Weirs Closed

[noodle creek]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

It depends on where exactly you mean. There's a lot of land back there. If you open the weirs more, you introduce the most salt closer to the weirs, and the salt decreases the further away from the weirs you get, so by the time you've got "just the right amount" of salt for your favorite marsh veg mix 3 miles away, you have too much salt at most points closer to the weirs.

Also consider the make-up of that marsh. Everyone wants their hunting spot to have perfect conditions. The eastern edge along 27, S of the ICWW had great duck conditions last fall and winter. We saw beaucoup ducks every time we drove 27 in the fall and winter. Sorry you missed them. Of course, we were fishing, heading back and forth to the jetties and beaches chasing bull reds. Getting permission to hunt closer to 27 might be easier than raising salinity in the spot you currently have access to.

If you want to raise the salinities closer to the ICWW, there are times when it has a bit of salt, though the salinity decreases quickly as you move toward Mermentau and away from the Calcasieu locks. In the area that moves SE, you can have salinities up to 20 ppt at times. Transfering that water into the marsh at the right times would increase salinities in the adjacent areas. (This is a scientific fact, it may not be a political possibility. The USACE and NWR peeps might have issues.) Once you get to the E-W stretch, salinity is much lower most of the time.

But I think the gradients in salinity and vegetation between the lake and 27 are OK. There is probably too much open water as a percentage of the overall land area. (See the attached photo). I don't think the science is on your side thinking you need more open water.

That is kind of what i'm getting at. Even if the weirs were open the perfect amount of time, the whole marsh will not get the same effect.

I know exactly how much land is back there and i hunted all over back there for 6 years, until 2009. It was always good and we rarely missed limits. I hunt in lake arthur every day of the season now so i don't get to go back there any more, but i talk to 3-5 people daily who do hunt back there. From what i hear it's not as good anymore as it was for the few years after rita hit and everything was dead.

[Cripley]

Man all I have to say is I am really enjoying learning the perspectives on the marsh habitat it is a lot more to the story than I ever thought thanks guys for all this info I do believe that if all these perspectives could come together there could be a solution but it takes all sides and Smalls W math geek and the rest I appreciate the passion you guys out into this

[Jadams]

It's funny the old impoundment on the west side of the lake is now wide open... U know why quote straight out of wildlife and fisheries...we've accepted the fact it's now a saltwater marsh...


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[Smalls]

Originally Posted by Jadams

It's funny the old impoundment on the west side of the lake is now wide open... U know why quote straight out of wildlife and fisheries...we've accepted the fact it's now a saltwater marsh...


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On the NWR? Again, LDWF wouldn't have anything to do with ththat because its federal land.

[Jadams]

Originally Posted by Smalls

On the NWR? Again, LDWF wouldn't have anything to do with ththat because its federal land.

Yea billy Leonard's told me that sorry he works for the Refuge same guy that issues the permits...


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[Smalls]

Originally Posted by Jadams

Yea billy Leonard's told me that sorry he works for the Refuge same guy that issues the permits...


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Gotcha, that makes sense.

[Jadams]

And I kill the piss outa ducks rt across from it in a saltwater marsh for whoever said ducks don't like saltwater marshes....


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[Jadams]

There's enough grass that grows in a brackish marsh for ducks...the weirs r a busted plan that's why the refuge doesn't control em


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[Smalls]

Originally Posted by Jadams

There's enough grass that grows in a brackish marsh for ducks...the weirs r a busted plan that's why the refuge doesn't control em


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Who told you that? Because I was working for the state in the middle of all of that, and I can tell you the feds got sick of everyone complaining about them, so they got out. They just flat out dropped the operations and told everyone else involved to find someone else to operate the weirs.

[Jadams]

Originally Posted by Smalls

Who told you that? Because I was working for the state in the middle of all of that, and I can tell you the feds got sick of everyone complaining about them, so they got out. They just flat out dropped the operations and told everyone else involved to find someone else to operate the weirs.

So why where u working for the state if u were on federal land??? Spend 3 weeks in a marsh and 30 yrs behind a computer and ur a resident expert??? Willing to bet u live more than a 100 miles from big lake??? I promise u the guides out here get more observations than the biologist do... Comin out and pulling a troll on 3 locations once a month don't amount to jack...


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[Smalls]

Originally Posted by Jadams

So why where u working for the state if u were on federal land??? Spend 3 weeks in a marsh and 30 yrs behind a computer and ur a resident expert??? Willing to bet u live more than a 100 miles from big lake??? I promise u the guides out here get more observations than the biologist do... Comin out and pulling a troll on 3 locations once a month don't amount to jack...


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I worked for a program overseen by federal and state agencies doing marsh restoration work. We had 3 or 4 projects in the cameron-creole in my time there, and several more before my time. Yeah, I don't live near big lake anymore, but I did for 18 years up until last August.

Its fine, I've grown accustomed to people just blowing off my experience and work. Pretty much why I left that work. People didn't appreciate the work I did, and I got tired of it. Why waste my time making measily money trying to save the marsh when no one else gives a damn?!

I've studied the wetlands of southwest Louisiana extensively, have studied under tthe guys that did the job before me, and studied and worked under former and current marsh managers, but I guess that still means I don't know crap.

I guess LDWF biologists and private landowners contacting me and coordinating with me on marsh revegetation projects doesn't mean squat either.

Like I said, I've gotten used to being belittled. Figured if I'm going to be belittled, might as well do it while making good money.

[Jadams]

I

[Natural Light Kid]

Unfortunately, the number of ducks you see along Hwy 27 is not always a good indicator as to how the duck season is going. I hunted just west of Boudreaux Lake and our hunting sucked last year as well as the people that hunted around us. Also, freakin duck leases are so hard to come by, you sometimes just have to take what you can get. Our side of the marsh has freshened up more and more over the last 3 years. I do know people that hunt further west, closer to Big Lake, and it's more brackish.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Natural Light Kid

Unfortunately, the number of ducks you see along Hwy 27 is not always a good indicator as to how the duck season is going. I hunted just west of Boudreaux Lake and our hunting sucked last year as well as the people that hunted around us. Also, freakin duck leases are so hard to come by, you sometimes just have to take what you can get. Our side of the marsh has freshened up more and more over the last 3 years. I do know people that hunt further west, closer to Big Lake, and it's more brackish.

Do you mean how your duck season is going is not a good indicator of the quality of local habitat? There were more ducks along 27 than I'd ever seen in my life.

And my daddy had some sweet duck leases back in the 1970s. Judging the duck population by what you see when hunting is worse than judging the fish population by how many you catch. It just isn't a sound approach.

I remember being frustrated turkey hunting. All winter I'd see tons and tons of turkeys on a 100 acre farm where I had permission to hunt. Then the spring turkey season would roll around and they'd all disappear to some neighboring properties. The same thing happened my first few deer seasons until I adjusted the habitat and planted some food plots to keep them around during the season. But habitat adjustments don't create ducks (or deer), they just put them in the right place for convenient harvest. (Kinda like the artificial reefs CCA puts in). Our habitat improvements may have increased the carrying capacity by a handful of deer, but we killed 40-50 each year.

Now, it's not wrong to want to improve the habitat so the ducks land on your duck lease rather than somewhere else in the neighborhood. But I don't see why it's the government's job to do it for you, and they certainly shouldn't put other land at greater risk for erosion to improve your hunting.

I'd kinda like all the marsh and land to still be there when my grandchildren are old enough to hunt.

[Natural Light Kid]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Do you mean how your duck season is going is not a good indicator of the quality of local habitat? There were more ducks along 27 than I'd ever seen in my life.

And my daddy had some sweet duck leases back in the 1970s. Judging the duck population by what you see when hunting is worse than judging the fish population by how many you catch. It just isn't a sound approach.

I remember being frustrated turkey hunting. All winter I'd see tons and tons of turkeys on a 100 acre farm where I had permission to hunt. Then the spring turkey season would roll around and they'd all disappear to some neighboring properties. The same thing happened my first few deer seasons until I adjusted the habitat and planted some food plots to keep them around during the season. But habitat adjustments don't create ducks (or deer), they just put them in the right place for convenient harvest. (Kinda like the artificial reefs CCA puts in). Our habitat improvements may have increased the carrying capacity by a handful of deer, but we killed 40-50 each year.

Now, it's not wrong to want to improve the habitat so the ducks land on your duck lease rather than somewhere else in the neighborhood. But I don't see why it's the government's job to do it for you, and they certainly shouldn't put other land at greater risk for erosion to improve your hunting.

I'd kinda like all the marsh and land to still be there when my grandchildren are old enough to hunt.

Sorry for the mix up. I was just stating that just because you see a lot of ducks along Hwy 27 doesn't mean the hunting is good in the surrounding marshes. In no way was I trying to relate my duck hunting to the health of the estuary. I agree with everything else you said. Biggest part of our problem was our particular section of marsh. That was our responsibility not the governments. I understand that a healthy marsh may not result in limits of ducks on our particular section as well as limits of fish everyday on the lake. It ain't a perfect world.

[jchief]

Someone please educate me. I thought I saw a sign on the weirs that it is owned by Cameron Parish something or other??

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by jchief

Someone please educate me. I thought I saw a sign on the weirs that it is owned by Cameron Parish something or other??

Ownership of public works projects after they are built, destroyed by a disaster, and then repaired is a complex legal question, especially when the project spans a navigable waterway.

Ownership of the structure may also be different from management authority which appears to have been delegated several times to a contractor.

As far as I can tell, the process of applying the right kinds of pressure to the contractor actually controlling the switches to better align openings and closings with scientific data, the goals of the weirs, and the desires of the public is much more involved than figuring out who owns the structure.

I expect the contract is designed to insulate the contractor from demands of the public, is vague about the actual management plans, and specifies a government party to oversee the operation in a manner to obfuscate and frustrate accountability to the public or to scientific principles of operation.

And I bet both the contractor and the government overseers are proud of themselves for these arrangements.

[Jadams]

Show me some scientific facts that weir has made???? I fish the marsh east of Sabine see some yrs w lots of grass some w little depends on the rainfall that yr...those marshes are healthy w no weirs...so what if u get a salinity reading 15ft on the other side of the weir??? Go catch one 5 miles back and Itll be valid shutting a gate


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[Jadams]

Do u agree grass can get hit w a high salinity then salinity lower a week later and it come back????


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[Jadams]

What bout all the hogs tearing up the marsh losing tons of land there? But ain't ever heard a restoration guy talk bout that??


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