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toodeep · #1 02-21-2013, 03:16 PM

this was passed and is in place and happening across the US.

http://redflagnews.com/headlines/disarming-americas-heros-veterans-receiving-official-letters-prohibiting-them-from-purchasing-possessing-receiving-or-transporting-a-firearm-or-ammunition

Duck Butter · #2 02-21-2013, 04:08 PM

Not saying I agree with this, but I was Army National Guard and active duty overseas for a year, and I would say that about 15% of the people I deployed with should never ever ever handle a firearm

. If someone is diagnosed as crazy (veteran or not), I don't have a problem with it. I think we would all agree that there should be background checks and not allow people with a history of mental illness to purchase certain weapons. This piece doesn't really say much, it lacks some serious information.

saodma · #3 02-21-2013, 04:16 PM

Think about this. 100% of combat vets have PTSD. 30 to 40% percent of suport forces will have PTSD. Up to 75% of your police, fire and EMS have PTSD. These are all mental ilnesses.

Duck Butter · #4 02-21-2013, 04:31 PM

The article didn't say much at all and it didn't say that everyone with PTSD will be denied a firearm. It didn't link one specific instance where this has happened and it also didn't say which kinds of firearms, it mentioned something about the Brady Handgun Bill, so maybe they can't own a handgun

There are different levels of PTSD. Anyone that has been in a bad car wreck or witnessed something bad could likely have some level of PTSD.

swamp snorkler · #5 02-21-2013, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toodeep

this was passed and is in place and happening across the US.

http://redflagnews.com/headlines/disarming-americas-heros-veterans-receiving-official-letters-prohibiting-them-from-purchasing-possessing-receiving-or-transporting-a-firearm-or-ammunition

How bout you copy and paste that article since it is blocked at work?

Duck Butter · #6 02-21-2013, 05:03 PM

Written By Constitutional Attorney Michael Connelly, J.D.

How would you feel if you received a letter from the U.S. Government informing you that because of a physical or mental condition that the government says you have it is proposing to rule that you are incompetent to handle your own financial affairs? Suppose that letter also stated that the government is going to appoint a stranger to handle your affairs for you at your expense? That would certainly be scary enough but it gets worse.
What if that letter also stated: “A determination of incompetency will prohibit you from purchasing, possessing, receiving, or transporting a firearm or ammunition. If you knowingly violate any of these prohibitions, you may be fined, imprisoned, or both pursuant to the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, Pub.L.No. 103-159, as implemented at 18, United States Code 924(a)(2).”?
That makes is sound like something right from a documentary on a tyrannical dictatorship somewhere in the world. Yet, as I write this I have a copy of such a letter right in front of me. It is being sent by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs to hundreds, perhaps thousands, of America’s heroes. In my capacity as Executive Director of the United States Justice Foundation (USJF) I have been contacted by some of these veterans and the stories I am getting are appalling.
The letter provides no specifics on the reasons for the proposed finding of incompetency; just that is based on a determination by someone in the VA. In every state in the United States no one can be declared incompetent to administer their own affairs without due process of law and that usually requires a judicial hearing with evidence being offered to prove to a judge that the person is indeed incompetent. This is a requirement of the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that states that no person shall “… be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law…”.
Obviously, the Department of Veterans Affairs can’t be bothered by such impediments as the Constitution, particularly since they are clearly pushing to fulfill one of Obama’s main goals, the disarming of the American people. Janet Napolitano has already warned law enforcement that some of the most dangerous among us are America’s heroes, our veterans, and now according to this letter from the VA they can be prohibited from buying or even possessing a firearm because of a physical or mental disability.
Think about it, the men and women who have laid their lives on the line to defend us and our Constitution are now having their own Constitutional rights denied. There are no clear criteria for the VA to declare a veteran incompetent. It can be the loss of a limb in combat, a head injury, a diagnosis of PTSD, or even a soldier just telling someone at the VA that he or she is depressed over the loss of a buddy in combat. In none of these situations has the person been found to be a danger to themselves or others. If that was the case than all of the Americans who have suffered from PTSD following the loss of a loved one or from being in a car accident would also have to be disqualified from owning firearms. It would also mean that everyone who has ever been depressed for any reason should be disarmed. In fact, many of the veterans being deprived of their rights have no idea why it is happening.
The answer seems to be it is simply because they are veterans. At the USJF we intend to find the truth by filing a Freedom of Information Act request to the Department of Veterans Affairs to force them to disclose the criteria they are using to place veterans on the background check list that keeps them from exercising their Second Amendment rights. Then we will take whatever legal steps are necessary to protect our American warriors.
The reality is that Obama will not get all of the gun control measures he wants through Congress, and they wouldn’t be enough for him anyway. He wants a totally disarmed America so there will be no resistance to his plans to rob us of our nation. That means we have to ask who will be next. If you are receiving a Social Security check will you get one of these letters? Will the government declare that you are incompetent because of your age and therefore banned from firearm ownership. It certainly fits in with the philosophy and plans of the Obama administration. It is also certain that our military veterans don’t deserve this and neither do any other Americans.

-- Michael Connelly, J.D.
Executive Director, United States Justice Foundation

Gerald · #7 02-21-2013, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toodeep

this was passed and is in place and happening across the US.

http://redflagnews.com/headlines/dis...-or-ammunition

Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act......Was passed back in 1994 and signed by Bill Clinton.

Duck Butter · #8 02-21-2013, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swamp snorkler

How bout you copy and paste that article since it is blocked at work?

I posted it, but in a nutshell some guy who is the Executive Director of the United States Justice Foundation (whatever that is) wrote an article about how veterans RIGHT NOW are being denied ownership of guns but never cites a specific instance, but does say that 100s of veterans have been receiving letters stating this:

“A determination of incompetency will prohibit you from purchasing, possessing, receiving, or transporting a firearm or ammunition. If you knowingly violate any of these prohibitions, you may be fined, imprisoned, or both pursuant to the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act"

Which basically just says that IF 'they' find you incompetent, not that anyone WAS found incompetent, you can be denied a firearm but again never cites an instance where this has happened and then a long dragged out opinion piece about the the usual things that chain emails do to get people riled up: they talk about Janet Napolitano and how she is going to disarm ALL Americans, Obama, the 2nd Amendement, the usual stuff, etc

bmac · #9 02-21-2013, 05:31 PM

There is already a stigma associated with any sort of mental illness, even something as common as depression. Now the possibility that it could affect your right to own a weapon? This is a huge step back for mental health service IMO. Guarantee you I would be hesitant to seek treatment if it could come back to haunt me.

duck enticer · #10 02-21-2013, 06:00 PM

The letter said this Vet can't handle his VA Benefit check. That is why he is being checked for incompetence. No one has any idea what precipitated this letter. The guy might be totally mentally incapacitated or he might not. If he can't handle his finances something is obviously wrong......To say this is conclusive proof that Obama wants to steal our weapons is good ol contrived conspiracy theory in my mind.....Meanwhile the gun companies are getting richer.

MathGeek · #11 02-21-2013, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duck Butter

Not saying I agree with this, but I was Army National Guard and active duty overseas for a year, and I would say that about 15% of the people I deployed with should never ever ever handle a firearm

. If someone is diagnosed as crazy (veteran or not), I don't have a problem with it. I think we would all agree that there should be background checks and not allow people with a history of mental illness to purchase certain weapons. This piece doesn't really say much, it lacks some serious information.

Current law is that those who have been adjudicated as mentally incompetent may not own or possess firearms. This means that the status of mentally incompetent must be decided by a court and the person facing designation as mentally incompetent (thus losing many rights and autonomy) must have representation and the ability to present evidence on his own behalf.

Anything less is a dangerous practice fraught with peril. Remember that we have the right not to be deprived of life, liberty or property except by due process of law. The adjudication process meets this definition. Designation by a doctor or other medical professional is not due process.

Determinations made by a doctor, maybe even a doctor who has not even seen the person in question, should not have the power to restrict any right regarding life, liberty, or property. Opinions of doctors on the government payroll should be especially suspect.

Remember that all sorts of things are classified as mental health issues now: drinking, drugs, sexual addictions, depression. Does everyone who has ever had an antidepressant prescribed have a "mental health history" worthy of firearms prohibition?

flounder_smacker · #12 02-21-2013, 06:55 PM

so who decides what "normal" is?

longcast · #13 02-21-2013, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flounder_smacker

so who decides what "normal" is?

Exactly. The gov has zero business determining who can and can't own a firearm. Shall not be infringed.

southern151 · #14 02-21-2013, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longcast

Exactly. The gov has zero business determining who can and can't own a firearm. Shall not be infringed.

But, then we have what has our rights in question showing up repeatedly.

We should be able to "fix" or detain the mentally irrational. PC won't allow that today though.

SULPHITE · #15 02-21-2013, 08:52 PM

So basically the only thing the idiots can think of is barring us of rights to bear arms...which brings in the potential for tyranny...

southern151 · #16 02-21-2013, 09:00 PM

They'll do it so softly over the generations that we'll never feel a thing. Think about it...they already suspend kids for Lego pistols and imaginary hand grenades. That makes guns "yucky."

Goooh · #17 02-21-2013, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southern151

They'll do it so softly over the generations that we'll never feel a thing. Think about it...they already suspend kids for Lego pistols and imaginary hand grenades. That makes guns "yucky."

^^^nailed it^^^

They will make us register, then those that are grandfathered in and own banned guns will not e allowed to hand then down or donate them, a couple generations later they will be handed over by the kids that think they are yucky just like inheritance taxes and everything else.