywhere. It would be hard to keep a fire going in lacassine. No to mention its mostly cat tails and I haven't talked to anyone that's found a good way to get rid of them yet. I agree something needs to be done but it would be harder in lacassine. Hell Sabine usually has a lightning fire or two every year. And budget has a lot to do with it. I have called refuge officials several times on this issue and the answer is always "no funding". They don't even have the funding to man what they have now. Which is why there is still porches and washing machines in Sabine and will likely be there until they rot. Only thing that might open up lacassine again is another Rita. And I don't think anyone wants that.

I have been hunting the same spot in Lacassine for the past 8 years. This year it is taken over by grass and can't be hunted, I went opening day and haven't been back. I think letting hunters use motorized boat once every few years would help to keep trails and ponds opened up for hunting.

Yes the saltwater intrusion opened lacassine up big time. Unfortunately it brought mass destruction with it. If you burned at the end of the season, it would be even thicker by opening day. Sabine can't be self sufficient because of the weir system, not sure about lacassine. Only thing that may help is to install pumps and keep the hunting area flooded with water. I think the drought the past couple of year really choked that place up wit vegetation. But when you talkin pumps, you talkin $$$$$$$! BTW I'm not arguing with anybody, and I don't think I have the answer. It's just an opinion, and I like where this thread is going, if anyone else has a suggestion, lets hear it.

I deal with the effects from lack of fire quite often. Fire is what created much of the landscape in that area whether its marsh, prairie, or longleaf pine and when you take that out its like taking a turtle or a crawfish out of water, yeah it will survive but it will not thrive. Fire helps to keep woody brush under control and after a few years of not burning, fire is not as effective. If the marsh in Lacassine was burned right now it would do very little, it would just come back up green in a few weeks. You then need to get it back to where it was previously which is where herbicides come into play. It is so much easier to maintain an area than it is to restore an area. Restoration is expensive, the costs of herbicides and the manpower to implement them is expensive, and when the vegetation is very thick, it takes two or even three herbicide jobs to get to it all. You have to let the veg die back and then spray what you missed or what the herbicide could not get down into. On paper, it is very simple to restore something, you go in and do A, B, C, and D and then just maintain after that, but the time scale between A to the maintenance stage may be 5 or even 10 years.
All our NWRs and WMAs could use some funding, but I don't see that happening in this economy unless we do like Missouri and add a little sales tax statewide to go towards conservation on our state lands, but asking Louisiana people to raise taxes:shaking:. Seems like 'stimulus' funds could have been used for the SW La refuges complex back in 2009 but that is a totally different subject:rotfl:

I scouted the week before and hunted 11/14. The spot I used to hunt is over run with hunters. With everything closing up, hunters have fewer places. Not real excited about the season ahead. Sabine has more area but is also way over crowded. Personally, I think if they are under funded to maintain the refuges and keep the areas huntable, maybe it's time to move to a lottery type system with designated hunt areas. Many places up north do it. This allows them to maintain specifies areas and also ends the problem of crowded hunt areas. Big money has taken over all the farm land/leases. No money has devastated the public hunt areas. It may be time to find a happy medium.

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You would think DU or delta would do something about it. It's some damn good hunting land

True, but lets not forget that the hunting area of Sabine only makes up about a 1/3 of the total refuge. Cameron Prairie and Rockefeller don't allow any waterfowl hunting at all (except for CP youth hunt). These are good areas that could provide good waterfowl opportunities and ease the overcrowding, but it'll never happen. I don't wanna see a lottery but it may be the only way.

Be careful what you wish for. A lottery system may mean a lot of us public hunters may be doing a lot of fishin during hunting season. Would you be willing to give up your whole hunting season?

frick..just give up hunting and fishing and take up golf...or do yard work.

Nooooooooo:eek:! You don't want that, you don't want that. You show up at 4 am, don't get picked then what? The 'L' word is a bad word:)

Yes! Lol don't even say that word again

Anytime Delta or Du does anything they get criticized:( If 'they' spent say $1 million on Sabine NWR, the north La and SE La hunters would be up in arms saying they don't hunt there yada yada and why don't 'they' spend more money up in N La, and then you have the guys that think all the money should go to the breeding grounds, so:confused: And lord forbid DU or Delta do any work on private land :grinpimp: The answer is to get more funding from the federal gov't because these areas are federal refuges, and that is not happening anytime soon unless we print more money which may happen under the second term of Oba.....


It sucks, but we are still fortunate in Louisiana that we have over 1 million acres of state public land that we pay relatively very little for a WMA stamp and can hunt all of it. May be crowded or may not be the best hunting but the other alternative is to get in a lease. We have it better than most states. You can be anywhwere in Louisiana and be within 30 miles max of public hunting.

#1: Lacassine's money is spent in the impoundment. That is the area managed for the ducks. The area set up for hunting is natural marsh and was never intended to be manipulated for duck hunting/hunters. It is what is.

#2: Delta and DU will not touch, nor be allowed to touch federal lands!

#3: A lottery is the last thing you want to see happen to us! Thanfully, there is no funds to be able to set up and run a lottery system.

Sadly there is also no money for sabine either. Enjoy it while you can or take up golf. That is our only options.

quit the ya ya ing and take up golf.

This man brings great advice to this thread!

"When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it"
Hall of Fame Baseball Player, Roger Hornsby

awesome courses all around this area...National, L'auberge, Grey, Mallard, Frasch Hell i'll let you play on my tab at Bayou Oaks in Sulphur...lol

best bring some mosquito dope and snake chaps for my tee shots...lol

There you go folks, no more face paint and cases of batteries. Can sleep late and everything. I would take this man up on that offer!

This^^, the SW LA refuge complexes are there primarily for wintering waterfowl everything else (the hunting, fishing, etc.) is just a bonus. Here is Lacassine's goals
http://www.fws.gov/refuges/profiles/index.cfm?id=43610

Each NWR has a specific management plan. For instance Tensas NWRs primary focus is for black bears, songbirds, and secondary would be wintering waterfowl. When they work their budgets every year, they have to make sure their management activities will benefit these above species. There are huge deer killed in Tensas NWR every year, but deer management is not one of their goals, however their management for songbirds and bears really helps out the deer but its hard to tell a deer hunter that:rotfl:

When wintering waterfowl is the objective, hunting is allowed but it is specified that so much of the percentage of the acreage must be set aside as a true refuge (no hunting). This is why on D'arbonne, Tensas, etc have areas closed to waterfowl hunting, it jus tis what it is and you would not be able to hunt period if the refuge was not there.

Check out all the public land we have and then look at other states

go play golf, then stop by the store and pick up some filet mignon and you will still come out cheaper than what you spend on hunting!

What would be interesting and a real possibility is if we have a 30 and 3 season next year.

Hey, its just a suggestion. Other area refuges will never open for hunting. The ones open now are over grown/over crowded. Something, somewhere has to give. I've already heard of more boat tampering in lacassine this year and we're not even a full week in! People think these spots belong to them and destroy or steal others property. Where and how do we draw a line?

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And this is part of the problem. Folks that think public land belongs to them. Folks that don't have more than one spot. On public deer woods, I have a plan b,c,d,e, and f. Someone is there before me? No biggy, you beat me, it's yours. I'd rather leave the area then huff and puff and sit next to that guy and we both have a crappy hunt. It's the nature of the beast and it would be nice if folks had some respect. But what you got these days is TV hunters! Face paint, barrell stickers, ebay bands all over der lanyard, rock music, and basic feeling of I'm a bada$$ so get out of my way! Like mentioned, when the season gets cut back like it has in the past, the TV duck hunters will go back to golf, bowling, and fishing. And that suits the sheet out of me!!

That's exactly right!

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It sucks, but the sole purpose those areas are there is for wintering waterfowl and it doesn't matter to the feds if anyone hunts there or not. If it starts getting too silly they will just shut it down and it will not effect them one bit. Didn't they shut down shrimping in Sabine not long ago? Trash or something?

Shut down shrimping from the bank because of trash and by-catch left EVERYWHERE.

Yes, they sure did. I know we have to accept what we have and be happy we have it. But a little respect in the marsh goes a very long way.

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Cameron Prairie has the youth lottery hunts, and it's possible that some other lottery hunts could be opened up in the future, but Rockefeller will never be. It can't because of the stipulations that were in the lease agreement when the Rockefeller family leased it over to the State.
Like has been said before, burning Lacassine is a whole different animal compared to Sabine. Different marsh structure and lots more technical problems in just getting equipment and manpower out there, which translates into money of course.

What needs to take place is a lease type system. Everybody pays a certain amount of money, and they designate you to a certain spot. There are plenty of spots at lacassine if it were takin care of properly. There could only be positive out comes of this. 1. Keeping up a great spot to hunt. 2. Everyone will have there own area to hunt, and not next to some sky blasters. 3. The walk/pirogue out there would be so much easier for the guys that hunt it. 4. We wouldn't loose as many birds due to there being less grass. 4. And last since it would be "managed", there still would be grass and canes but not to an extent a duck can't even hit the water. All positives would come of this for a lousy $200 fee. Vs 10k for a rice field blind with people you don't know. I appreciate all the comments guys. Noone means to be rude just a friendly discussion to keep a great place to hunt alive.

And as for the boat tampering! It is a very big problem especially on the pipeline canal. Iv talked to wildlife and fisheries and if/when people mess with your boat they actually consider that a threat and can be punished by law. Best way to catch someone in the act is have a video/game camera hidden somewheres. If someone is in that spot, it doesn't matter if you found it first or not. It's PUBLIC LAND! When you start paying to help manage "your spot" you might can say something, other than that go to plan b. be a man and not a kid and mess with other people's property.

I disagree with this, we're already paying for that place with our tax dollars, last thing I need is to be double dipped by the gubment again.


I completely agree with this.

I don't want to pay anymore money to the government but I see it as if I could spend $200 more dollars to make my hunts that much more enjoyable and easier then I would do it in a heart beat and I know many more that would. Just wishful thinking I guess. And yeah the boat tampering is just immature and low. If they keep having problems with this they will eventually shut it down. If they don't have the money to manage it, I'm sure they don't have it to have a warden to patrol it untill the time limit is up. If you are this type of person, keep it up and you will have to find a new spot to hunt along with the rest of us! That's LOW!!

What guarantees you a spot on said lease? I disagree with that 100%. Let's keep what we already have.

You points do have some merit Patrick. I wouldn't be against some sort of system like this.

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This is exactly what does not need to happen. I understand you are just trying to think outside the box but logistically this will not and cannot work. Who decides who gets which spot? Who decides how many spots will be available? Where will the money go? Who will police these spots? What will you say when you don't get a spot and you have no place to hunt? It is not feasible and it is a slippery slope that you will wish you were not on some day!

I agree, it is not perfect the way it is, but its 'free' and its open to anyone


Again, the whole point of the refuge is for wintering waterfowl, the hunting is just a bonus for us. As long as the true refuge portion is maintained for wintering waterfowl they have met their requirements. If during the waterfowl season hunters kill 10 ducks or 100,000 ducks it makes not one bit of difference for them. Just saying that when you complain to the refuge staff or your senator or whatever it does not matter, they may listen but they are not hearing you. They don't make the decisions, someone at an air-conditioned desk in Washington, DC makes that decision.

White Lake has a lease system and a lottery type system if anyone wants to go that route:grinpimp: Better have deep pockets

There are ways around it. If you are familiar with anuhac near Baytown texas they have the same system and it works fine. The ldwf would police the area, money would go towards managing the property : gas, equipment, etc. it's just the want to and that area doesn't have it. And it doesn't have to be that exact system but something needs to be done. It's going to be a free for all and someone is going to get hurt and property will be destroyed bc someone took joe blows spot. Mark my words. I'm not trien to step on anyone's toes, I just want to keep the place available for hunters. But if everyone is fine with the way it is and doesn't mind there hard earned money going to waste on replacing broken equipment, gas, food, shells, ext for 0 birds then game on. It's gonna be a fun next few years

30 and 3 or bust!

but there is no money going towards the refuge i thought?:eek::)

I know what you are saying, i am just messing but can you expound on Anahuac NWR and how that is ran? Not familiar with the hunting there, but do know they have a population of whooping cranes that winter there which may have something to do with the limited access there