Weirs Closed

[Smalls]

Well, the levee was constructed in 1983. Weirs went into operation 1989. 1988 was the closest date to those two to show any difference. If you look at 1956 to 1978 land loss (1978 was the only year in between '56 and '88 that was analyzed), the rate of loss was approximately 4639 acres per year. From 78 to 88, it was about 500 per year then.

I don't know where you're going to get a land loss analysis for the last 6 years. I haven't seen one. The sabine/calcasieu basin lost approximately 14,000 acres of land based on Barras's (2006) estimate of land loss after Hurricanes Rita and Katrina. There is another Barras publication from 2009, but it analyzes landloss over the entire Chenier plain and not by watershed.

[Jadams]

In 1989 the weirs weren't opened and closed as they are now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

["W"]

Our tax money pays for that marshb,land and weirs and yet we can not access it as we please

The local economy from the weirs takes a hit also

My neighbor here at Heberts has two girls and is not a big fisherman be rather go behind the weirs and crab with family or fish for flounder. He spends around $300-500 a day when he is down here but when weirs are closed he never comes along with several other family's. If you want to manage them this way at least open on weekends and allow family's access and close Sunday night or close every night and open during daylight ( but that's is too much work and that is asking to much from our tax money)

[Jadams]

W u run a haynie!!! PVC pipe on the levee hit 60 and trim up ! U got this!! Ol swamper Troy ain't got nothing on u!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

["W"]

Found out some goods... now it's all coming together.......wheeeeee this some good info and I will post his name when I find out his last name


Turns out the people who now contract the weirs are from Cameron and the head man who controls the weirs is a huge duck hunter in this marsh!!!!

Now you know the rest of the story!!

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by "W"

Found out some goods... now it's all coming together.......wheeeeee this some good info and I will post his name when I find out his last name


Turns out the people who now contract the weirs are from Cameron and the head man who controls the weirs is a huge duck hunter in this marsh!!!!

Now you know the rest of the story!!

I know who had the contract last year. Can't remember the name of the company right now. Don't know who it is this year. Lets hear it Waltrip. I'm curious.

[bgizzle]

Originally Posted by "W"

Found out some goods... now it's all coming together.......wheeeeee this some good info and I will post his name when I find out his last name


Turns out the people who now contract the weirs are from Cameron and the head man who controls the weirs is a huge duck hunter in this marsh!!!!

Now you know the rest of the story!!

WOW! Good find! Answer to all questions as y'all said. Soooo.... What's the plan?


"Go ahead, share your opinion! I won't cry"

[noodle creek]

Smalls, no disrespect intended, is the marsh on the west side of west cove going to eventually erode up to hwy 27, or is it more of a saltwater marsh that can tolerate high salt content? Also, how much has west cove eroded since 1956 when the land loss data started being obtained?

These conversations used to consist of you and duck butter saying that the weirs aren't managed for "weigeon grass" but on this thread it turned into "it is a NWR and all NWR are managed for waterfowl."

If different people can obtain contracts to manage the weirs, how can we be so sure that they really are being used for their purpose of stopping erosion, and not just for the good of duck hunters in that marsh?

If the erosion issue is the number one priority for our estuary, and the answer to the west cove question is yes, then why aren't there weirs over there?

I completely understand the good intent behind the weirs, I just feel that if we could rock the ship channel, maybe mother nature ought to be left alone to do her thing.

[bgizzle]

Originally Posted by noodle creek

Smalls, no disrespect intended, is the marsh on the west side of west cove going to eventually erode up to hwy 27, or is it more of a saltwater marsh that can tolerate high salt content? Also, how much has west cove eroded since 1956 when the land loss data started being obtained?

These conversations used to consist of you and duck butter saying that the weirs aren't managed for "weigeon grass" but on this thread it turned into "it is a NWR and all NWR are managed for waterfowl."

If different people can obtain contracts to manage the weirs, how can we be so sure that they really are being used for their purpose of stopping erosion, and not just for the good of duck hunters in that marsh?

If the erosion issue is the number one priority for our estuary, and the answer to the west cove question is yes, then why aren't there weirs over there?

I completely understand the good intent behind the weirs, I just feel that if we could rock the ship channel, maybe mother nature ought to be left alone to do her thing.

GOLD!!!


"Go ahead, share your opinion! I won't cry"

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by noodle creek

Smalls, no disrespect intended, is the marsh on the west side of west cove going to eventually erode up to hwy 27, or is it more of a saltwater marsh that can tolerate high salt content? Also, how much has west cove eroded since 1956 when the land loss data started being obtained?

These conversations used to consist of you and duck butter saying that the weirs aren't managed for "weigeon grass" but on this thread it turned into "it is a NWR and all NWR are managed for waterfowl."

If different people can obtain contracts to manage the weirs, how can we be so sure that they really are being used for their purpose of stopping erosion, and not just for the good of duck hunters in that marsh?

If the erosion issue is the number one priority for our estuary, and the answer to the west cove question is yes, then why aren't there weirs over there?

I completely understand the good intent behind the weirs, I just feel that if we could rock the ship channel, maybe mother nature ought to be left alone to do her thing.

In all honesty, I'm not sure what makes the west cove marsh more sustainable. It is just as fresh as a lot of Cameron-Creole is. Looking back at a few land loss figures, there is not near as much conversion to open water as in the Cameron-Creole. For what ever reason, that area is more sustainable. I've got a report on the hydrologic history of the Sabine/Calcasieu basin that might have some information on that. I haven't studied that area as extensively as I have the Cameron-Creole. It's too large for me to post here, but if you'd like, I could e-mail it to you if you want to take a look at it. Pretty cool report with a lot of testimony from biologists and marsh managers from around the area.

I'll send that to anyone that may want to read it. Used to you could find the whole report on lacoast.gov, but I have no clue what happened to it. I had even talked to the people that manage the website and the whole report was put on there.

As for the widgeon grass/NWR conversation: that was not my meaning when I made that statement about the NWR. The National Wildlife Refuge was set up to manage waterfowl habitat. The weirs were not just set up to manage the NWR, but the Cameron-Creole watershed as a whole. I don't think the NWR even makes up half of the watershed.

Honestly, to the question of the contracts, there really is no way to know if they are going to manage the weirs the way they were intended to be managed.

If the channel could be rocked, it may be another level of salinity control. That question should be asked of the people that devised the original plan. Why wasn't that considered? Or if it was, what made it so that it was not the plan implemented?

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Smalls

In all honesty, I'm not sure what makes the west cove marsh more sustainable. It is just as fresh as a lot of Cameron-Creole is. Looking back at a few land loss figures, there is not near as much conversion to open water as in the Cameron-Creole. For what ever reason, that area is more sustainable.

A few possibilities, not mutually exclusive:

1. West cove is less connected to the ship channel. This means, on average, salinities in west cove are lower than on the east side. Less salt -> less land loss.

2. It may have a slightly higher average soil height when the channel was dug. Even 6" would make a big difference to how far beyond the bay salt penetrated into the marsh.

3. Possibly different soil types or different pH. I have not seen any studies, but I'd bet salinity tolerance depends a bit on soil pH.

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

A few possibilities, not mutually exclusive:

1. West cove is less connected to the ship channel. This means, on average, salinities in west cove are lower than on the east side. Less salt -> less land loss.

2. It may have a slightly higher average soil height when the channel was dug. Even 6" would make a big difference to how far beyond the bay salt penetrated into the marsh.

3. Possibly different soil types or different pH. I have not seen any studies, but I'd bet salinity tolerance depends a bit on soil pH.

Valid hypotheses. I don't know about #3 though. Most of the soils are the same. You have banckers, Creole, clovelly, scatlake, aquents, and udifluvents in both areas. A big part of my thesis was the effect of soils on vegetation, and a lot of Cameron parish is the same stuff. You've got about 40% of the parish underlain by allemands, bancker, and Creole soils. Add scatlake and clovelly to that list, and the Top 5 acreages by soil type account for 50% of the total land area in Cameron parish.

I'm not sure about the pHs, but if I remember right, most of them are about the same. They are all marsh soils (then again, what isn't in Cameron).

[Big pond]

Originally Posted by Smalls

Valid hypotheses. I don't know about #3 though. Most of the soils are the same. You have banckers, Creole, clovelly, scatlake, aquents, and udifluvents in both areas. A big part of my thesis was the effect of soils on vegetation, and a lot of Cameron parish is the same stuff. You've got about 40% of the parish underlain by allemands, bancker, and Creole soils. Add scatlake and clovelly to that list, and the Top 5 acreages by soil type account for 50% of the total land area in Cameron parish.

I'm not sure about the pHs, but if I remember right, most of them are about the same. They are all marsh soils (then again, what isn't in Cameron).

I don't know any scientific names but I dig in the ground for a living and the soil around hackberry and south has a very high clay content compared to the rest of Cameron that does not have clay and caves in as u dig

["W"]

I made one phone call to one person who has been working on info about weirs, he informed me the guy who controls weirs is a big duck hunter back there.... And once I get his contact info I will post it!!

Text and call that bastard till he changes his number

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by "W"

I made one phone call to one person who has been working on info about weirs, he informed me the guy who controls weirs is a big duck hunter back there.... And once I get his contact info I will post it!!

Text and call that bastard till he changes his number

not cool

[rustyb]

Where is Clampy? Our resident grass expert!!!

[toodeep]

right now every one is crying because you don't have the fish you are suppose to, next you will be crying when the marsh is gone and big lake will butt up to the intercostal. if you need more testimonials look in Leeville Louisiana that use to be fresh water and have cypress trees every where. now there is saltwater to Cut off. but the weirs should be open. why not make a roll over for bay boats

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by toodeep

right now every one is crying because you don't have the fish you are suppose to, next you will be crying when the marsh is gone and big lake will butt up to the intercostal. if you need more testimonials look in Leeville Louisiana that use to be fresh water and have cypress trees every where. now there is saltwater to Cut off. but the weirs should be open. why not make a roll over for bay boats

that side of the state is the poster child for saltwater intrusion, erosion, subsidence, man fricking with nature, etc., I often wonder if some of the folks on this site have ever ventured over that way, its where I used to do most my saltwater fishing and every year I go down there the change is clear as day to me. My hippie bro in-law and our fams go down to Grand Isle every year for the last 5 and he even noticed that some of the little islands of marsh we were fishing have disappeared, he has some spots marked on his phone that are literally not there anymore.

Otherwise, I think the fishing this year is a little off all over the place due to the weather, even in north Louisiana. People are complaining about the fishing up there with white perch, with all kinds of interesting theories The winter time bite lasted way into March this year when you on normal years would be catching fish spawning. Just last weekend everyone fishing the banks were complaining about the lack of fish, we were able to find a bunch of fish still staged out waiting to spawn. 17 of the fish were females still full of eggs, and that is strange for late April on the lake we were fishing.

And to add to the everything is late comment: wading birds like Great Egrets that you can set a clock by when they arrive and start making nests in February were a few weeks behind schedule as well. We normally have chicks ready to fly right now, but most are still sitting on eggs or they just hatched in the last 2 days. Last week there were roseate spoonbills just starting nests which is a month behind schedule. Many other casual observations as well

[noodle creek]

Originally Posted by Duck Butter

that side of the state is the poster child for saltwater intrusion, erosion, subsidence, man fricking with nature, etc., I often wonder if some of the folks on this site have ever ventured over that way, its where I used to do most my saltwater fishing and every year I go down there the change is clear as day to me. My hippie bro in-law and our fams go down to Grand Isle every year for the last 5 and he even noticed that some of the little islands of marsh we were fishing have disappeared, he has some spots marked on his phone that are literally not there anymore.

Otherwise, I think the fishing this year is a little off all over the place due to the weather, even in north Louisiana. People are complaining about the fishing up there with white perch, with all kinds of interesting theories The winter time bite lasted way into March this year when you on normal years would be catching fish spawning. Just last weekend everyone fishing the banks were complaining about the lack of fish, we were able to find a bunch of fish still staged out waiting to spawn. 17 of the fish were females still full of eggs, and that is strange for late April on the lake we were fishing.

Can the eastern side of the state honestly be put in a fair comparison with our estuary? If you say that Sabine and Big Lake are nowhere near the same, then how on earth can the eastern side of the state be compared to Big Lake?

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by noodle creek

Can the eastern side of the state honestly be put in a fair comparison with our estuary? If you say that Sabine and Big Lake are nowhere near the same, then how on earth can the eastern side of the state be compared to Big Lake?

Just pointing out what manmade interference can do. Over there the marshes are starved for sediment and freshwater from the MS River being leveed and saltwater intrusion from all the straightline oil/gas canals (you can see thousands of them on Google Earth) amongst other things. When the MS River flooded in 1927 the US Army Corps of Engineers brought on the levees so that it wouldn't ever happen again. In their mind they were protecting thousands of peoples' lives (they did if you think about it), but they didn't realize the damage to the marshes they were doing. (They did what they intended but didn't realize the consequences)

On the Big Lake side of the world, the ship channel is similarto the straight line oil/gas canals in that it brings in saltwater, and there WAS actual mitigation for this (the saltwater barrier) and later the weirs. The saltwater barrier was installed over 50 years ago because they knew the ship channel would bring in salty water and that would make its way north into the farms and that would be detrimental to agriculture (nothing to do with CCA or wigeongrass). Saltwater getting into areas that can't tolerate excess salinity is bad, it kills and is difficult to get back, and marsh plantings are pretty expensive. Its best to take preventative measures and keep land intact rather than have to restore it back. Marshes are one of the most productive ecosystems in the world, and they also serve a very vital role in hurricane protection.

That is one of the things that people often overlook is the saltwater barrier installed a LONG time ago. The people back then knew saltwater is not good but we never seem to talk about the saltwater barrier for some reason? Why don't we try and get that removed so we can catch trout up in Allen Parish?