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General Discussion (Everything Else) Discuss anything that doesn't belong in any other forums here. |
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#21
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Many of these bullets point can be applied to the "Show me the Money" rule.... find out who his action benefited (almost always going to be a "megacorporation" think "monsanto, tyson, etc etc " Now.... let me lay this on you. What if O'drama is in power because he represents an ideal person to "blame" for all the changes that are happening in america? You would be hard pressed to find a more suitable scapegoat for middle class america to blame for the continued lessening of what america once was. Please don't misunderstand me... I hate him as well... but your kidding yourself if you think he has achieved all this without help from both sides of the aisle as well as huge money backing it. Just saying. |
#22
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MG, I was taught at home my whole life and in what seems to be a similar way to what you are doing with your kids. Kudos! I really respect the sacrifices that I know you and your wife must make for the benefit of your kids.
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#23
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I think Jesus summed it all up for us when he gave us the two great commandments:
1. Love the Lord your God with all Heart, Soul, and Strength. 2. Love your neighbor as you love yourself. As Christians we can only show the love of Christ through action and deed to our neighbor. The problem with this country and this world is that there are too many fan's with too few followers. If we start working on ourself the world and our surroundings would be much better off. |
#24
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Now there is certainly a lot of problems with current drug laws and their enforcement. Among these: Most federal drug laws are an overreach of federal power far beyond congressional authority to regulate interstate commerce. In most cases, drug laws should be a purely state issue. Laws allowing agencies to confiscate property before anyone is convicted of a crime perpetuate and encourage bad behavior on the part of government officials. The US Constitution is the supreme law if the land, and government employees who violate it should face stiffer penalties (as corrupt officials) than the alleged offenders who they are purportedly trying to catch. My case that drugs should remain illegal is framed around three basic ideas: 1. Many recreational drugs do harm that goes far beyond the individual user and greatly increase the likelihood that the individual user will become an undue burden on his employer, his family, his insurers, his landlord, his creditors, other associations (school, sports, religious), and society as a whole. Making and enforcing effective laws against driving under the influence is a particular challenge. 2. Laws train the conscience of young people, and many teenagers approach adulthood with the notion that if an act is truly wrong or dangerous, then it is against the law. Once legalized, there will be many more users both because the conscience will more easily accept it, and because it is simply more widely available. 3. As a practical matter, substances that are legal for adults are much more easily acquired by minors. Laws against alcohol and nicotine use by minors are very rarely enforced, and I would hate for those providing marijuana to children to face no more penalty or effective enforcement than those providing cigarettes. In a libertarian utopia where insurers, fathers, sports teams, schools, employers, and other interested parties could contractually insist on drug testing and there would remain criminal penalties for fraud or theft by deception for lying/cheating on drug tests, a society might still maintain sufficient safeguards. But merely legalizing recreational drugs in the current nanny state where many insurers, employers, traffic enforcement, and other parties which have interests in limiting exposure to drug users cannot fully protect their interests is a likely disaster. I remember a high school principal once almost fired me (as a math teacher working in the school) because I overheard students in class talking about their weekend drug use, told their parents, and suggested their parents use widely available at home drug tests to monitor and bring correction to their children's behavior. I am confident I would have been fired had I not resigned first. 80% of the seniors at this high school were regular recreational drug users. The school resource officer, the principal, the school nurse, and most of the teachers either did not care, or had been manipulated into not acting by their desire for a paycheck. Effectively teaching math, physics, and chemistry was impossible. Any path to drug legalization certainly needs to empower any and all associates of possible drug users (parents, schools, sports teams, employers, coaches, traffic enforcement, insurers, etc.) to implement effective drug testing programs (if they choose) as a condition of ongoing association. I would certainly want my daughter's prom date to pee in a cup before allowing my daughter to ride in his car! I would also want our military to retain the power to restrict drugs under the UCMJ. I am curious if your view of libertarian ideals would grant all associates of possible drug users the rights to choose and limit their associations (if they wished) by insisting on drug testing as a condition of association. After all, what justification is there in limiting civil contracts not to permit drug testing under any relationship where one of the parties feels it may be necessary or desirable? |
#25
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pretty good argument there. You raised some very valid concerns that I have not thought of.
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#26
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I'm opposed to legalization, but I think comparing marijuana to child prostitution hurts your argument.
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#27
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I have to run out for a bit tonight. But in a quick comment i will say that those are the same arguments used to promote prohibition.
Will discuss further either later tonight or when i have a chance to get back on the computer. |
#28
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Discussion after this moved to Libertarian view on drugs.
Before addressing some of the things below, I want to clarify a bit. When i referred to "legalization" I am speaking of drugs which are considered to be "Soft" i.e. Alcohol, Nicotine, Cannabis / Weed / MJ etc, Mushrooms and like. So now we can proceed. Quote:
To be blunt here MG, there is no comparison between shoplifting, child prostitution, legalized murder or any other violent crime / crime against another person that you care to use as an example.... if you ask why? its because "soft" drug use is a personal decision that can be made by an adult and does not in and of itself cause any harm what so ever to anyone else. Every other example listed involves one human either physically or monetarily harming another. Quote:
Although the current AG has proposed sweeping reforms to how non violent drug offense crimes are handled (by seemingly fast tracking them into treatment programs rather as an alternative to jails) I am viewing these actions as a stopgap attempt to continue the "war" on drugs, and just changing from prison punishment to one where drug counseling programs will be the new benefactors of a massive federal cash infusion. It will kind of make for a somewhat "perfect" storm ... drug war and it's associated cost's will get to continue, and the drug counseling programs will get a huge present under the tree this christmas. If this goes thru expect to start seeing a lot of commercials for "compassionate care for your loved one's suffering from addiction." Quote:
The making and enforcing of laws to cover vehicle use, while under the influence have already been done. Therefore they are no longer a challange, IMO it's very similar to Alcohol. You administer a field sobriety test, if the person fails said test they are then required to submit to a drug test to determine THC levels in their sample. Case closed, book 'em Danno. On subject #2: Again the exact opposite of what your stating has been scientifically studied and proven in test bed countries like Portugal and the Netherlands, as well as many many studies here in the states. The Netherlands experienced a static level of drug use after legalization of "soft" drugs. After removing the increase in drug use seem by drug tourism. They actually saw a significant reduction in drug use of the local population. Portugal decriminalized and has not even gone so far as to begin regulation. And they have shown a significant downturn in all (not just soft) drug use. Incidentally HIV infections due to infected needle sharing have all but disappeared. on Subject #3: Study has shown that making a drug illegal has at best no impact on teenagers desire and ability to obtain the drug. In point of fact most studies show that teenagers tend to rebel rather than conform. I have to ask you here MG, If you are the guardian of a teenager who is choosing to rebel without your permission. Would you prefer that said teen purchase their weed in a enviroment that's controlled and regulated to ensure safety. Or would you prefer that said teen purchase the drug in the "Black Market / Gang Underworld" as they do now. If you feel that the second option is the better of the two, please in detail explain to me how you feel that it would be the better option. If it's a case of an "adult" straw purchasing the drug for the minor, please answer the same question in regards to whats more beneficial (legal purchase vs black market) Quote:
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I jest a little, but really. The sky will most certainly not fall and everyone will most probably not go completely slap insane if soft drugs are all legalized. Quote:
I do certainly espouse some "libertarian ideals" But i have learned my lessons well in life, and i do know this. What's right is right, And you should always "Aim small, Miss small" (ie Aim for the stars, when you make it to the moon it won't be a dissapointment) |
#29
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Ace, do you currently smoke weed?
I really don't care one way or the other, just wondering since you seem to support it. |
#30
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Swamp believe it or not i don't touch the stuff. I did try it during my younger days and quickly realized that the only effect it really had on me was to make me hungry (when i reconciled that fact with already being a lard *** i realized it would not be a good thing for me)
I was fortunate in my younger years that a close friend who did smoke was the person who purchased the product and shared it with me. I say i was fortunate because if i had been exposed to a dealer pushing other products.... Well i have always had an addictive personality(have been hooked on copenhagen, cigs, and alcohol to some extent in my younger days) so i wouldn't be surprised if i would have ended up as a statistic if I had tried worse drugs. I am however very very intolerant of some of the sideshow's that the government has made of these issues. What could we achieve as a country if all we did was stop this rediculous war on drugs and restarted the hemp industry. We could have a country like most euro zone countries where good solid healthcare was free and considered to be a basic human right. We would have a country where incredible sums of money could be shoved into strong infrastructure growth programs, thereby insuring quality standards of living for our children, rather than the current path to a third world country status. Sadly the could would probably not happen.. the money will simply line to pockets & bank accounts of people who already have so much of it that they no longer have a use for it. |
#31
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Some interesting facts on hemp...this is my favorite one.
14. Henry Ford’s first Model-T was built to run on hemp gasoline and the car itself was constructed from hemp! On his large estate, Ford was photographed among his hemp fields. The car, ‘grown from the soil,’ had hemp plastic panels whose impact strength was 10 times stronger than steel. (Popular Mechanics, 1941.) http://listverse.com/2009/04/15/15-f...ts-about-hemp/ |
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