How would you ;

[fishinpox]

ok here my .02$

ive hunted in africa , i have first hand seen what hunter dollars do for the community, for conservation , and for education . if there is no monetary value placed on "game" then the locals will either 1) hunt the animal into extinction or 2) try to kill very last animal off that is seen as competition to their cattle and sheep . one of the areas i hunted in africa was once farm land and nearly all of the native game was wiped out by farmers UNTIL hunter dollars ( primarily U.S. hunter dollars) was pumped into this area so fences could be removed , native wildlife re introduced and MANAGED . it is all about the management . just this one area has had easily 20-30,000,000.00 dollars put into it by an american , not including all the money generated by hunters once it was made huntable again. the outfit i hunted with has started a CHRISTIAN school that is FREE or cost very little to have local children their, i have seen the school first hand and have made financial commitments to provide a christian education to a local girl my wife and i have adopted ...again hunter dollars going back into the community . for all the people that say i only shoot what i eat , ok thats fine that is your choice but again i have first hand experience watching every part of EVERY animal i shot in africa get eaten / used and for the most part get used by someone who is living in poverty like you could never imagine. Generally when "trophy" hunting the hunter is seeking a large animal , usually the largest ( horned )animals animals are also the oldest . but hunters shooting the oldest ( usually the dominant male) they are actually helping allow newer , younger blood to breed .
Now to talk about the way this animal was hunted ... people are complaining saying it was lured out of a protected area , maybe so BUT 99% of lion hunts are hunts invloving baiting a lion to come in so you can kill it , did the hunter know it was lured in from a national park ? who knows. ive read that this guy paid 55,000.00 for this hunt , i also know he is an avid hunter , this amount of a trophy fee usually goes along with a free range lion hunt not a high fenced hunt ( which most of the lion hunts in africa are but the fenced hunts a usually cheaper ) . now the tracking collar , did the hunter see it before he shot? if so shame on him , but i can see how it would be hard to see as that lion has a massive mane . the mane also points to something else , free range lions do not look as "pretty" or full maned as cecil does , they generally have more scaring on their face / body and the manes are not as full UNLESS if they are raised in captivity . did the hunter know this? again who knows, all i can do is speak from my personal experiences .

[swamp snorkler]

Originally Posted by fishinpox

ok here my .02$

ive hunted in africa , i have first hand seen what hunter dollars do for the community, for conservation , and for education . if there is no monetary value placed on "game" then the locals will either 1) hunt the animal into extinction or 2) try to kill very last animal off that is seen as competition to their cattle and sheep . one of the areas i hunted in africa was once farm land and nearly all of the native game was wiped out by farmers UNTIL hunter dollars ( primarily U.S. hunter dollars) was pumped into this area so fences could be removed , native wildlife re introduced and MANAGED . it is all about the management . just this one area has had easily 20-30,000,000.00 dollars put into it by an american , not including all the money generated by hunters once it was made huntable again. the outfit i hunted with has started a CHRISTIAN school that is FREE or cost very little to have local children their, i have seen the school first hand and have made financial commitments to provide a christian education to a local girl my wife and i have adopted ...again hunter dollars going back into the community . for all the people that say i only shoot what i eat , ok thats fine that is your choice but again i have first hand experience watching every part of EVERY animal i shot in africa get eaten / used and for the most part get used by someone who is living in poverty like you could never imagine. Generally when "trophy" hunting the hunter is seeking a large animal , usually the largest ( horned )animals animals are also the oldest . but hunters shooting the oldest ( usually the dominant male) they are actually helping allow newer , younger blood to breed .
Now to talk about the way this animal was hunted ... people are complaining saying it was lured out of a protected area , maybe so BUT 99% of lion hunts are hunts invloving baiting a lion to come in so you can kill it , did the hunter know it was lured in from a national park ? who knows. ive read that this guy paid 55,000.00 for this hunt , i also know he is an avid hunter , this amount of a trophy fee usually goes along with a free range lion hunt not a high fenced hunt ( which most of the lion hunts in africa are but the fenced hunts a usually cheaper ) . now the tracking collar , did the hunter see it before he shot? if so shame on him , but i can see how it would be hard to see as that lion has a massive mane . the mane also points to something else , free range lions do not look as "pretty" or full maned as cecil does , they generally have more scaring on their face / body and the manes are not as full UNLESS if they are raised in captivity . did the hunter know this? again who knows, all i can do is speak from my personal experiences .

I was thinking if he shot it with a cross-bow he was closs enough to see the color, never thought about the mane covering it, good point.

[Speck Attack]

Originally Posted by fishinpox

ok here my .02$

ive hunted in africa , i have first hand seen what hunter dollars do for the community, for conservation , and for education . if there is no monetary value placed on "game" then the locals will either 1) hunt the animal into extinction or 2) try to kill very last animal off that is seen as competition to their cattle and sheep . one of the areas i hunted in africa was once farm land and nearly all of the native game was wiped out by farmers UNTIL hunter dollars ( primarily U.S. hunter dollars) was pumped into this area so fences could be removed , native wildlife re introduced and MANAGED . it is all about the management . just this one area has had easily 20-30,000,000.00 dollars put into it by an american , not including all the money generated by hunters once it was made huntable again. the outfit i hunted with has started a CHRISTIAN school that is FREE or cost very little to have local children their, i have seen the school first hand and have made financial commitments to provide a christian education to a local girl my wife and i have adopted ...again hunter dollars going back into the community . for all the people that say i only shoot what i eat , ok thats fine that is your choice but again i have first hand experience watching every part of EVERY animal i shot in africa get eaten / used and for the most part get used by someone who is living in poverty like you could never imagine. Generally when "trophy" hunting the hunter is seeking a large animal , usually the largest ( horned )animals animals are also the oldest . but hunters shooting the oldest ( usually the dominant male) they are actually helping allow newer , younger blood to breed .
Now to talk about the way this animal was hunted ... people are complaining saying it was lured out of a protected area , maybe so BUT 99% of lion hunts are hunts invloving baiting a lion to come in so you can kill it , did the hunter know it was lured in from a national park ? who knows. ive read that this guy paid 55,000.00 for this hunt , i also know he is an avid hunter , this amount of a trophy fee usually goes along with a free range lion hunt not a high fenced hunt ( which most of the lion hunts in africa are but the fenced hunts a usually cheaper ) . now the tracking collar , did the hunter see it before he shot? if so shame on him , but i can see how it would be hard to see as that lion has a massive mane . the mane also points to something else , free range lions do not look as "pretty" or full maned as cecil does , they generally have more scaring on their face / body and the manes are not as full UNLESS if they are raised in captivity . did the hunter know this? again who knows, all i can do is speak from my personal experiences .

Pox..I have read many of your posts and truely respect your style of hunting and do believe the Safari/trophy hunt does a lot for the local community. Again it is only my choice to only kill what I choose to eat...my issues with this Hunter is: I know everyone make mistake However after the kill when he notice the collar (yes I believe he knew/notice the collar), instead of doing the right thing and notifing the authority with a Satellite phone, he made the choice to continue to cut the head off the animal, skin it, leave the meat to waste and try to destroy the gps tracking collar....to me that make him a POACHER....not a true Hunter...My .02..

[kcinnick]

Hunting Rhino's saved the Rhino populations. Farmers didn't care about poachers killing a Rhino for its horn. Bring in American entrepreneurs who suddenly made these Rhino very valuable and the farmers stood up to the poachers. Something Governments, police forces, military forces, animal control agencies, conservation groups COULD NOT DO. AMERICAN hunters are responsible for the rebound for trophy hunting.

Having managed hunts of these large animals has made conservation efforts work because the people are actually getting money in their pockets from the hunts. Every other way was pissing money in the wind.

[Smalls]

Regardless of whether he saw the collar, the PH was arrested for not having a permit and no quota. The hunt was illegal.

Also, Dr. Palmer has been previously convicted of illegal hunting. Killed a black bear and then falsified where he killed it.

I'm not against these hunts. I am against dirtbags that give hunters a bad name. And this guy is starting to look like a dirtbag. Why did he try to say the bear was killed somewhere else? Why didn't he check to make sure the PH and farmer had all the necessary permits? What about that quota: could he have determined if there was a quota in that area?

Too many questions right now, but the fact that this guy has had issues in the past puts me off.

[fishinpox]

Originally Posted by Smalls

Regardless of whether he saw the collar, the PH was arrested for not having a permit and no quota. The hunt was illegal.

Also, Dr. Palmer has been previously convicted of illegal hunting. Killed a black bear and then falsified where he killed it.

I'm not against these hunts. I am against dirtbags that give hunters a bad name. And this guy is starting to look like a dirtbag. Why did he try to say the bear was killed somewhere else? Why didn't he check to make sure the PH and farmer had all the necessary permits? What about that quota: could he have determined if there was a quota in that area?

Too many questions right now, but the fact that this guy has had issues in the past puts me off.

I agree, based off what I've heard it sounds like illegal poaching . Now the question is did the hunter know?

[Duffy.yyz]

I like how everyone on Facebook became exotic game extraordinaire over night...

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by Duffy.yyz

I like how everyone on Facebook became exotic game extraordinaire over night...

Man that is every time. And the morons don't even educate themselves. A few months ago when there was all the rage over a northern black rhino being shot, no one looked up the status of the rhino. They just ran with black rhino.

"Oh it's endangered".

"I can't believe someone would kill an endangered species."

Newsflash Facebook warriors, the Northern black rhino is not endangered.

Same thing with that Texas Tech Cheerleader that goes and hunts lions and tigers. None of the species she was hunting and posing with were endangered. But people believe what some website says, and run with it.

I wonder how many of these people are doing anything for the conservation of these species?

My guess: not very many.

[AlexOrtego]

here's my .02 which i'm sure is against all popular belief.... i hunt everything possible in this state ducks(all the time), squirrels(all the time), deer occasionally, doves, rabbits, woodcock, and even snipe now and then but........ Even though i dont argue killing "Lions" or "giraffes", i have ZERO urge to shoot those animals unless it would be self-defense which clearly wont ever happen........ I just dont get why ppl would care to spend money to hunt those animals/want to kill them

[Lake Chuck Duck]

These people, Ive seen more people all offended that a guy killed a lion on another continent than people that were offended that a muslim kills 5 of our soldiers on american soil. Just pisses me off.

[Matt G]

Originally Posted by Lake Chuck Duck

These people, Ive seen more people all offended that a guy killed a lion on another continent than people that were offended that a muslim kills 5 of our soldiers on american soil. Just pisses me off.

Exactly!

[MathGeek]

It seems to me like the PH may have knowingly violated the law, but there has been no evidence to show that the American hunter knew his guide was setting up an illegal hunt.

Is an American angler breaking the law if he steps onto a guide's boat and the guide takes him to a spot that is in provate water and they are trespassing? I don't think so. There is a legal concept called mens rae.

Another example in American law would be a guide taking a customer to hunt waterfowl over a baited field. Should the customer be found guilty if the guide knew the field was baited but the customer was simply tricked by the guide?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

Customers trust their guides to keep them in compliance with the local laws.

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

It seems to me like the PH may have knowingly violated the law, but there has been no evidence to show that the American hunter knew his guide was setting up an illegal hunt.

Is an American angler breaking the law if he steps onto a guide's boat and the guide takes him to a spot that is in provate water and they are trespassing? I don't think so. There is a legal concept called mens rae.

Another example in American law would be a guide taking a customer to hunt waterfowl over a baited field. Should the customer be found guilty if the guide knew the field was baited but the customer was simply tricked by the guide?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

Customers trust their guides to keep them in compliance with the local laws.

I may be in the minority, but I feel at least that it is my responsibility to ask those questions. Does the PH have the necessary paperwork? Is there a quota? If he lies, then its the old "fool me once, shame on you" situation.

Maybe he did ask those things, I don't know. But again, Palmer's record speaks for itself. He has violated hunting laws in the past. Is that an indication that he knowingly did anything wrong here? No. But I believe he isn't going to get the benefit of the doubt like someone who has never broken a law before.

Also, if he killed a lion when there was no quota or limit, then yes, he did break the law, whether the PH deceived him or not. I'm sure there is a government agency that he could have checked with to determine if there were quotas for the given area. And again, maybe he did check that, and he was deceived. I'm not sure how the system works over there, but it would seem he could have found out some of this information.

Would you go on a sandhill crane hunt in Louisiana without first determining whether you could legally kill a sandhill crane in Louisiana? I wouldn't. If I just assumed because you can kill them in Texas that you can kill them in Louisiana, I would be wrong.

To me, its no different than buying something. You research it first before you buy it. If you still get screwed in the end, then at least you did your research and thought you were making a good purchase. There will always be deceiving people in the world. You just have to try and defend yourself against them.

[fishinpox]

Does anyone know they just cut the head off? That sounds like so non hunter explination . Surely they caped/ skinned the entire lion for a full body mount. Maybe they left the meat ? I would bet the trackers kept that meat . I watched my trackers fight over 2 day old organs / guts that sat in a bucket in the sun for 2 days prior so I highly doubt they just let it lay there. With that being said I'm leaning more and more to the animal was poached not hunted legally . Just not sure if hunter knew that going into it . You have to be a pretty big dumb arse to put up 55k for an illegal hunt when there are TONS of legal lion hunts available . Right now is one of the cheapest times to hunt a lion on private land because everyone is scared it will be banned . When I was there I could have shot one for 40k now the same hunt is 20k , my ph calls me 2 times a month trying to get me to come hunt a lion . African hunting is changing , between all the antis and all the game ranches I don't know what the future holds for hunting in Africa

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by fishinpox

Does anyone know they just cut the head off? That sounds like so non hunter explination . Surely they caped/ skinned the entire lion for a full body mount. Maybe they left the meat ? I would bet the trackers kept that meat . I watched my trackers fight over 2 day old organs / guts that sat in a bucket in the sun for 2 days prior so I highly doubt they just let it lay there. With that being said I'm leaning more and more to the animal was poached not hunted legally . Just not sure if hunter knew that going into it . You have to be a pretty big dumb arse to put up 55k for an illegal hunt when there are TONS of legal lion hunts available . Right now is one of the cheapest times to hunt a lion on private land because everyone is scared it will be banned . When I was there I could have shot one for 40k now the same hunt is 20k , my ph calls me 2 times a month trying to get me to come hunt a lion . African hunting is changing , between all the antis and all the game ranches I don't know what the future holds for hunting in Africa

Saw a report that it was skinned and the head removed but who knows if it's true. I think the guy thought it was a legit hunt. Either way his life is messed up for a while no matter if he was in the right or not.

[kcinnick]

Come to think of it, I have rarely hunted to eat, mostly nuisance hunting. I do have cool toys though and people think of me when it is time to eliminate some nuisance animals quietly or in high volume... all legal of course.

[southern151]

Originally Posted by kcinnick

Come to think of it, I have rarely hunted to eat, mostly nuisance hunting. I do have cool toys though and people think of me when it is time to eliminate some nuisance animals quietly or in high volume... all legal of course.

Quietly or in high volume! LOL!

Between you and Taylor, I'm sure there is plenty of stuff to eradicate mass amounts of hogs or yotes very quietly and rapidly!

[Goooh]

Over 2 hours with the fella that hunted the black rhino.

Well worth the listen if you've got the time. Rohan's perspectives are spot on here, while other points of views are sure to turn people off he has an unexpected understanding and passion for hunting.

Joe Rogan Experience #657 - Corey Knowlton - YouTube

Joe Rogan Experience #657 - Corey Knowlton - YouTube

You can also stream it on your podcasts app.

[AubreyLaHaye458]

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1438289414.358953.jpg

This one gets my vote


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[bjhooper82]

Originally Posted by AubreyLaHaye458

Attachment 92046

This one gets my vote


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Aubrey, where did you get that picture? It looks just like a mount that's in a buddy of my dads camp.