Thoughts on CCA meeting tonight on state of Calcasieu fishery

[Reggoh]

Originally Posted by jchief

Article about the meeting

http://www.louisianasportsman.com/details.php?id=6849

This must have been the guy sitting in front of me... He had a voice recorder and taped the whole meeting. He also took a lot of notes.

[redchaserron]

Originally Posted by Tjethro85

What about when the salinity behind the weir is higher than In the lake and they won't open them because it hasn't rained?

I watch the guage data that is available pretty faithfully because I really like fishing the marsh behind the weirs, and have to say it's been very rare that I've seen the circumstance you describe. Not to say it never happens but it's not a very regular occurance. There are however other factors than just salinity that go into the decisions on operation of the weirs. Do I think the weirs are operated "prefectly"? No, but I think a good faith effort is made to follow the management plan.

[Reggoh]

Originally Posted by jchief

CCA Executive Director David Cresson said he had not heard of the rocking of the Washout area until last night and he was going to bring it to some Governor's committee.

As much as it has been talked about here, you would think that he would of heard of it from some of the LC Board members before last night.

His comment kind of faded out at the end but what he actually said was that he had not heard of rocking the washout area until the meeting was organized in the last few weeks.

The "organized in the last few weeks" comment was muffled when he spoke it.

This is an interesting thing though. Maybe the best thing that will come out of this meeting will be some type of action from CCA on this matter.
I am certainly going to do my best to start attending their meetings (even if I have to join) to start bringing some of these issues in front of them on a regular basis.

To be perfectly honest, I probably fish less than 10 times per year but I am concerned about the future of all of our natural resources. I want my kids and grandkids to remember why this place is called Sportsman's Paradise. I'd hate to stand idly by and watch these resources deteriorate when I could have done something about it. I don't know if my voice will be heard but at least I'm trying to take a stand on it.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by jchief

Is this the only law on oysters on Calcasieu?

No, these are some special rules out in place in 2010 or 2011. All the other LDWF and DHH rules apply also.

[jchief]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

No, these are some special rules out in place in 2010 or 2011. All the other LDWF and DHH rules apply also.

That is what I meant. Didn't phrase properly

[jchief]

Also, if you have a FB account, see about joining the LC CCA chapter. I just posted asking them to post meeting dates, times and locations.

Gotta get involved to try and make some changes.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1112.../?notif_t=like

[I make oil]

Look at the Atchafalaya Delta area. All of the islands there where created from dredge spoil. What is the problem with doing the same thing over there?

[MathGeek]

It's time to discuss some potential action items and ask for people to step up as volunteers to support what could be a successful grassroots effort toward bringing positive change (or at least slow down negative changes). Here is one way of organizing efforts:

Oyster Reef Restoration and Protection

Science: MathGeek and FishGeek continue to acquire necessary funding, make data requests, analyze data and distribute results, plan and execute 2015 study, etc.

Documentation of dredging and regulatory non-compliance: Guides, West Cove Anglers

Bring good cameras and start taking pictures.

Advocacy: It's generally considered bad form for the scientists on a project to have too big a role in related advocacy issues. We need someone to step up and take ownership of advocating for change with the LWFC and the legislature over direct oyster management issues. The same or a different person might handle interfacing with the press and with HHS. I think I can take the lead in advocating the removal of limits on black drum to reduce predation pressure. I am also willing to help draft and edit letters to various parties, provide data summaries and talking points, and be some scientific muscle behind the angler advocacy.

Weir Management

Science: Smalls and MathGeek - request data on historical openings and closings (via CCA first, then CPRA directly), compare historical openings and closings with management plan and documented salinity, tides, water levels to quantify track record of compliance/non-compliance and prepare report for distribution. Smalls, can you volunteer some of that time and talent to collaborate with me on this? I already have a letter to CCA drafted asking them to request the data.

Field Reports: We expect possible challenges in obtaining reliable data on historical openings. We would like guides and anglers to support our analysis by providing reliable reports of observed openings and closings including: date, time, location, observed gates open, observed gates closed, observed flow conditions (no flow, inward flow, outward flow, flow speed estimate in ft/s from observing floating debris and distance covered in 10 seconds). Once we have a few hundred days of accurate field reports, we can compare actual activity with the management plan. If Smalls is willing to work with me, we can develop a standardized form to assist guides and anglers in reporting gate openings and closures. A show of hands on who is willing to observe and submit regular field reports would be very helpful.

Erosion and Channel Dredging

Need a couple of people to step up and take a leadership role here. Some reasonable goals are to advocate for spoils from dredging to be used to rebuild a land barrier on the E side of ship channel to separate lower lake from ship channel and to rock the border between lower channel and land to prevent spoils from re-entering the channel.

CCA/S.T.A.R. Boycott

Bucking seems to have the lead on this. We need some other volunteers to develop and execute a plan for extending the boycott to businesses and sponsors next year, and consider how we might help the boycott get more traction in SE Louisiana.

Return to Science and Data Driven Fisheries Management

Needs some core leaders/organizers

This is a grassroots effort that needs to include a healthy contribution from all parties writing letters to LWC members, CCA, and state representatives. Attending CCA meetings and LWC meetings will also be useful. Important talking points are lack of public stock assessment data, unscientific tripletail regs (based on Mississippi life history data with no LA life history or stock assessment), unscientific reduction in speck limit in Calcasieu in 2005, unscientific black drum limit, mistake (since corrected) imposing restrictive largemouth bass limits in Atchafalaya Basin, temptations at knee jerk impositions of additional restrictions on redfish and spotted seatrout.

We can always discuss talking points on SC the day or two before important meetings.

Short term goals should be removing limit on black drum and return of SWLA speck limits to 25 per day. Long term goal is open, science based, data driven management.

Let's get some people volunteering, and then maybe we can develop more concrete strategies at the tourney.

[BuckingFastard]

return to science is KEY!!

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by BuckingFastard

return to science is KEY!!

Agreed. All the other action items are natural consequences of the desire for science based management.

["W"]

With the WL&F running the oyster show it will be over with in about 2 years when we have zero left in west cove

But I'm sure they will just close WC and open the east side up again



Unless they are just to money hungry blind to see oyster dredging is the #1 problem

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Weir Management

Science: Smalls and MathGeek - request data on historical openings and closings (via CCA first, then CPRA directly), compare historical openings and closings with management plan and documented salinity, tides, water levels to quantify track record of compliance/non-compliance and prepare report for distribution. Smalls, can you volunteer some of that time and talent to collaborate with me on this? I already have a letter to CCA drafted asking them to request the data.

Field Reports: We expect possible challenges in obtaining reliable data on historical openings. We would like guides and anglers to support our analysis by providing reliable reports of observed openings and closings including: date, time, location, observed gates open, observed gates closed, observed flow conditions (no flow, inward flow, outward flow, flow speed estimate in ft/s from observing floating debris and distance covered in 10 seconds). Once we have a few hundred days of accurate field reports, we can compare actual activity with the management plan. If Smalls is willing to work with me, we can develop a standardized form to assist guides and anglers in reporting gate openings and closures. A show of hands on who is willing to observe and submit regular field reports would be very helpful.

I'd be happy to help as much as I can in a technical capacity.

First let me say this though: you are going to have a hard time getting all of that information out of CPRA, because I seriously doubt that they have it. CPRA took over operations of the weirs in 2012, and Leanne presented all of the data on the openings since CPRA took over that role.

Prior to 2012, USFWS had the responsibility for operating the weirs. I believe LDWF may have even been a part of the operations at one point. There is some data on the openings in the report I'm sending you.

Basically, I'm not sure if petitioning CPRA is going to get all the information you want, because I don't think they have it. You may have to get it in bits and pieces from CPRA and USFWS, if USFWS has maintained thorough records of that information.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Smalls

I'd be happy to help as much as I can in a technical capacity.

First let me say this though: you are going to have a hard time getting all of that information out of CPRA, because I seriously doubt that they have it. CPRA took over operations of the weirs in 2012, and Leanne presented all of the data on the openings since CPRA took over that role.

Prior to 2012, USFWS had the responsibility for operating the weirs. I believe LDWF may have even been a part of the operations at one point. There is some data on the openings in the report I'm sending you.

Basically, I'm not sure if petitioning CPRA is going to get all the information you want, because I don't think they have it. You may have to get it in bits and pieces from CPRA and USFWS, if USFWS has maintained thorough records of that information.

Data since 2012 is much better than nothing.

[fishwater]

How can we start an orginazation just for the calcasieu lake estuary. I know nothign about somthign like that but it seems that we the fishermen are really the only ones that are worried about changing the lake, and the current conservation organization are not helping to much. Or even just a group to try and start getting the word about the oystering that is goign to eventually kill the lake. Like someone i was talking to said most of the guys that are oystering the lake dont care about it disappearing and will not listen to anyone on the subject. It seems like it is goign to take a major group to make a change and get it through the house to pass a bill.

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by fishwater

How can we start an orginazation just for the calcasieu lake estuary. I know nothign about somthign like that but it seems that we the fishermen are really the only ones that are worried about changing the lake, and the current conservation organization are not helping to much. Or even just a group to try and start getting the word about the oystering that is goign to eventually kill the lake. Like someone i was talking to said most of the guys that are oystering the lake dont care about it disappearing and will not listen to anyone on the subject. It seems like it is goign to take a major group to make a change and get it through the house to pass a bill.

Same could be said for many of the fishermen that fight to keep the weirs open 24/7, 365. They claim the weirs are choking off the life-blood of the lake, when the marsh itself is the life-blood. The data presented last night clearly showed an increase in open water and more saline conditions when the weirs were not in place, or not being operated. Whether you agree or understand that there are inherent differences between a fresh and salt marsh is irrelevant, but there is a BIG difference between marsh and open water.

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Data since 2012 is much better than nothing.

If Chuck posts those presentations, that data should be available shortly.

[jchief]

Originally Posted by fishwater

How can we start an orginazation just for the calcasieu lake estuary. I know nothign about somthign like that but it seems that we the fishermen are really the only ones that are worried about changing the lake, and the current conservation organization are not helping to much. Or even just a group to try and start getting the word about the oystering that is goign to eventually kill the lake. Like someone i was talking to said most of the guys that are oystering the lake dont care about it disappearing and will not listen to anyone on the subject. It seems like it is goign to take a major group to make a change and get it through the house to pass a bill.

Why don't we start flooding the LC CCA meetings and asking questions there. This is what this organization is supposed to be there for. If that don't work, then make a move to form another organization. Before the legislative session and the STAR kicks off.

And if they ignore us, then we really have a lot to holler about and will probably have more people listen to us.

[Reggoh]

Originally Posted by Smalls

Same could be said for many of the fishermen that fight to keep the weirs open 24/7, 365. They claim the weirs are choking off the life-blood of the lake, when the marsh itself is the life-blood. The data presented last night clearly showed an increase in open water and more saline conditions when the weirs were not in place, or not being operated. Whether you agree or understand that there are inherent differences between a fresh and salt marsh is irrelevant, but there is a BIG difference between marsh and open water.

I didn't realize that there was so much full time flow between the lake and the marsh through the fish slots and lower gates being opened on moon cycles. If you are only concerned with access to the marsh and the boat bay is closed, you would say the weirs are closed all the time... when in essence the shrimp, fish, and crabs can travel back and forth in the provided slots.

Is water flow being restricted? Sure... but to say the weirs are totally choking off the lake of bait is just not true.

[Reggoh]

Originally Posted by jchief

Why don't we start flooding the LC CCA meetings and asking questions there. This is what this organization is supposed to be there for. If that don't work, then make a move to form another organization. Before the legislative session and the STAR kicks off.

And if they ignore us, then we really have a lot to holler about and will probably have more people listen to us.

I think this is the best approach... if you use science and logic these people ultimately want what we all want. A healthy fishing estuary.

They NEED to have people that know this lake as well as the guides and local fishermen to help advise them on important issues. This doesn't mean everything suggested on this site is viable but that's why you have to back it up with science and data. To find out... maybe some of these ideas are great and will eventually get implemented. But if the director of CCA just recently heard about rocking the ship channel on the south end, then apparently our voices have not been loud enough within their organization.

Like them or hate them, CCA is already in place and has a lot of pull with the Commission and Legislature. I believe that going through them is the fastest way to achieve results.

I also believe the boycotting thing is an ok idea but I would go the opposite way... INFILTRATE their organization with like minded people and eventually you will have those people in positions of power to make the desired changes. You can't just sit on the computer and complain.... you have to get active with them and force your will.

[T-TOP]

Originally Posted by jchief

Why don't we start flooding the LC CCA meetings and asking questions there. This is what this organization is supposed to be there for. If that don't work, then make a move to form another organization. Before the legislative session and the STAR kicks off.



And if they ignore us, then we really have a lot to holler about and will probably have more people listen to us.

Agreed


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