Browning rifles

[FF_T_Warren]

Originally Posted by Deadly D

Wait there I got a 7600 rem that is 26 yrs old and zeroed at 300 and I can shoot the bulls eye out of the paper.

I dont think you understand my post. first off I am saying to go with remington all the way, they are tried and true and great guns.
second, I think you are confused with the term keyholing. A bullet obviously should fly straight and stay in a spiral motion keeping it on target and flying correctly. Keyholing is when a bullet gets all wobbly in flight and when it hits the target, instead of punching right through it and leaving a perfect circle, it hits the target sideways and leaves the target with a "keyhole" shaped hole instead of the perfect circle. keyholing is a bad thing. basically with a gun that is doing that, itd never be accurate as a longer distance gun because the bullet isn't flying straight or consistent.
Keyholing may not be noticeable at 100yds but out past that you may start noticing it. And when someone had this problem browning basically told them Oh well, we will only guarantee it to 100 yards. Which is JUNK and I'd never buy one on that principle anyway. Not to mention look at what your military and law enforcements shoot. If they aren't shooting custom made guns, most are shooting Rem700 or at least guns with the rem700 action.

[wtretrievers]

Originally Posted by FF_T_Warren

I dont think you understand my post. first off I am saying to go with remington all the way, they are tried and true and great guns.
second, I think you are confused with the term keyholing. A bullet obviously should fly straight and stay in a spiral motion keeping it on target and flying correctly. Keyholing is when a bullet gets all wobbly in flight and when it hits the target, instead of punching right through it and leaving a perfect circle, it hits the target sideways and leaves the target with a "keyhole" shaped hole instead of the perfect circle. keyholing is a bad thing. basically with a gun that is doing that, itd never be accurate as a longer distance gun because the bullet isn't flying straight or consistent.
Keyholing may not be noticeable at 100yds but out past that you may start noticing it. And when someone had this problem browning basically told them Oh well, we will only guarantee it to 100 yards. Which is JUNK and I'd never buy one on that principle anyway. Not to mention look at what your military and law enforcements shoot. If they aren't shooting custom made guns, most are shooting Rem700 or at least guns with the rem700 action.

You tell me if you were a gun manufactor that you would warranty your gun that was keyholing at over 100 yards, BS! What kind of ammo is this guy using, reloads, reloads that are loaded to hot, factory? Whats the wind conditions while he's shooting? Is he shooting till barrel gets so hot you can't touch it? Who knows, alot goes into this. Some guns like "certain" ammo, certain brands, certain bullets & certain weights, I have Remingtons, Brownings, Winchesters, TC's, Rugers & they all like something different. I pretty much hunt with one standared bullet, Core Lokt, But that's hunting, If i'm punching dimes at 300 a core lokt aint gonna cut it out of 90% of my guns. Some people think that if they buy a $50 box of shell they're gun should shoot dot's at 300 yards, aint gonna happen! I can't blame a manufactor one bit, who knows what this yahoo is shooting. I got BAR's that will hang with some of the finest bolt actions made "if" I shoot the bullet it likes.

[FF_T_Warren]

Originally Posted by wtretrievers

You tell me if you were a gun manufactor that you would warranty your gun that was keyholing at over 100 yards, BS! What kind of ammo is this guy using, reloads, reloads that are loaded to hot, factory? Whats the wind conditions while he's shooting? Is he shooting till barrel gets so hot you can't touch it? Who knows, alot goes into this. Some guns like "certain" ammo, certain brands, certain bullets & certain weights, I have Remingtons, Brownings, Winchesters, TC's, Rugers & they all like something different. I pretty much hunt with one standared bullet, Core Lokt, But that's hunting, If i'm punching dimes at 300 a core lokt aint gonna cut it out of 90% of my guns. Some people think that if they buy a $50 box of shell they're gun should shoot dot's at 300 yards, aint gonna happen! I can't blame a manufactor one bit, who knows what this yahoo is shooting. I got BAR's that will hang with some of the finest bolt actions made "if" I shoot the bullet it likes.

I dont remember the exact post or exactly where I read it but I do believe the guy had tried several different bullet types, and as a reputable manufacturer I would at least offer to look into the problem if the guy had tried alternate rounds. Not just say Oh well, sorry.

[FF_T_Warren]

Heres the article. Only thing I see is that he should've maybe tried alternate brands. he did try several different grain rounds but all hornady. but still all in all browning should have at least looked into the issue. Cuz they lost a customer and that customer has put his experience out there and Im sure have affected the purchasing patterns of many more potential customers.

Oh and the people at browning told him they only guarantee their rifle to 2MOA at 100 yds.

Heres the article: http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/...hp?f=8&t=69585

[wtretrievers]

Originally Posted by FF_T_Warren

I dont remember the exact post or exactly where I read it but I do believe the guy had tried several different bullet types, and as a reputable manufacturer I would at least offer to look into the problem if the guy had tried alternate rounds. Not just say Oh well, sorry.

Yeah.......that's his version of the story, no telling what all went on between him & the factory rep either, He probably didn't like the answer & got .

I have a new Winchester SXR in a 300 wsm. I went thru several different boxes of different shells, shot a box of each before I found what it liked. I never dreamed it would shoot a 150gr core lokt in such a tight group at 200 yds. It blew the winchester ballistic tip, horanday st's & horanday preimums, federal preimums, vital shoks, etc.....out the water! Basically the cheapest bullet shot the best, who'd a thunk it! I was ready to throw the rifle in the garbage!

[Shwane]

I have the Browning A-Bolt in 7mm rem mag with the B.O.S.S which allows you to tune your rifle to the round you chose to use. Its black/synthetic topped with a Swarovski 5-30 x 50. Very clean rifle. Lightwweight and deadly accurate. Most Brownings come with adjustable triggers, which is nice. With a little bedding work and blue printing, Ive got this rifle at 1.25'' at 500 meters with hand loads. The only complaint is the muzzle pressure tends to turn people off at the range. It can be bad at times. Most def should have ear plugs at the range.
It's a great rifle.

[FF_T_Warren]

Originally Posted by Shwane

I have the Browning A-Bolt in 7mm rem mag with the B.O.S.S which allows you to tune your rifle to the round you chose to use. Its black/synthetic topped with a Swarovski 5-30 x 50. Very clean rifle. Lightwweight and deadly accurate. Most Brownings come with adjustable triggers, which is nice. With a little bedding work and blue printing, Ive got this rifle at 1.25'' at 500 meters with hand loads. The only complaint is the muzzle pressure tends to turn people off at the range. It can be bad at times. Most def should have ear plugs at the range.
It's a great rifle.

Ok hold up, are you saying that you have a hunting rifle(normal barrel) thats holding a 1.25" group at 500 yards or holding 1.25 MOA at 500. If you talking about 1.25" group at 500, I'd have to see that for myself cuz theres no way I believe that. thats .25MOA. Most sniper rifles wont hold that unless they've got that same work done to them and usually more. If you talking 1.25MOA then yea thats possible.

I just cant see that kind of accuracy coming from a non-heavy barrel, hunting rifle. I mean your putting a hunting rifle against guns that people pay $4000 for and getting the same results. I find that very hard to believe

[Shwane]

I find that very hard to believe

I get this alot. Its a fairly common practice. You dont have to pay 4k to get that MOA at 500 meters. Although it helps the mid level shooter to achieve this, its not necessary. I shot long guns for a living. A little work on a rifle, 500 bucks or so, consistent hand loads, breath control and trigger discipline, and of course, elevation, temperature, wind direction, go along way. Each shot let your barrel cool for a few minutes, use a bi-pod or bench rest, a little dope on your scope and there you have it. Usually before I've fired 20 rounds I can get this grouping. Not everyone can do it. Your right, your average white tail rifle factory trimmed doesnt stand a chance in hell, but with the above factors in play its absolutely possible and happens regularly.
Heres my set up:
I tuned my barrel which involves trying varying amounts of pressure against it at different points. Aka, shimming. I had it bluprinted, making all the parts that make up the action square and true to the bore. Had the trigger lightened up. You can get a factory Browning down to 18 ounces safley. A little experimenting with rounds and grains that work best. That's about it. It's not impossible.

Most sniper rifles wont hold that unless they've got that same work done to them and usually more

Milatary grade sniper rifles have a little more work done to them. All of the above plus cryo treatments to the barrels and hand lapping them also. A good sniper can make shot groups at 1150 meters that can be covered with your hand. Ive seen this first hand.

[FF_T_Warren]

Originally Posted by Shwane

I get this alot. Its a fairly common practice. You dont have to pay 4k to get that MOA at 500 meters. Although it helps the mid level shooter to achieve this, its not necessary. I shot long guns for a living. A little work on a rifle, 500 bucks or so, consistent hand loads, breath control and trigger discipline, and of course, elevation, temperature, wind direction, go along way. Each shot let your barrel cool for a few minutes, use a bi-pod or bench rest, a little dope on your scope and there you have it. Usually before I've fired 20 rounds I can get this grouping. Not everyone can do it. Your right, your average white tail rifle factory trimmed doesnt stand a chance in hell, but with the above factors in play its absolutely possible and happens regularly.
Heres my set up:
I tuned my barrel which involves trying varying amounts of pressure against it at different points. Aka, shimming. I had it bluprinted, making all the parts that make up the action square and true to the bore. Had the trigger lightened up. You can get a factory Browning down to 18 ounces safley. A little experimenting with rounds and grains that work best. That's about it. It's not impossible.



Milatary grade sniper rifles have a little more work done to them. All of the above plus cryo treatments to the barrels and hand lapping them also. A good sniper can make shot groups at 1150 meters that can be covered with your hand. Ive seen this first hand.

thats news to me. I know the good rifles you talking about with the hand covering, but I've never heard of hunting rifles shooting how yours is. but hey Im still young and havent learned everything and still very new to LR shooting