Salinity Control Structures

[Smalls]

***Alright, taking a chance that this doesn't get ugly and end up in the Gill Net.***


I know a lot of people on here have their opinions of the management of the weirs and how they affect the fisheries on Calcasieu Lake. What does everyone think of the proposed Salinity Control Structures at Calcasieu Pass in the Coastal Master Plan? This would drop salinities in the system significantly, which means most of the saltwater fisheries present (specks, reds) will most likely move out of the system because it will be too fresh.

Bear in mind, this system was virtually fresh 100 years ago. Cypress trees grew in Turner's Bay and Prien Lake, and only southern Calcasieu lake was viewed as MARGINAL oyster habitat.

So, let's try and keep it clean fellas, I'd like to see this stay here so everyone can have continued input. It's no fun when everything ends up in the Gill Net.

[cmcnabb]

I don't keep up with that kind of stuff, but I would rather see it stay fresh. I have a biased opinion though because I would much rather see fresher marsh with better duck habitat than good trout fishing

[BaseballFisherman]

Originally Posted by cmcnabb

I don't keep up with that kind of stuff, but I would rather see it stay fresh. I have a biased opinion though because I would much rather see fresher marsh with better duck habitat than good trout fishing

Come on dude. I expect better than that from you. I like catching trout. I'd hate to see the lake turn into freshwater.

[cmcnabb]

You like trout fishing like I like to hunt ducks. I don't mind fishing, but it just don't do for me what hunting ducks and geese does. I'm not saying I want the ecosystem destroyed, just fresher. Saltwater destroys marsh IMO and makes it good for fishing and that's it. Sabine reserve is a prime example. Before Rita, we caught bass in the canals and the duck hunting was great. After Rita the crabbing and shrimping was great, but the duck hunting wasn't what it was due to lack of food. You could kill in certain spots, but it just didn't hold ducks like it should. I don't see anything wrong with wanting better duck habitat, it would be like me saying its wrong for people wanting better fishing habitat. It's just a matter of what you like better. Either way the ecosystem will benefit some sort of wildlife, just a matter of which one you want to chase

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by cmcnabb

You like trout fishing like I like to hunt ducks. I don't mind fishing, but it just don't do for me what hunting ducks and geese does. I'm not saying I want the ecosystem destroyed, just fresher. Saltwater destroys marsh IMO and makes it good for fishing and that's it. Sabine reserve is a prime example. Before Rita, we caught bass in the canals and the duck hunting was great. After Rita the crabbing and shrimping was great, but the duck hunting wasn't what it was due to lack of food. You could kill in certain spots, but it just didn't hold ducks like it should. I don't see anything wrong with wanting better duck habitat, it would be like me saying its wrong for people wanting better fishing habitat. It's just a matter of what you like better. Either way the ecosystem will benefit some sort of wildlife, just a matter of which one you want to chase

That is fact my friend. Saltwater destroys fresh and brackish marshes, which are prime duck habitat. You know, I love fishing AND hunting, but we aren't going to have either if the saltwater intrusion continues. The major point of that intrusion is Calcasieu Pass.

I don't look at it as wanting better habitat for this or that, though. I look at as, its going to make the entire ecosystem healthier, because lets face it, this is not what this ecosystem is naturally. Of course, it depends on what you look at as "natural". We have records of what this ecosystem was like before human intervention, and it was fresh.

Oh and just an interesting thought, can you imagine what Calcasieu Lake was like when it was fresh? I bet there was some hogmolly bass in there.

[swamp snorkler]

Originally Posted by cmcnabb

You like trout fishing like I like to hunt ducks. I don't mind fishing, but it just don't do for me what hunting ducks and geese does. I'm not saying I want the ecosystem destroyed, just fresher. Saltwater destroys marsh IMO and makes it good for fishing and that's it. Sabine reserve is a prime example. Before Rita, we caught bass in the canals and the duck hunting was great. After Rita the crabbing and shrimping was great, but the duck hunting wasn't what it was due to lack of food. You could kill in certain spots, but it just didn't hold ducks like it should. I don't see anything wrong with wanting better duck habitat, it would be like me saying its wrong for people wanting better fishing habitat. It's just a matter of what you like better. Either way the ecosystem will benefit some sort of wildlife, just a matter of which one you want to chase

Quoted For The Troof

[Spunt Drag]

If every trout in that lake left and went to Tejas and VBay, I wouldn't a **** if it meant better duck hunting.

[Top Dawg]

Screw trout. Keep the marshes fresh. The way they were meant to be. Put weirs up at the jetties and keeP it fresh all the way to the pogie plant

[mstulb]

No structure could ever be put at any point of our shipping channel. Absolutely way to much marine comerce coming in and out. A structure would only dely there already very tight schedules these captains must maintain. No way possible The Port Authority would not allow any structure to interfere with tanker transportation...


If you want your marsh to be fresh water structures can be installed on your propertys waterways to help revent saltwater invasion-

[MathGeek]

This is a tough call. In addition to the actual fishing in big lake, cutting off the estuary and marshes will also reduce the whole production of shrimp and crabs and oysters in Cameron parish, as well as the availability of nursery grounds for many important salt water species, so the whole productivity of the near shore Gulf of Mexico would be expected to decline.

This is not returning the system to a natural state where there were large brackish areas supporting production of oysters, crabs, shrimp and nursery areas for redfish, flounder, drum, specks, etc. It is making a much sharper dividing line of salinity far further south than one has ever existed.

I haven't seen anything definitive on this, but it also seems like an effective saltwater barrier at Calcasieu pass would likely restrict the volume of ships passing through, slowing the pace of ship traffic and increasing the costs. Building and operating the saltwater barrier that far south also seems tremendously expensive. Who is paying for its construction? Who is paying for its operation? What will be the economic impact of reducing the potential shipping traffic?

What will the economic impact be on the Lake Charles area from turning Big Lake from an inshore salt/brackish fishery into an exclusive freshwater fishery? How many jobs will be lost?

[Top Dawg]

Originally Posted by mstulb

No structure could ever be put at any point of our shipping channel. Absolutely way to much marine comerce coming in and out. A structure would only dely there already very tight schedules these captains must maintain. No way possible The Port Authority would not allow any structure to interfere with tanker transportation...


If you want your marsh to be fresh water structures can be installed on your propertys waterways to help revent saltwater invasion-

I know this. Just a joke. They could always dam up big lake and leave the channel

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

This is a tough call. In addition to the actual fishing in big lake, cutting off the estuary and marshes will also reduce the whole production of shrimp and crabs and oysters in Cameron parish, as well as the availability of nursery grounds for many important salt water species, so the whole productivity of the near shore Gulf of Mexico would be expected to decline.

This is not returning the system to a natural state where there were large brackish areas supporting production of oysters, crabs, shrimp and nursery areas for redfish, flounder, drum, specks, etc. It is making a much sharper dividing line of salinity far further south than one has ever existed.

I haven't seen anything definitive on this, but it also seems like an effective saltwater barrier at Calcasieu pass would likely restrict the volume of ships passing through, slowing the pace of ship traffic and increasing the costs. Building and operating the saltwater barrier that far south also seems tremendously expensive. Who is paying for its construction? Who is paying for its operation? What will be the economic impact of reducing the potential shipping traffic?

What will the economic impact be on the Lake Charles area from turning Big Lake from an inshore salt/brackish fishery into an exclusive freshwater fishery? How many jobs will be lost?

I was waiting for someone to point all that out. Those were my exact thoughts this morning when I started the thread. State would be in charge of operation as far as I know, with the money coming from BP fines and such from the oil spill, at least that's what I've heard. Like I said, its part of the coastal master plan, and like other parts of it, I don't find it to be extremely well thought out. This while ecologically important to the health of the system, could do a lot of damage economically if not done right.

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[eman]

Originally Posted by Smalls

I was waiting for someone to point all that out. Those were my exact thoughts this morning when I started the thread. State would be in charge of operation as far as I know, with the money coming from BP fines and such from the oil spill, at least that's what I've heard. Like I said, its part of the coastal master plan, and like other parts of it, I don't find it to be extremely well thought out. This while ecologically important to the health of the system, could do a lot of damage economically if not done right.

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Greenies don't care what it cost or how many it affects or number of jobs lost.

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by eman

Greenies don't care what it cost or how many it affects or number of jobs lost.

Not trying to start a fight or anything, but I work in coastal restoration and majority of the people that work in this field are not "greenies" in the sense the term is most often used. This is something anyone that lives in coastal Louisiana should be concerned with. Believe all you want that its a crock of **** that the coast is disappearing, but it is. Are all the methods employed well thought out, no. But to lump everyone into that "greenies" category is just not right.

Sorry, that strikes a nerve with me because it's very aggravating to be referred to in the same breath as some of the more extreme groups that don't do anything but yell and cause trouble for the people trying to so something to save our coast.

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[MathGeek]

I agree with Smalls. Salt water intrusion is a real problem that will rob marsh and coastline in the long term, causing tremendous economic impact and job loss if reasonable steps are not taken to remediate and slow the problem.

Yes there are a lot of ecofreaks that support radical programs regardless of economic impacts or job losses. The global warming crowd trying to shut down all new petroleum drilling and refining are a good example.

In contrast to the myth of anthropogenic global warming, saltwater intrusion and resulting loss of habitat and coastline is a real problem with tremendously convincing scientific support. When remediation steps are considered, considering the impact on local economies and recreational fisheries both in the short and long terms are important, as well as considering the construction and maintenance costs. This is not a "we must fix the problem no matter the cost" situation, but rather, "let's weight the costs and benefits and impacts of various plans of action and inaction."

I would prefer to see other options explored more thoroughly before becoming enthusiastic about a saltwater barrier at Calcasieu Pass. How much more difficult would it be to levee off the whole ship channel with a few weirs between the channel and the east and west sections of Big Lake to keep a historical salinity gradient in Big Lake more comparable to the brackish status from the 70's or 80's? Or perhaps a salinity gradient from an earlier decade would better preserve the marsh without hindering shipping and creating an artificial and relatively unproductive freshwater system. Alternatively, Big Lake could be left salty and the levee and weir system be shored up and made more hurricane resistant along the east and west banks, sort of fortifying the current approach.

[eman]

Smalls and MG, i did not lump either of you in the catagory of greenies.
I have seen the damage they will do to a fishery and an economy just to say they saved a frikin minnow. i know that we in La loose more land in one day than any other estuary in the world. And i am not sure that anything we do now to save it is not just pizzing in the wind. A salt water barrier on big lake will help the duck hunters and May save some of the private marsh. But how much effect will it have on the economy ? Not just talking about the many folks who guide , shrimp , oyster etc . But if you slow the shipping lanes down that makes a big economic slow down. A barrier may not be the way to fix the problem.
anything you do to alter the lake and the marsh around it is going to ruin someones income. Don't think the fisherman ,oystermen , shrimpers have enough money or clout to fight big oil.

[Smalls]

Well I will say this much, they don't have any sort of design yet. I actually think, last I heard anyway, they were gonna try something that ships could actually pass over with no real disruption to their trip. Its going to be interesting.

Let me also say this, everyone makes the private Marsh arguement. And I completely understand that, but the only way to protect the coast is through protecting private Marsh. I think something like 95% of the Marsh in Cameron parish is privately owned.

And I appologize eman. I wasn't necessarily directing that statement at you, people just tend to do that a lot. It is truly aggravating.

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[hunter44i8]

Well i dont know what to think about this i like catching both species of fish but i prefer Bass fishing i am not a hunter so that is not a concern to me but i do know that i dont want my property to become costal in the future and i dont know how long it would take for the area to become fresh and the bass habitat to get to where you can fish for them there but i think it could grow some good ones in the future but if i get to it it dosent mater either way and i dont know how it would affect jobs but i know that the job market already sux and we dont need to make it worse so i guess i dont realy have a side on this a lot of good argument both ways and i respect every ones opinion

[Jadams]

This will never happen