Thoughts on CCA meeting tonight on state of Calcasieu fishery

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by BuckingFastard

return to science is KEY!!

Agreed. All the other action items are natural consequences of the desire for science based management.

["W"]

With the WL&F running the oyster show it will be over with in about 2 years when we have zero left in west cove

But I'm sure they will just close WC and open the east side up again



Unless they are just to money hungry blind to see oyster dredging is the #1 problem

[fishwater]

How can we start an orginazation just for the calcasieu lake estuary. I know nothign about somthign like that but it seems that we the fishermen are really the only ones that are worried about changing the lake, and the current conservation organization are not helping to much. Or even just a group to try and start getting the word about the oystering that is goign to eventually kill the lake. Like someone i was talking to said most of the guys that are oystering the lake dont care about it disappearing and will not listen to anyone on the subject. It seems like it is goign to take a major group to make a change and get it through the house to pass a bill.

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by fishwater

How can we start an orginazation just for the calcasieu lake estuary. I know nothign about somthign like that but it seems that we the fishermen are really the only ones that are worried about changing the lake, and the current conservation organization are not helping to much. Or even just a group to try and start getting the word about the oystering that is goign to eventually kill the lake. Like someone i was talking to said most of the guys that are oystering the lake dont care about it disappearing and will not listen to anyone on the subject. It seems like it is goign to take a major group to make a change and get it through the house to pass a bill.

Same could be said for many of the fishermen that fight to keep the weirs open 24/7, 365. They claim the weirs are choking off the life-blood of the lake, when the marsh itself is the life-blood. The data presented last night clearly showed an increase in open water and more saline conditions when the weirs were not in place, or not being operated. Whether you agree or understand that there are inherent differences between a fresh and salt marsh is irrelevant, but there is a BIG difference between marsh and open water.

[Reggoh]

Originally Posted by Smalls

Same could be said for many of the fishermen that fight to keep the weirs open 24/7, 365. They claim the weirs are choking off the life-blood of the lake, when the marsh itself is the life-blood. The data presented last night clearly showed an increase in open water and more saline conditions when the weirs were not in place, or not being operated. Whether you agree or understand that there are inherent differences between a fresh and salt marsh is irrelevant, but there is a BIG difference between marsh and open water.

I didn't realize that there was so much full time flow between the lake and the marsh through the fish slots and lower gates being opened on moon cycles. If you are only concerned with access to the marsh and the boat bay is closed, you would say the weirs are closed all the time... when in essence the shrimp, fish, and crabs can travel back and forth in the provided slots.

Is water flow being restricted? Sure... but to say the weirs are totally choking off the lake of bait is just not true.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Reggoh

I didn't realize that there was so much full time flow between the lake and the marsh through the fish slots and lower gates being opened on moon cycles. If you are only concerned with access to the marsh and the boat bay is closed, you would say the weirs are closed all the time... when in essence the shrimp, fish, and crabs can travel back and forth in the provided slots.

Is water flow being restricted? Sure... but to say the weirs are totally choking off the lake of bait is just not true.

Good point. Boat travel back and forth is not essential to the health of the fishery. High levels of exchange of shrimp, fish, and crabs are essential.

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by Reggoh

I didn't realize that there was so much full time flow between the lake and the marsh through the fish slots and lower gates being opened on moon cycles. If you are only concerned with access to the marsh and the boat bay is closed, you would say the weirs are closed all the time... when in essence the shrimp, fish, and crabs can travel back and forth in the provided slots.

Is water flow being restricted? Sure... but to say the weirs are totally choking off the lake of bait is just not true.

Which has been my argument several times. I've stated before on this forum that there were slots in the weirs that kept the system from being 100% shut off. People didn't listen.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Smalls

Which has been my argument several times. I've stated before on this forum that there were slots in the weirs that kept the system from being 100% shut off. People didn't listen.

I don't think those underwater slats are always open. If there is a visible height difference in front and behind, there should be some observed current (though small) if the underwater slats are open. I've seen it dead still from close enough to be sure that no flow or exchange was occurring.

[jchief]

Originally Posted by fishwater

How can we start an orginazation just for the calcasieu lake estuary. I know nothign about somthign like that but it seems that we the fishermen are really the only ones that are worried about changing the lake, and the current conservation organization are not helping to much. Or even just a group to try and start getting the word about the oystering that is goign to eventually kill the lake. Like someone i was talking to said most of the guys that are oystering the lake dont care about it disappearing and will not listen to anyone on the subject. It seems like it is goign to take a major group to make a change and get it through the house to pass a bill.

Why don't we start flooding the LC CCA meetings and asking questions there. This is what this organization is supposed to be there for. If that don't work, then make a move to form another organization. Before the legislative session and the STAR kicks off.

And if they ignore us, then we really have a lot to holler about and will probably have more people listen to us.

[Reggoh]

Originally Posted by jchief

Why don't we start flooding the LC CCA meetings and asking questions there. This is what this organization is supposed to be there for. If that don't work, then make a move to form another organization. Before the legislative session and the STAR kicks off.

And if they ignore us, then we really have a lot to holler about and will probably have more people listen to us.

I think this is the best approach... if you use science and logic these people ultimately want what we all want. A healthy fishing estuary.

They NEED to have people that know this lake as well as the guides and local fishermen to help advise them on important issues. This doesn't mean everything suggested on this site is viable but that's why you have to back it up with science and data. To find out... maybe some of these ideas are great and will eventually get implemented. But if the director of CCA just recently heard about rocking the ship channel on the south end, then apparently our voices have not been loud enough within their organization.

Like them or hate them, CCA is already in place and has a lot of pull with the Commission and Legislature. I believe that going through them is the fastest way to achieve results.

I also believe the boycotting thing is an ok idea but I would go the opposite way... INFILTRATE their organization with like minded people and eventually you will have those people in positions of power to make the desired changes. You can't just sit on the computer and complain.... you have to get active with them and force your will.

[T-TOP]

Originally Posted by jchief

Why don't we start flooding the LC CCA meetings and asking questions there. This is what this organization is supposed to be there for. If that don't work, then make a move to form another organization. Before the legislative session and the STAR kicks off.



And if they ignore us, then we really have a lot to holler about and will probably have more people listen to us.

Agreed


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[fishwater]

Yeah i mean CCA is one way to do it but that money goes to the entire state and we see what has been done in the past 4 years. They have the data we saw last night way before we have seen it but have not addressed the problem until now. I have lost my trust in CCA for the time being, all we hear from any of the people that were at the meeting is we will look into it thats not good enough anymore. I dont live in lake Charles but they are a chapter that you would think could get things accomplished with as many people that live there and have some influence in govt.

[jchief]

Originally Posted by fishwater

Yeah i mean CCA is one way to do it but that money goes to the entire state and we see what has been done in the past 4 years. They have the data we saw last night way before we have seen it but have not addressed the problem until now. I have lost my trust in CCA for the time being, all we hear from any of the people that were at the meeting is we will look into it thats not good enough anymore. I dont live in lake Charles but they are a chapter that you would think could get things accomplished with as many people that live there and have some influence in govt.

I know a lot of the guy's on the board and in this chapter. I hope to start making meetings and talking to them.

That said, if it don't work, I'll be glad to help form another organization and I have been involved in many and formed a few over my 37 years in the fire service. And I have formed many good relationships with legislators.

That said, if we want to try and get a bill on oystering in the upcoming session, we need someone from our area to put the bill foward and since the upcoming session is fiscal, each legislator only gets 5 such bills and it needs to be put in early, pre-filed is best.

It would be great if we can get Senator Morrish on board with this as he was the one that presented the other CCA bill to start with. A complete ban will not fly in my opinion. Will have to be some type of compromise. Also, here is a list of the Senate Natural Resource Committee that the bill will have to go through.

Natural Resources Committee
Committee Members

Senator Gerald Long (Chairman)
P.O. Box 151
Winnfield, LA 71483
(318) 628-5799
longg@legis.la.gov

Senator Rick Ward, III (Vice-Chairman)
3741 Highway 1
Port Allen, LA 70767
(225) 246-8838
wardr@legis.la.gov

Senator R.L. "Bret" Allain, II
600 Main Street
Suite 1
Franklin, LA 70538
(337) 828-9107
allainb@legis.la.gov

Senator "Jody" Amedee
2109 S. Burnside Ave.
Suite A
Gonzales, LA 70737
(225) 644-1526
amedeej@legis.la.gov

Senator Norbèrt N. "Norby" Chabert
P.O. Box 2417
Houma, LA 70361
(985) 858-2927
chabertn@legis.la.gov

Senator Jean-Paul J. Morrell
New Orleans Lakefront Terminal Building
6001 Stars & Stripes Blvd., Suite 221
New Orleans, LA 70126
(504) 284-4794
morrelljp@legis.la.gov

Senator Dan "Blade" Morrish
119 W. Nezpique Street
Jennings, LA 70546
(337) 824-3979
morrishd@legis.la.gov

Senator Page Cortez (Interim Member)
101 W. Farrell Road
Bldg. 5, Suite 100
Lafayette, LA 70508
(337) 993-7430
cortezp@legis.la.gov

[jchief]

They are not on every weir and some are always opened. I believe the ones at Lamberts are always open.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by jchief

They are not on every weir and some are always opened. I believe the ones at Lamberts are always open.

Thanks for the clarification. I'll try and have a closer look next time I'm there.

I tend to think about the lake/marsh exchange as a percentage of the maximum possible on any given day. 100% on a given day would be all weirs having all their gates open. Then the percentage is lowered from there according to the proportion of the maximal cross sectional area that is actually opened and for what portion of the 24 hour day.

I know the focus is often on Lambert's and Grand Bayou weirs, but the West Cove weirs are also important from the viewpoint of feeding the lake via exchange with the marsh. The weirs over on that side have mechanical gates that can close and cover the slats.

I know 5% of the total area open is better than zero, but it's still a small fraction of the maximum possible exchange, and I bet whatever remains open at Lambert when all the gates are closed is less than 5%.

[Reggoh]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Thanks for the clarification. I'll try and have a closer look next time I'm there.

I tend to think about the lake/marsh exchange as a percentage of the maximum possible on any given day. 100% on a given day would be all weirs having all their gates open. Then the percentage is lowered from there according to the proportion of the maximal cross sectional area that is actually opened and for what portion of the 24 hour day.

I know the focus is often on Lambert's and Grand Bayou weirs, but the West Cove weirs are also important from the viewpoint of feeding the lake via exchange with the marsh. The weirs over on that side have mechanical gates that can close and cover the slats.

I know 5% of the total area open is better than zero, but it's still a small fraction of the maximum possible exchange, and I bet whatever remains open at Lambert when all the gates are closed is less than 5%.

MG, the slideshow that CRPA did covers all of the weir operation. I found it very informative.

If I remember correctly, 2 of the 5 East side weirs only have upper gates and their fish slots are underwater where the lower gates would normally be. The other 3 weirs have fish slots on the sides and he said those lower gates are usually opened on lunar cycles even if the upper gates remain closed. Sometimes only the upper gates are opened. Sometimes all gates are opened.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Reggoh

MG, the slideshow that CRPA did covers all of the weir operation. I found it very informative.

If I remember correctly, 2 of the 5 East side weirs only have upper gates and their fish slots are underwater where the lower gates would normally be. The other 3 weirs have fish slots on the sides and he said those lower gates are usually opened on lunar cycles even if the upper gates remain closed. Sometimes only the upper gates are opened. Sometimes all gates are opened.

Thanks.

Hopefully, they'll post the presentation to put all the definitive info in one convenient place.

[Reggoh]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Thanks.

Hopefully, they'll post the presentation to put all the definitive info in one convenient place.

http://coastal.la.gov/wp-content/upl...n-7-9-2014.pdf
http://coastal.la.gov/wp-content/upl..._CCA-final.pdf


BOOM!! Here ya go!

The first is the history of the weirs and their operation... the 2nd is the scientific stuff that im sure you will spend hours poring over.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Thanks.

Hopefully, they'll post the presentation to put all the definitive info in one convenient place.

The power point presentation has pictures of each weir and shows the under water gate design of each weir.

[Reggoh]

Mr. Perrodin did mention that the Grand Bayou structure has some type of flap structures underwater which allow water to flow out of the marsh but do not allow water to flow in. Like a check valve. I don't think he said how many there were or how big they were. He did not have a slide showing the layout of grand bayou weir... only the 1 picture of the boat bay.