Calcasieu Relative Condition Factor Study 2012 Preliminary Results

[Top Dawg]

Originally Posted by Feesherman

You took POTENTIALLY 40% less trout. You have no clue what the real number is.

I prolly killed 6 or 7 in west cove Saturday when I took a dump in a bucket and dumped it in the water.

["W"]

Originally Posted by Feesherman

You took POTENTIALLY 40% less trout. You have no clue what the real number is.

Limit was 25 now 15 which is 40% less trout taken by anglers

[Feesherman]

Originally Posted by "W"

Limit was 25 now 15 which is 40% less trout taken by anglers

So you're assuming everyone always caught their limit?

["W"]

Originally Posted by Feesherman

So you're assuming everyone always caught their limit?

Com on Man

...really ????

[jchief]

Just for some background, what is y'alls eduction level and what is your degree in?

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by jchief

Just for some background, what is y'alls eduction level and what is your degree in?

M.S. in Biology, work in natural resources management = (office fisherman)

Got my master's from UL Monroe though and not Big Lake U!

[mcjaredsandwich]

Originally Posted by jchief

I really wish it was as simple as a lack of bait or too many fish or whatever.

This study provides valuable data, but there are other data that need to be considered.

Great job Math Geek. Keep up the work.

If a deer doesn't eat, does it grow? If there are too many deer in an area, is there enough food? Food makes things grow. Simple as that. If fish are thinner, they've eaten less. This isn't fitting a square peg in a round hole.

sammich

[mcjaredsandwich]

Originally Posted by jchief

Just for some background, what is y'alls eduction level and what is your degree in?

Bout to get my bachelors in general agriculture with 40 hours of wildlife management as electives.

sammich

[BloodKnot]

I agree with Duck Butter, the trend down started with Rita. And Ike didn't help.

Those storms hurt our marshes and the drought didn't stop salt water intrusion.

Protect the coast and our marshes.

I think no one can definitively state that the limit of 15 or 25 is the main reason.

[jchief]

Originally Posted by mcjaredsandwich

If a deer doesn't eat, does it grow? If there are too many deer in an area, is there enough food? Food makes things grow. Simple as that. If fish are thinner, they've eaten less. This isn't fitting a square peg in a round hole.

sammich

Then why is there bait all over the lake?

Not as simple as we would like it to be.

[mikedatiger]

Originally Posted by jchief

Then why is there bait all over the lake?

Not as simple as we would like it to be.

Agree with you 100% on this. Don't know why people keep trying to compare deer to trout, or pond fish to trout or brook trout to speckled trout… If there is an overabundance of bait then something else is the cause, or a contributor to the cause.

Using the same flawed comparison of deer - land has hugely different carrying capacities when it comes to supporting a healthy deer herd. I have seen both ends of the spectrum and hungry deer will eat dang near anything and pick the area clean - have even seen them eat magnolia leaves…

But we're talking about an open environment with an abundance of bait and a super highway influencing movement.

[mcjaredsandwich]

I've wondered the same. But body condition is a big indicator of low food supply

sammich

[Kajundave]

[SIZE=3]I applaud MG for his effort; I can see that “W” isn’t going to let it GO, I started fishing BL about 7 years ago and if there was 40 boats on the lake on Saturday that would have been a lot, the majority were jon boats with 40 hp outboards and most of them didn’t make it past Turners Bay, now that Calcasieu Landing is in place there is a lot more pressure on the lake, I am amazed that some people had foresight to lower limits on trout,( based on 25 per person limit) think about it if you have 100 boats on the lake with two fisherman per boat and 80% of them limit out, that’s 4000 trout a day. Now compound it to 300 boats fishing Saturday and Sunday that’s potentially 24000 trout, how long do you think the trout will hold out.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Now with that being said 10 years ago there was just a hand full of guides, now the numbers have tripled, let’s just say 20 guides, most of them fish 2 people average 3 trips a week 52 weeks is potentially 140400, thats just guides and customers… JUST SAYING ![/SIZE]

["W"]

Originally Posted by Kajundave

[SIZE=3]I applaud MG for his effort; I can see that “W” isn’t going to let it GO, I started fishing BL about 7 years ago and if there was 40 boats on the lake on Saturday that would have been a lot, the majority were jon boats with 40 hp outboards and most of them didn’t make it past Turners Bay, now that Calcasieu Landing is in place there is a lot more pressure on the lake, I am amazed that some people had foresight to lower limits on trout,( based on 25 per person limit) think about it if you have 100 boats on the lake with two fisherman per boat and 80% of them limit out, that’s 4000 trout a day. Now compound it to 300 boats fishing Saturday and Sunday that’s potentially 24000 trout, how long do you think the trout will hold out.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Now with that being said 10 years ago there was just a hand full of guides, now the numbers have tripled, let’s just say 20 guides, most of them fish 2 people average 3 trips a week 52 weeks is potentially 140400, thats just guides and customers… JUST SAYING ![/SIZE]

1st off if you have 100 guide boats any given day 40 only limit out......if you have 300 weekend warriors only 50 of them limit out....on any given weekend

MG went to Cal point and looked at fish and one day no body had a limit of trout.....

Most will not limit out but the ones who can and do should be able to keep more trout


Just because a guide has his papers dont mean he is a fisherman who limits out every trip...most guides now have not even fished the 10 years yet

[Top Dawg]

140,000 is just one egg sack from a 12" trout.

[bgizzle]

Just my 2 cents. There is a lot of bait in the lake right NOW cuz it's summer but before and after you need it as well. I haven't been fishing the lake for 10 yrs actually this is my third but learning fast and I can tell changes. I knew buddies that fished it a lot when my job wouldn't let me and the size of the trot is down and it would be understandable that marsh and bait play a role but seems just like deer management that the number of trout as a whole would be a bigger threat. I do the same thing "w" I cut open 90% of the fish I clean and haven't ever saw a speckled sea trot in a stomach of another

[Top Dawg]

I'll say I've never seen a trout in another trouts belly.

[Kajundave]

I did go on line to see how many eggs a trout can spawn; less than 5 lbs. 100,000, over 5lbs could be up to 1000000, about one percent survive to 12 inches, It also said it takes two years for a trout to reach 12 inches, you add environment changes, pressure, boat traffic running across the reefs, it all adds up, I will admit I had to buy a golden rule this year, I have never had to measure a fish before in BL.. I am not sure what is making the changes but something is for sure!
I believe there is a lot more Ship Traffic than usual; I have seen more ships since late last year than I have seen in several years combined. Generally the salinity stays the same in the bottom half of the ship channel, but those big ships churning up the bottom, mixing all of that fresh water with the salt water can’t be good on the fisheries either. Man fixes one problem and creates another; it is just the way it is!

["W"]

Originally Posted by Kajundave

I did go on line to see how many eggs a trout can spawn; less than 5 lbs. 100,000, over 5lbs could be up to 1000000, about one percent survive to 12 inches, It also said it takes two years for a trout to reach 12 inches, you add environment changes, pressure, boat traffic running across the reefs, it all adds up, I will admit I had to buy a golden rule this year, I have never had to measure a fish before in BL.. I am not sure what is making the changes but something is for sure!
I believe there is a lot more Ship Traffic than usual; I have seen more ships since late last year than I have seen in several years combined. Generally the salinity stays the same in the bottom half of the ship channel, but those big ships churning up the bottom, mixing all of that fresh water with the salt water can’t be good on the fisheries either. Man fixes one problem and creates another; it is just the way it is!

Big Fact for smaller trout is the only thing that has changed and that is from 25 trout to 15 trout in a healty estuary ..
We are leaving 40% more trout per day than 6 years ago

Here is some good Facts for Trout

SPECKLED TROUT FACTS
by Jerald Horst

(Revised June 2003)

Besides being popular in many south Louisiana restaurants, it is targeted by more recreational fishermen than any other saltwater fish. In the last 10 years, recreational fishermen have harvested an average of 6,578,061 speckled trout from Louisiana waters annually – this is more than 93% of the combined recreational/commercial harvest. The best year for recreational landings was 2000 with a take of 9,615,942 specks and the poorest year was 1990, the year after the great freeze, with 2,679,167 landings.

Although the commercial catch had been regulated by minimum sizes and gear restrictions, the recreational fishery was unregulated until 1977, when a combined daily limit of 50 was placed on speckled trout and redfish. In 1984 the possession limit was reduced to the daily limit, and a new saltwater fishing license was required. This was followed by a 12-inch minimum size (14- inch commercial) in 1987 and the recreational limit was reduced to 25 in 1988. Speckled trout management and biology remain an area of high public interest. Some of the most commonly asked questions on the subject are answered below.

Why do we have a 12-inch minimum size on speckled trout?
A minimum size of 12 inches allows most fish to spawn at least once before reaching harvestable size. All of the males and more than 75% of the females are sexually mature at 12 inches long. The minimum size also increases the overall yield of the fishery. Each year since the regulation went into effect, the average size of recreationally caught specks has been more than 13 inches. Before the minimum size requirement, the average size of recreationally taken specks was as low as 10 inches.
'Why don’t we have a larger minimum size, such as 14 inches?
Speckled trout have sex-specific growth and survival rates. Males grow slower and don’t grow as large as females. In Louisiana, males do not reach a size of 14 inches until their third or fourth years. Since few specks live beyond age 5, and more than 70% of the total speckled trout population is age 3 or younger, very few males grow to larger sizes. This would result in a loss of recreational opportunity to harvest the males and could possibly cause a shift of harvest pressure to females.
How many of the undersized, released speckled trout really survive?
The majority of hook-caught speckled trout survive when released. Louisiana conducted a 18-month study ending in 1995 on the survival of released speckled trout. The survival rate depended on the fishing method. Treble hook artificials had a 97% survival rate, single hook artificials were 91%, treble hook with bait had 83%, and single hook with bait was 74%. The overall average survival rate was 82.5%. Research done in 1984 in Texas showed a survival rate of 73%, and a Georgia study, done in 1990, showed a 63.8% rate.
Why don’t we close the season during spawning time?
Speckled trout exhibit a protracted spawning season, lasting from April to September. Females ready to spawn have even been recorded in March and October. Closing the season during spawning would result in a 5 to 7 month closure. Also, from a biological perspective, any removal of a female fish from a population has the same impact. Regardless of whether the fish is caught 8 months or 8 days before it spawns, the result is the removal of the fish and all of her future offspring. Since there is little biological advantage to such a measure and since the closure would take place during the months of best fishing weather and most intense recreational activity, the negatives outweigh the possible benefits.
Why can’t I catch more big trout?
Aside from the fact that there are many more small trout than large ones, large speckled trout are very specialized creatures. Large trout are not as widely distributed as small trout. The largest trout are taken in the spring, next largest in winter, then fall and summer, out in the Gulf. Large but lesser sized trout are taken near beaches, lesser still in lakes and bays, and the smallest usually in the marsh. Anglers prefer to fish for specks in summer and the second preference is fall. Fishing is most intense in sheltered inside waters. More big trout are caught in spring because they move into shallow beach and bay habitats at that time for their first spawn of the season. The rest of the summer and early fall, the larger trout tend to stay in cooler Gulf waters and only periodically enter beach and bay habitats for subsequent spawns. Many of the large fish winter offshore, with a few wintering in the interior marshes, where they are very sluggish. [/SIZE]
[Large trout also have very different food habits than school trout. Small trout eat large amounts of shrimp and other crustaceans. As trout become larger, their diet shifts toward fish, the larger, the better. Studies in Texas and Mississippi show that really big trout strongly prefer to feed on mullets; a large trout will find the largest mullet it can handle and try to swallow it. Often the mullet is half or two-thirds as large as the trout. The key to catching large trout is to fish where they are and use big baits.
What is the future of recreational speckled trout fishing?
The future of the fishery depends on two factors: good habitat and good management. If our coastal areas remain unpolluted and coastal erosion is controlled, management will be the key. Very few more speckled trout can be produced from other sources. If the entire commercial speckled trout harvest were divided up equally among Louisiana’s over 400 thousand recreational anglers, each sport fisherman would get less than one fish per person per year. Research has also shown that very few speckled trout appear in shrimp trawl bycatch. This means that gains and losses will be the result of management within the recreational fishery. Management priorities, as set by recreational leadership, will determine whether the fishery is managed for liberal limits and smaller fish or restrictive creel limits and larger fish.

[bmac]

"Management priorities, as set by recreational leadership, will determine whether the fishery is managed for liberal limits and smaller fish or restrictive creel limits and larger fish."

I would have never guessed you were a liberal, W.