california bans lead bullets

[rainy_day]

It's starting if they can't get your guns they'll get your
Ammo
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ition/2969497/

[hawgsquatch]

We are fighting this hard. many deputy Sheriff's associations and the Game wardens association have protested the law because the technology does not exist to enforce it and there is no science behind it. This law was written to allegedly protect Condors......all fourteen of them.

[duckman1911]

Barnes bullets are fixing to be very popular in Cali. They make some great bullets but they arent cheap thats for sure.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by duckman1911

Barnes bullets are fixing to be very popular in Cali. They make some great bullets but they arent cheap thats for sure.

This is a bad law on many counts:

1. There just isn't the sound science to show that lead hunting bullets are a problem in most of California. Restricting hunting ammo in the whole state based on limited impacts sets a bad precedent.

2. Undoubtedly, other states will attempt to follow California's precedent to drive up shooting costs and reduce hunting effectiveness in other states.

3. Now that CA has banned lead in hunting ammunition, it will be more acceptable for them to impose a ban on lead in all firearms ammunition.

4. The lead-free ammunition that is currently available is less accurate, less aerodynamic, and offers less performance than lead based designs. The velocity window for reliable expansion is much narrower. Greater barrel friction reduces muzzle velocity at a given chamber pressure and lower BCs and higher expansion thresholds combine with increased wind drift to reduce effective range.

5. Prices of lead free ammunition are much higher, increasing not only hunting costs, but also increasing practice and preparation costs for hunters who wisely prefer to prepare and practice with their hunting ammunition.

6. There are some applications (like culling nuisance animals in urban or suburban areas) where government agencies and other professional culling agencies prefer or require subsonic ammunition. Lead free bullets that expand reliably at subsonic speeds are unavailable in most calibers.

Fortunately, the statewide ban on lead does not come into force until 2019, giving CA voters a few years to roll back this nonsense.

["W"]

Who cares what California does????? They are in a world of there own!!!

Broke , gay and now NO LEAD!!

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

This is a bad law on many counts:

1. There just isn't the sound science to show that lead hunting bullets are a problem in most of California. Restricting hunting ammo in the whole state based on limited impacts sets a bad precedent.

2. Undoubtedly, other states will attempt to follow California's precedent to drive up shooting costs and reduce hunting effectiveness in other states.

3. Now that CA has banned lead in hunting ammunition, it will be more acceptable for them to impose a ban on lead in all firearms ammunition.

4. The lead-free ammunition that is currently available is less accurate, less aerodynamic, and offers less performance than lead based designs. The velocity window for reliable expansion is much narrower. Greater barrel friction reduces muzzle velocity at a given chamber pressure and lower BCs and higher expansion thresholds combine with increased wind drift to reduce effective range.

5. Prices of lead free ammunition are much higher, increasing not only hunting costs, but also increasing practice and preparation costs for hunters who wisely prefer to prepare and practice with their hunting ammunition.

6. There are some applications (like culling nuisance animals in urban or suburban areas) where government agencies and other professional culling agencies prefer or require subsonic ammunition. Lead free bullets that expand reliably at subsonic speeds are unavailable in most calibers.

Fortunately, the statewide ban on lead does not come into force until 2019, giving CA voters a few years to roll back this nonsense.

I never said it was a good idea did I?

[Dogface]

Originally Posted by "W"

Who cares what California does????? They are in a world of there own!!!

Broke , gay and now NO LEAD!!

I agree but other states may follow.

[weedeater]

kill the condors or put them in a cage.... problem solved

[hawgsquatch]

Originally Posted by "W"

Who cares what California does????? They are in a world of there own!!!

Broke , gay and now NO LEAD!!

Damn near every social or gun control law in the country started here. We are the social experiment they use to see what the nation will tolerate and to condition more people to accept the tyranny in steps. If you don't stop it here it is coming to you in time. Gun confiscation, enforced tolerance, ideological reeducation, and persecution of religion, you are welcome.

[Dogface]

Originally Posted by hawgsquatch

Damn near every social or gun control law in the country started here. We are the social experiment they use to see what the nation will tolerate and to condition more people to accept the tyranny in steps. If you don't stop it here it is coming to you in time. Gun confiscation, enforced tolerance, ideological reeducation, and persecution of religion, you are welcome.

Well said!!!!!!

[jchief]

Originally Posted by hawgsquatch

Damn near every social or gun control law in the country started here. We are the social experiment they use to see what the nation will tolerate and to condition more people to accept the tyranny in steps. If you don't stop it here it is coming to you in time. Gun confiscation, enforced tolerance, ideological reeducation, and persecution of religion, you are welcome.

Exactly.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

["W"]

California has been doing the dumbest **** for years and I promise you will never see the south follow any of there leads or dumb *** laws


This is nothing new!! Hell you cant drill for oil off Cal, look how that worked out for us???

[mr crab]

Originally Posted by duckman1911

Barnes bullets are fixing to be very popular in Cali. They make some great bullets but they arent cheap thats for sure.

they are the best imo. agree on the price too...them jokers are proud of em ain't they

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by hawgsquatch

Damn near every social or gun control law in the country started here. We are the social experiment they use to see what the nation will tolerate and to condition more people to accept the tyranny in steps. If you don't stop it here it is coming to you in time. Gun confiscation, enforced tolerance, ideological reeducation, and persecution of religion, you are welcome.

All these things are happening in Colorado also.

[Bdub]

Blame the hipsters...no really....blame the hipsters.

[Duck Butter]

Not getting in this thread but just wanted to add

[mcjaredsandwich]

Originally Posted by Duck Butter

Not getting in this thread but just wanted to add

Improper use of ancient aliens meme

[Finfeatherfur]

I remember when the Feds banned lead shot in waterfowl hunting and the fiasco that followed. I also remeber their commericials with the sick ducks and geese holding their heads low and appearing sick. My question is this: Does any study or data exist where the feds or Cali scientist can show where lead bullets/shot kill or injure animals/birds who were not the targeted game? I can go out to any duck lease after the season opens and get video and pics of injured/sick waterfowl from wounds of steel shot. This is a targeted group and wounded birds will happen. The hawks have to eat too!

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by Finfeatherfur

I remember when the Feds banned lead shot in waterfowl hunting and the fiasco that followed. I also remeber their commericials with the sick ducks and geese holding their heads low and appearing sick. My question is this: Does any study or data exist where the feds or Cali scientist can show where lead bullets/shot kill or injure animals/birds who were not the targeted game? I can go out to any duck lease after the season opens and get video and pics of injured/sick waterfowl from wounds of steel shot. This is a targeted group and wounded birds will happen. The hawks have to eat too!

Catahoula Lake is a good/bad? example of lead poisoning that still occurs from the tons of lead shot that remain in the system. That stuff never goes away and there are numerous waterfowl that suffer from lead poisoning each year on Catahoula Lake and I am sure many other places, but this is the example I know. It is being studied currently. Maybe Lreynolds the state waterfowl biologist can chime in on this a little bit more, I see he is a member here and can provide actual numbers for it. There are alsways going to be animals wounded from hunters, but what is not 'good' is animals being wounded or killed 'indirectly' from lead shot. Imagine how much a box of shells weighs and think most of that is shot. Lets say 2 lbs of lead in a box of shot (no idea what the actual weight is but its probably higher than that), multiply that by the number of blinds on Catahoula Lake and the number of hunters in each blind and number of days in a season and then multiply that by say 50 years of even more and you end up with many many thousands of tons of lead sitting on the lake bed, all available for birds to pick up

As far as California condors and other birds of prey, yes there are studies out there particularly with golden eagles and lead ingestion.


plenty of literature out there on both and its just how you want to interpret it

editing out the rest, said I wasn't getting in this! haha

:inb4MGsaysdraconiansanctions

[Finfeatherfur]

Originally Posted by Duck Butter

Catahoula Lake is a good/bad? example of lead poisoning that still occurs from the tons of lead shot that remain in the system. That stuff never goes away and there are numerous waterfowl that suffer from lead poisoning each year on Catahoula Lake and I am sure many other places, but this is the example I know. It is being studied currently. Maybe Lreynolds the state waterfowl biologist can chime in on this a little bit more, I see he is a member here and can provide actual numbers for it. There are alsways going to be animals wounded from hunters, but what is not 'good' is animals being wounded or killed 'indirectly' from lead shot.

As far as California condors and other birds of prey, yes there are studies out there particularly with golden eagles and lead ingestion.


plenty of literature out there on both and its just how you want to interpret it

editing out the rest, said I wasn't getting in this! haha

:inb4MGsaysdraconiansanctions

Thanks for the imput. I also hope someone puts some of the details into the study specifics as well. For instance, I read an article last year about the California study where dead birds of prey were studied and found to have high doses of poision in their system. After several months of looking into it, it was found that the high need for rodent control in the area (food processing areas) were leading to bird deaths by the birds catching and consuming sick rodents which were targeted as a threat of disease to humans. So in a case like this what happens? Do we stop killing rodents to protect the birds which in return put a risk back to humans??? I know it's not the same, but I'm just curious as to the actual study dynamics of sick birds.

Regardless, interesting topic.