To force break a dog or not

[rainy_day]

I have a good lab pup (6months)
Who is doing well with descipline and retrieves well for fun. I want to step it up and was looking for the pros & cons on force breaking a retriever..

[Finfeatherfur]

Well, I am not a professional, but I have always had better performance from a dog that was forced.

If you are lucky, Ducktricster will chime in on this one as he and his dad have forgotten more about training labs than you and I put together.

Also, join the HRC club and they have a chapter in LC and Crowley that can be a big help for training a young dog.

[simplepeddler]

Best done by someone else in my opinion.
but that is just my opinion.

[Jordan]

might wanna PM Raymond... he does it as a side job i think !!!

Huntin' fool has a couple of posts here... might wanna do a search

[rainy_day]

I am old school I trained my hunting dogs many years ago and never forced
corrected them and they did fine I think I'm going the old fashion way and we'll see what happens..What's the difference if they find the duck and bring it back and are in controlled...If the old fashion way doesn't work can you drop back and force break them....

[meathauler]

It seem that there are several people that have fooled around with dogs on this site. Dogs trainers are like horse trainers in a sence (Everybodys way is the best way.) I trained dogs to sell, for clients and ran dogs in field trials for 12 years. Every dog that I trained was forced except for my first one.
You asked for pros and cons. Dogs that are forced do things you tell them to do. Dogs that are not do things they want to do.
In my opinion and the opinion of 90% of professionals it is a must to force a dog to be a efficient trainable dog. Forcing a dog will give you the basics to build on when trying to do casting and holding drills. A dog that is forced will go on command no matter what the conditions are and the situation is. Many people will say my dog goes no matter what without being forced. The dog is going because he wants to and not because you tellling him to go. When he decided he had enough he will not go. thats where the forcing come in.
You first do obediance, then force and hold, then simple drills to a pile and so on. He will begin to give you trouble if he has not been forced. He may give you problems even though he is forced but by reminding him of pain compliance forcing, he will begin doing on command as expected. The non forced dog will then realize that he does not have to do it and will escape the things that are not fun to him. Those things are handling drills and running blinds. that is a whole diferent world without a good foundation. He will do marks all day long since that is what is bred into him. Without forcing it becomes work and he is likely to shut down.
Bottom line is that most meat dogs are not forced and most dogs that are fully trained to run blinds and handle well are forced.
If you plan on going through with the full coarse of training him do yourself a favor and force him or have him forced. If you want a basic hunting dog just teach him good obediance and bring lots of rocks in the bling. good luck and remember there is dogs that is the exception to the rule but not many.

[cajunforeman]

Do your self a favor and force the dog.

[meathauler]

not impossible to force a older dog but it sure is much harder and it takes longer. Kind of like that saying you cant teach a old dog new tricks. def not for the beginner

[rainy_day]

Thanks for the advice...It looks like if you want a hard working gun dog force him. If you want a good dog to help you find down birds don't force..What would be the best age to start force fetching,

[meathauler]

I think you said it is 6 mos old. That usually is a good age. Make sure his baby teeth have fallen out. He will bobble the dummy in his mouth and fight the hold if not. You should be safe at 6 mos. Remember forcing is the hardest part IMO since you have to read the dog to know when to put more pressure and when to back off. But several books or just hire someone to just force him and go watch as much as possible. He will give you pointers on what to do next with signals and all.

[Feesherman]

Originally Posted by rainy_day

Thanks for the advice...It looks like if you want a hard working gun dog force him. If you want a good dog to help you find down birds don't force..What would be the best age to start force fetching,

At least 8 months. You cannot start force until all their adult teeth have come in.